Deca/Test with regard to 5AR

[DiabeticDynamo]

Stats
Age:27
Height:6'3
Weight: 232

This is a mildly difficult question to answer scientifically, but I am interested in any input. It is in regard to hairloss so, I should preface this by saying the following:

I know many people do not mind losing hair, I do.
I realize that if I am predisposed to losing it (which I am), I will, eventually. What I am trying to do is maintain it, while maximizing my lifting potential. If this is a difficult concept, don't worry about posting. My questions are based on how 5ARs will react to Test and Deca together.

I have done 1 cycle in my life, 500mgs of Test combined with finasteride, which helped me maintain my hairline with great success. My next cycle is going to be
Deca 400/Test E 300 for 10 weeks. I have heard that finasteride is a bad thing to take when taking Deca because it would block the conversion of nandrolone to DHN in tissues such as the scalp and the prostate, resulting in hairloss and BPH, which is what I am trying to avoid taking Deca.

However, if I dont take finasteride, I will my have a higher DHT level because of the test. So here are my questions:

1. Is this true about Deca causing an actual increase in hairloss when combined with finasteride? I realize that alone, it is fine with hair, but alone it causes deca dick among other negative externalities.

2. Would Saw Palmetto be a good alternative? It does work much the same as finasteride, but I am wonder about the 5AR aspect of its effects.

3. Is there an amount of Test, that would equal my natural test out when taking Deca without taking so much that increases my natural test, thus increases DHT levels, and hairloss?

Any all information would be great, I have researched this a great deal, but can not find any information that specifically relates to this question. Thanks again.

[DiabeticDynamo]

I was afraid of this.....
bump

[pip_squeek]

i am taking proscar with the same cycle only i am using sust250 with decca so far so good. running 400mg of decca is a bad idea always run more test than decca eg 400mg test/300mg decca or sumfin like dis. end the decca one week before ending the test

[DiabeticDynamo]

I am wondering how your cycle is going? I was told that taking proscar/finasteride with deca will actually be worse than taking nothing at all, perhaps because of the sust, this is not true? Has your hair been falling out more than normal/or at all since the start? How long are you into it? THANKS

[DiabeticDynamo]

Bump

[Dude-Man]

Nandrolone is about .4 times as androgenic as DHT, and in the scalp, it's slightly more androgenic than testosterone. DHN is the least androgenic of these. There's no concrete way to say exactly where the balance is, but i think if you're running testosterone and deca, you're probably better off with proscar (dutasteride) than without it, unless you're running a buttload more deca than test. This hypothesis is based on the assumption that the rate of converstion from test to DHT is proportionate to the rate of deca to DHN.

[DiabeticDynamo]

Thanks a bunch for your informative answer. So my question then, boils down to this: Without taking into consideration anything but hairloss, would I be better off taking

500mgs of Cyp with Finasteride, Nizoral, and Minoxodil

or

500mgs Cyp, 400 Deca, with Nizoral and Minoxodil

Again, which would do best for keeping my hair?

Best case scenario, is it possible to prevent all DHT formation when on either? Or should I expect to save a large portion of the hair I would have otherwise lost without it? Thanks

[DiabeticDynamo]

bump

[johnmacdan]

You can get hair to grow back on AAS????

[Dog-Slime]

I would run a low dose of test 125-200mgs/week or I would choose a different compound. I dont think anyone really knows for sure how this whole test + deca + fina/duta thing works. If you are set on doing it I would do as Dude-Man said.

[hugovsilva]

Nandrolone is about .4 times as androgenic as DHT, and in the scalp, it's slightly more androgenic than testosterone. DHN is the least androgenic of these. There's no concrete way to say exactly where the balance is, but i think if you're running testosterone and deca, you're probably better off with proscar (dutasteride) than without it, unless you're running a buttload more deca than test. This hypothesis is based on the assumption that the rate of converstion from test to DHT is proportionate to the rate of deca to DHN.

Enough said.

[DiabeticDynamo]

Enough said.

