Advice on an all-Anavar cycle?

[pimpdawgin]

Before I get ragged on for being a complete rookie, let me clarify my reasons.
1) I am not looking to put on much weight, as I am not a competitive BB. I wrestle, just recreationally, so I want to stay in my weight class, but be lean, strong, have good cardio, etc.
2) Apparently Anavar doesn't aromatise, thus no possibility of gyno, correct?
3) Low impact on HPTA, which is good because I don't want to compromise natural production.

Ok. Here are my questions.

1) If I used an Anavar only cycle, what PCT should I take, in order to restore lipid profile, natural production.
2) Is it recommended to take anti-e's, even though Anavar shouldn't have any gyno potential?

Thanks for the help.

[hugovsilva]

If your goals are so modest why not try to achieve them naturally?

Stats?

[Kale]

Age, height, weight, previous cycle experience, Anavar dosage and length of cycle ?

[domeyeahaigh]

i personally do not like that idea man but what do i know

[Johny-too-small]

1) 2 weeks nolva @ 20 mg/ed
2) no.

[pimpdawgin]

Age, height, weight, previous cycle experience, Anavar dosage and length of cycle ?

26, 5'9'', 180 lbs. currently, as my weight fluctuates depending on upcoming tournaments, etc., NO previous cycle experience.

How long on/off should a cycle like this be done for?

[pimpdawgin]

If your goals are so modest why not try to achieve them naturally?

Stats?

Sure, my goals may be modest compared to other people on this forum, but I don't think it should be an all or nothing proposition. I am considering juice, but want to do a little bit in order to minimize any side efffects and give myself a little boost. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is thinking along these lines.

[pimpdawgin]

i personally do not like that idea man but what do i know

Can you tell me why. Seriously, I want to know if I am making a critical error in my line of thought here.
Is there another way to cycle with a minimum potential for gyno, and other unwanted sides? As far as I know, which isn't much admittedly, this seems to be the best way, as anavar doesn't aromatize, is mild on the liver, and has been shown in numerous studies to increase muscle mass, strength, reduce fat in patients with HIV/burns/and other similar symptoms. SO why shouldn't it work for a healthy individual as well?

[Conservative]

I wrestled in college. A lot of the guys take Test Suspension sublingual tablets, which you can find online. But they mainly take a Winny/tbol only cycle. Their bodies would literally transform in a couple of weeks.

I know a lot of these guys here don't recommend orals only, but the source was a sports medicine doctor and he did extensive blood work on us.

I will warn you that you must take extra time and stretch while taking. The Winny will kill your joints.

I managed to succeed greatly in wrestling while not taking any roids, winning 2nd in Nationals. Although it will give a great advantage to your opponents if they're taking and you're not.

[Renesis]

With Anavar you most likely aren't going to bet getting any sides, maybe insane pumps that can become painful but as far as that goes nothing really. Also for a PCT Captain dominate reccomended to me HCG for 5days and Aromasin for 3weeks.

[pimpdawgin]

I wrestled in college. A lot of the guys take Test Suspension sublingual tablets, which you can find online. But they mainly take a Winny/tbol only cycle. Their bodies would literally transform in a couple of weeks.

I know a lot of these guys here don't recommend orals only, but the source was a sports medicine doctor and he did extensive blood work on us.

I will warn you that you must take extra time and stretch while taking. The Winny will kill your joints.

I managed to succeed greatly in wrestling while not taking any roids, winning 2nd in Nationals. Although it will give a great advantage to your opponents if they're taking and you're not.

Yeah, I've heard that before with the joints. Like I said, I'm trying to minimize, if possible, any adverse effects, so no winny for me. Does anyone know if Anavar does anything similar to the joints?
As for wrestling, I know what you mean. Juice alone won't make you good, but if the guy knows what he's doing and juicing, what makes for a tough opponent. I've wrestled/grappled with guys like that before, and it's a war.

[Johny-too-small]

HCG for 5days and Aromasin for 3weeks.

Thats overkill. You wont get a total shutdown from anavar, and I doubt you'll even get more than mildly suppressed. jmo.

[pimpdawgin]

1) 2 weeks nolva @ 20 mg/ed
2) no.

Just wondering. Nolvadex is a SERM. Why should one take Nolvadex if Anavar can't aromatise into estrogen? Is it true that Anavar absolutely positively will not give you gyno, water bloat and other estrogen related issues? If so, why isn't everyone on Anavar, aside from the higher cost?

