Please critique my training split

[wantmoremass]

Hey guys,

I want some feedback on my workout split. I am kind of caught in the same old routine, and looking to change it up. I also think I might be overtaining. My goal is really to build mass.

I typically train 2 days on, and 1 day off, so 4 or 5 days per week depending on the week. I do low intensity cardio after my workout about a couple times a week and usuallya bout 30minutes on one off-day per week.

I have my split broken out into 5 workouts:

1. Chest (all sets 6-10 reps):
4 sets bench press or dumbbell press
4 sets incline bench or dumbbell press
4 sets decline press
4 sets incline flys
4 sets flat or machine flys

2. Back (all sets 6-10 reps):
30 reps (as many sets as it takes) wide grip pull ups
30 reps close grip pull ups
4 sets wide grip exercise (either barbell row, or wide grip seated row)
4 sets close grip exercise (seated cable row, or close grip pull down)
4 sets back extensions
Sometimes do deadlifts, but not lately cause of an injured right knee

3. Shoulders (all sets 6-10 reps):
4 sets dumbbell or barbell press
4 sets machine press
4 sets lateral raises
4 sets rear deltoid raises
4-5 sets shrugs

4. Arms (all sets 6-10 reps):
4 sets each of 3 exercises for each of biceps, triceps

5. Legs (all sets 6-10 reps except calfs - 12-14 reps):
4 sets leg press or squat
4 sets romanian deadlifts
4 sets leg extension
4 sets leg curls
4 sets standing calf raise
4 sets seated calf raise

then start over from 1.

Questions that I have:

1. Should I be doing more compound movements?
2. Should I be doing less sets?
3. Should I get rid of arm day altogether in place of compound movements where they're incorporated (I've tried splitting bi's in with back, tris in with chest, but find I can't do as much with them as they're already fatigued).

Any feedback would be much appreciated. More stats and stuff in my pics thread (http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=318203)

Cheers
WMM

[topnotch]

I think your gonna seriously over train like that bro...way too much work...you grow outside of the gym, not in the gym

[sonnygll]

If we are voting for most in need of a dip/pullup belt, you'd have my vote for sure.

[asvt]

Thats some serious over training I usually only do 10-12 sets for big muscle groups and 6-8 sets for small muscle and make reasonable progress but i have recently changed to 3 full body workouts a week. which is only 3 sets per muscle group in each workout so a total of only 9 sets per muscle in a week and I have been making great progress with this. This is the workout i do and i only do the first 3 workouts and leave the fourth just for personel preference. I workout Mon,Wed and Fri. Hope this helps.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/work...rcount=32&s2r=

[wantmoremass]

If we are voting for most in need of a dip/pullup belt, you'd have my vote for sure.

Care to elaborate?

[wantmoremass]

working on a new training split. thanks for the advice here and on pm's bros

[Kingweb50]

Care to elaborate?

He is saying since you are doing min of 30 pull ups per set you need to get a belt to attach plates to it so you can get to your 6-10 rep range you use.

[sonnygll]

Yep, that's what I mean. Just at least getting it under 12, but doing the same rep range as everything else would be ideal.

[topnotch]

When he said 30 reps, he said in parentheses that as many sets as it takes...for example if he can only get 10 reps, then he does 3 sets of 10...but he might get them in one set i dunno

[RuhlFreak55]

don't listen to this shit about overtraining...i've about had enough of you pansies telling everyone they're overtraining all the time....it's just preposterous....i do more sets for EVERY BODYPART than he does and i'm most definatlely not overtraining......just because all of you can't handle any workload at all doesn't mean that other can't

[topnotch]

Ruhl, just b/c you can handle that type of workload doesn't mean that everybody can...the majority of people in the gym can't handle that type w/out over training unless they're just not lifting w/ any intensity...that's why you can go to the gym, and pick out guys that work for 2 hours at a time, and they're the same size this year as last year

[sonnygll]

don't listen to this shit about overtraining...i've about had enough of you pansies telling everyone they're overtraining all the time....it's just preposterous....i do more sets for EVERY BODYPART than he does and i'm most definatlely not overtraining......just because all of you can't handle any workload at all doesn't mean that other can't

What are you doing though? All isolation and machines I bet. Yea I could do 100 sets of cable tricep kickbacks too.

There is overtraining and I do it on purpose sometimes. I wear myself down, to wear I'm tired and can't even stand the thought of going to the gym. Then I do a deloading/recovery phase. It works pretty good. Not to mention any program that's worth 2 $h1ts will tire you at eventually anyway. Then you do recovery.

[RuhlFreak55]

What are you doing though? All isolation and machines I bet. Yea I could do 100 sets of cable tricep kickbacks too.

There is overtraining and I do it on purpose sometimes. I wear myself down, to wear I'm tired and can't even stand the thought of going to the gym. Then I do a deloading/recovery phase. It works pretty good. Not to mention any program that's worth 2 $h1ts will tire you at eventually anyway. Then you do recovery.

rofl....i maybe do half machines...depends on the muscle group and my mood of course....and no i do all the major compound movements....bench, squat, deadlift etc

[topnotch]

rofl....i maybe do half machines...depends on the muscle group and my mood of course....and no i do all the major compound movements....bench, squat, deadlift etc

Well like i said some people have the genetics and can handle doing that much volume...but the majority really can't do that

[sonnygll]

Yea, it must be a genetic thing.

[wantmoremass]

Yep, that's what I mean. Just at least getting it under 12, but doing the same rep range as everything else would be ideal.

thanks for clarifying. i actually meant i do sets of whatever i can push (or in this case pull) out til i get 30 overall. last week it was 9-7-6-5-4. i definitely can't do 30 in a row - although 9 is more than i used to be able to do :-) thanks for the discussion. thinking about going through the slingshot training plan for the next couple months.

[WelshWarrior]

Why not try some of the ones stickied in the workout section?

5x5 over the past 3 months helped me make some great gains. Now I'm experimenting with 10x10.

[wantmoremass]

thanks Welsh, will check those out too.

[WelshWarrior]

No worries - I've only recently found them and they are great at shaking up what has become routine.

Also, the earlier post of your workout was overtraining or undertraining, i.e. you'll either overtrain, or more likely, you are not training hard enough on the lifts that count - bench/squat/deads.

[topnotch]

One of the biggest thing is to find what works for you...start keeping a training log...just take a notebook w/ you or anything...try one program out for 8 weeks, then switch it...you'll see within 8 weeks or earlier if it's working for you or not...w/ a log you can go back and look over and see what kind of improvements you made...i would recommend switching your workouts up every 6-8 weeks for sure though...once you find a few programs that work for you, then you can rotate them as you like to keep shocking the muscles into growth...some programs may work great for others and not do crap for you...everybody is different...after awhile, you can write your own programs, and decide how to incorporate different things in your workouts for even greater gains

[wantmoremass]

thanks for the feedback guys.