Well, not really. The question still remains; which cycle would be best?

One that include Deca with no finasteride, or one without deca and no finasteride.

Thanks.

BTW, when you say I should run a low dosage of test 125-200, were you referring that with deca, or without? Also, in your opinion, if I am doing say
200test and 400deca, would you think finasteride should be used or should not?

I realize that these questions are all relative, the answers are less than concrete, but acquiring as much information as possible is paramount to me. Thanks again, everyone for all the input.

[chest6]

I've actually heard of a few that have taken dutasteride with test/deca and their hair didnt "fly out" like some state it would. They think no dutast with deca involved is a myth.

Really only know til you try..but then again as you know, once hair is gone, its pretty much gone for good

[helium3]

ok lets see.


with these cycles its possible hairloss will occur.
first cycle:

500mg test e/cyp

400mg deca.run dutas or finastride with this cycle.

2nd cycle:

600mg deca

a maintainence dose of 150-250mg test. run fina or dutas.

to be honest i could go on all day with cycles,but in the end its waht you are willing to risk and the possible sides that may occur

for instance i ran 600mg deca for my last cycle and gained 20lbs im in week 3 of pct,my weight gain is now 15lbs.no hairloss to speak of and i didnt run dutas.its just that for some labido issues would have been a problem

u can run dutas or fina with anycycle,it may hinder your gains slightly due to a reduction in dht.but its safe.

[czarr]

DiabeticDynamo did you ever get the answer you were looking for? I too have been doing alot of research on this subject and I ran across this article.

Seems to be the best info so far...../shrug , you can decide.

Article is based on running finasteride with DECA and TEST.

Question:
"I heard you can't use finasteride with deca"
Without fail, you'll hear this statement at least once a month.

First off, let me preface this by saying that this is true, in certain contexts.
However, I'm an advocate of including testosterone in every cycle, so my explanation is with the assumption that one will be using nandrolone in addition to testosterone

For those that do not know, testosterone converts to DHT via the 5 alpha reductase enzyme. DHT is far more androgenic than testosterone and is the main contributor to MPB in those genetically predisposed.

Finasteride is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor, and therefore limits the conversion of testosterone to DHT via competitive inhibition.

Nandrolone itself is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor (although it yields DHN in the process). So less DHT is produced if nandrolone is present. Also, DHN is much less androgenic than nandrolone and much less androgenic than DHT. So, finasteride with deca (nandrolone) should both work to reduce DHT levels, and since finasteride will inhibit 5a reductase, it'll also keep levels of DHN lower too.

The misconception that deca with finasteride is a bad combination stems from the the days when deca only cycles were more common (often referred to as the days before jason updated the AR homepage cycles ) If one were running a deca only cycle (or any deca cycle without test), then finasteride would be a poor choice, because DHN is less androgenic than nandrolone. However, since we're assuming test to be included in a deca cycle, and both test and DHT are far more androgenic than nandrolone, if your goal is preventing the formation of the most androgenic compounds, then both deca and finasteride work together to reduce DHT formation.

To sum things up, if you're running a test + deca cycle and are worried about MPB (and you're susceptible), then including finasteride is a far better option than NOT including it, although the nandrolone will help to reduce DHT formation on its own to some extent.

This doesn't touch on the many positive effects of DHT (libido, muscle hardness, decreased SHBG and therefore increased bioavailable AAS).....this is only in the context of preventing hairloss.

[fLgAtOr]

Interesting.

I'd also add that there is no reason not to include topicals along with your cycle/finasteride. They can only beneft, and I haven't heard of any interactions.

Worst case senario, run a TRT dose of test and up the deca (like Dog-Slime mentioned).

[skipp]

IMO you should just run duta off cycle for long enough to regrow lost hair. Take flag's advice and get into topicals while on cycle and discontinue the 5r inhibitor. You'll be fighting to keep your hair, but you'll have some to lose because of the off cycle treatment.

I've gone through the EXACT same situation as you, did the above, and am happy with more hair than I had before I started cycling.