[pwrlftr2]

The worst side effect from Anavar is what it can do to your cholesterol values. It can absolutely destroy your good cholesterol so make sure you use the flush kind of niacin when you take Anavar. I did several cycles of Anavar before I ever used test. Now I only use painless test prop and anavar. The sides are very small and the strength gains are terrific. I am a powerlifter but I don't see why you can't do something similiar with bodybuilding. These two drug put on lean muscle without a lot of bloat or huge weight gain. With prop I notice that the gains last much longer also. It all depends what your goals are but AS usage does not have to be excessive to be effective. If you are doing anavar only I would recommend no less than 50mg/day for eight weeks. Make sure you take care of your liver on it. The only drug I ever stacked it with in tablet form was primo tabs. Primo is also mild on the body and the liver but you have to take in about 150mg/day for any real gains. The test prop/anavar cycle is the best I've ever used. But then test prop is the only injectible I have ever used or ever would. Just my thoughts and experience, hope it helps.

[bulldawg_28]

Before I get ragged on for being a complete rookie, let me clarify my reasons.
1) I am not looking to put on much weight, as I am not a competitive BB. I wrestle, just recreationally, so I want to stay in my weight class, but be lean, strong, have good cardio, etc.
2) Apparently Anavar doesn't aromatise, thus no possibility of gyno, correct?
3) Low impact on HPTA, which is good because I don't want to compromise natural production.

Ok. Here are my questions.

1) If I used an Anavar only cycle, what PCT should I take, in order to restore lipid profile, natural production.
2) Is it recommended to take anti-e's, even though Anavar shouldn't have any gyno potential?

Thanks for the help.

I would take at least 10 grams of fish oil ed during and post cycle. I'd also add some other cholesterol supps such as niacin, garlic, policosanol, etc.

[Johny-too-small]

Just wondering. Nolvadex is a SERM. Why should one take Nolvadex if Anavar can't aromatise into estrogen? Is it true that Anavar absolutely positively will not give you gyno, water bloat and other estrogen related issues? If so, why isn't everyone on Anavar, aside from the higher cost?

20mg Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels 150%. Its not all about blocking estrogen, its about recovering your HPTA from a suppressed/shutdown state.

Anavar is an oral steroid. Orals such as anavar are liver toxic and pose other health risks. Injectable anabolics are the best bang for the buck, imo, with exception of EQ, lol.

[pimpdawgin]

The worst side effect from Anavar is what it can do to your cholesterol values. It can absolutely destroy your good cholesterol so make sure you use the flush kind of niacin when you take Anavar. I did several cycles of Anavar before I ever used test. Now I only use painless test prop and anavar. The sides are very small and the strength gains are terrific. I am a powerlifter but I don't see why you can't do something similiar with bodybuilding. These two drug put on lean muscle without a lot of bloat or huge weight gain. With prop I notice that the gains last much longer also. It all depends what your goals are but AS usage does not have to be excessive to be effective. If you are doing anavar only I would recommend no less than 50mg/day for eight weeks. Make sure you take care of your liver on it. The only drug I ever stacked it with in tablet form was primo tabs. Primo is also mild on the body and the liver but you have to take in about 150mg/day for any real gains. The test prop/anavar cycle is the best I've ever used. But then test prop is the only injectible I have ever used or ever would. Just my thoughts and experience, hope it helps.

Thanks for all the responses. I have a couple of further inquiries.
1) I know that Anavar can mess up lipid profile (colesterol values), but how bad is it relative to other steroids?
2) What is the "flush kind of Niacin"? How is it different from regular niacin?
3) I am looking to stay away from any test, be it prop or otherwise, since I know I am prone to gyno, and don't want the other associated sides.
4) The dose of no less than 50 mg/day seems to be a bit high compared to the literature I have read. Most studies, and the pharmaceutical labelling sheet indicate an adult dosage of 20 mg/day. Keep in mind, I am not looking to bulk. Mainly staying lean, retaining existing muscle mass and whatever modest gains I can make is all I am looking for.

[hugovsilva]

1) Yes. Bad.
2) Don't know.
3) There are AI's you know?
4) Real life advice. 50mg is low.

[notanormalgent]

I've run several Anavar only cycles with great success. Just finish off the cycle with 3 weeks of Nolvadex and you're set.

Gent

[Johny-too-small]

The dose of no less than 50 mg/day seems to be a bit high compared to the literature I have read. Most studies, and the pharmaceutical labelling sheet indicate an adult dosage of 20 mg/day. Keep in mind, I am not looking to bulk. Mainly staying lean, retaining existing muscle mass and whatever modest gains I can make is all I am looking for.

less than 50 is weak. Imo, 60-80.

[ecto9]

You want the kind of niacin that is not timed released. I take the Nicotinic Acid form of niacin.

[spidernbutterfly]

I only ask as I plan on using var in my upcoming cycle.

You want the kind of niacin that is not timed released. I take the Nicotinic Acid form of niacin.

[pimpdawgin]

less than 50 is weak. Imo, 60-80.

OK. But is it a good idea to jump right into a dose like that or should I gradually increase it up to that?

[pimpdawgin]

I've run several Anavar only cycles with great success. Just finish off the cycle with 3 weeks of Nolvadex and you're set.

Gent

How long were your cycles and how many have you run at what dose Anavar?
At what dose of Nolva?
Should an AI be run as well?
And the 3 weeks are after you're finished the Anavar or during the end phase?
Are gains kept easily with Anavar after you've ceased taking it?

[BuffDJ]

I have been pretty interested in doing Anavar myself at 80mg/ed. But was very interested on the most effective time frame for the cycle. Is it recommened to go short med or long as far as weeks on cycle.
Buff

[pimpdawgin]

In addition to giving this thread a much-needed bump, I've found some reassuring threads on the 'net. Apparently there are plenty of other people who either have done or are looking into doing a 'var-only cycle.
Here they are, they have some interesting content



http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=131511

[Panzerfaust]

Thats overkill. You wont get a total shutdown from anavar, and I doubt you'll even get more than mildly suppressed. jmo.

I agree, I bet he doesn't see much in terms of HPTA suppresion.


Pimpdawgin:

You could run it 6-8wks tops 50-75mg ED w/ Flush Free Niacin, Milk Thistle or another form of Liver support.

Nolva or Toremefine Citrate for PCT.

Possible sides: Upset stomach, back pumps

[Panzerfaust]

OK. But is it a good idea to jump right into a dose like that or should I gradually increase it up to that?

Start at 60mg and bump after 2wks if you feel the need.

[pimpdawgin]

I agree, I bet he doesn't see much in terms of HPTA suppresion.


Pimpdawgin:

You could run it 6-8wks tops 50-75mg ED w/ Flush Free Niacin, Milk Thistle or another form of Liver support.

Nolva or Toremefine Citrate for PCT.

Possible sides: Upset stomach, back pumps

I haven't really seen Toremifene Citrate used in PCT's, nor am I familiar with it, aside from that it's a SERM. Would throwing in an AI in addition to a SERM be a good idea, to be on the safe side?

And according to the thread I dig up (which has some good tips), N-Acetyl-Cysteine, Vitamins C and E, R-Alpha Lipoic Acid and Flax Oil are also good to have on hand to help with the liver and lipid situations.

Lastly, I hope that the ANavar doesn't suppress the HPTA too much, but even though it is less suppressive than test, etc., I have read that it is still fairly suppressive and not to be disregarded in terms of PCT.

[Manpretty]

nova increases your natty test production.....and why would you use an AI thats just stupid var dosent aromitase......its anavar dude......run 20mg of nova for three weeks and be done with it

[Manpretty]

20mg Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels 150%. Its not all about blocking estrogen, its about recovering your HPTA from a suppressed/shutdown state.

Anavar is an oral steroid. Orals such as anavar are liver toxic and pose other health risks. Injectable anabolics are the best bang for the buck, imo, with exception of EQ, lol.

WOW someone already said it........do you read pimp???????

[pimpdawgin]

nova increases your natty test production.....and why would you use an AI thats just stupid var dosent aromitase......its anavar dude......run 20mg of nova for three weeks and be done with it

Easy now. The reason I was thinking of throwing in an AI is that some AI's, I believe Aromasin is a good one, also increase Testosterone levels by stopping the aromatization of whatever testosterone that's already there (natural test) into estrogen. I know Anavar is non-aromatizing, that's one of the main reasons I'm interested in it. But since it's still suppressive, I thould an AI might not be a bad idea to help avoid super low test levels when coming off it. Does that make any sense?

[Manpretty]

Easy now. The reason I was thinking of throwing in an AI is that some AI's, I believe Aromasin is a good one, also increase Testosterone levels by stopping the aromatization of whatever testosterone that's already there (natural test) into estrogen. I know Anavar is non-aromatizing, that's one of the main reasons I'm interested in it. But since it's still suppressive, I thould an AI might not be a bad idea to help avoid super low test levels when coming off it. Does that make any sense?

no run nova just like everyone has said....youll be fine dont worry

[pimpdawgin]

no run nova just like everyone has said....youll be fine dont worry

Ok. Not to keep peppering you with questions, but I've seen people running either Nolva or Clomid, sometmes both. Do one of these SERMs have any significant advantages over the other, or are they about the same?

[Muscle_4_Hire]

This is REALLY important:

Liv52
Milk thistle
1-2 gallons water ED

Get this and any PCT you may need first.

[pimpdawgin]

This is REALLY important:

Liv52
Milk thistle
1-2 gallons water ED

Get this and any PCT you may need first.

Teah definitely good to know. I found a bunch of other stuff floating around the forums. I'm not sure who the original author was, apparently Dflood. But here;s the full text.

BTW what is actually in Liv 52?

************************************************** ******
I have seen about three threads a day in the past month on anavar alone, and they all turn into arguments involving the same parties....so let this just be a "guide" for an individual planning/considering using oxandrolone as a standalone compound.

First, id like to get a few things straight about var.

MYTHS

Myth #1 - Anavar will not suppress the HPTA.
False. Anavar, used in adequate dosages, will shut you down. To what degree you experience side effects of suppression (loss of libido, lethargy) is entirely dependent upon the individual and the dosages used.

Myth #2 - Var is a weak anabolic, and is not effective unless stacked with a more androgenic compound.
This could not be further from the truth. At dosages of 40mg a day and higher, anavar is incredibly effective at adding water free LBM. At around day 6-7, increased vascularity should become apparent (assuming your oxandrolone is legitimate in its dosing), and strength gains should start appearing around day 14.
If used during a clean bulk, gains of 10-20 pounds are possible. If cutting, you will maintain weight, or even put on 5-10 pounds (depending on the rate of fat loss/severity of diet). You will keep all of your gains with proper PCT.

Myth #3 - Anavar will not require any type of PCT.
This is one ive never understood. It's a pretty commonly known fact now that var is a suppressive compound. So why is it that some individuals still refuse to make a small investment in some clomid/nolva....this is your testicular function we're talking about. That said, PCT required for var is not as "heavy" as PCT for, say, a test/eq cycle. 15-20 days @ 50mg clomid should be sufficient.


LIBIDO

The only real issue of concern that i have found when running anavar alone is slight libido suppression. Anavar is suppressive enough to where you WILL feel a difference in your sex drive (and not for the better ) when using 40+mg a day. There are three options to counteract this.

#1 - Tribulus + Avena Sativa - Trib at 4-7g a day and Avena Sativa at 3-4g a day tend to help prevent any loss in performance or ability to get it up. However, using effective dosages is going to end up being as or more expensive than options 2 or 3...but its your call.

#2 - Proviron - If hairloss is an issue in your choice to use anavar, then you may want to avoid this one. But 25mg ED proviron, starting after week 2, will keep you rock hard. And it will help to harden up your muscles too .

#3 - Maintenance Test Dosage - Finally, you could choose to use testosterone to keep your willy in shape. At a dosage of around 200mg, split bi weekly, everything should keep running smoothly. Also, this will contribute to your gains much moreso than than options 1 or 2. I would keep nolva onhand on the off chance that you are severely gyno prone. Bloating should not be an issue at this dosage.

BENEFITS

Anavar is a badass drug. This is why.

#1 - Vascularity
Oxandrolone will make you veiny as all hell. And quickly. Look out for brand new bulging forearms veins by around day 6. If you are following a cutting regimen, expect new spider webs in your chest, shoulders and quads by around day 21.

#2 - Pumps
When on var, the pumps are constant. Bored sitting in class/at work? Do some unweighted calf raises. After about three minutes, your calves will be ready to pop. Youll be doing something like drinking a cup of water, and after a minute of holding it, your bi will be completely full and pumped. You may have to cut some sets short in the gym due to the painful pumpage.

#3 - Strength
Even when cutting, you can expect new strength gains every workout after about day 14-21.

#4 - Fat Loss
Anavar has been shown to contribute to accelerated fat loss in both subcutaneous and visceral fat, concentrated effects in the a**omen and thigh area. And if youve used the drug, you can attest to this...if you cant sport the 6-8 pack look on var, its not gonna happen .

CYCLE

Anavar should be run @ at least 40mg a day to see all of the benefits it offers. Dosages upwards of 80mg have been shown to exhibit diminishing returns. Also, i cant imagine the intensity of the pumps at that kind of dosage.

Cycle #1
Anavar 40-50mg ED Weeks 1-8
Tribulus 5-8g ED Weeks 1-12
Avena Sativa 2-4g ED Weeks 1-12
Clomid 50mg ED Weeks 9-11

Cycle #2
Anavar 40-50mg ED Weeks 1-8
Proviron 25mg ED Weeks 3-8
Clomid 50mg ED Weeks 9-11

Cycle #3
Anavar 40-50mg ED Weeks 1-8
Test Prop 50mg EOD Weeks 1-8
Clomid 50mg ED Weeks 9-11

If bulking, Test Enanthate could be substituted for prop, and 100mg could be injected every 3-4 days...however, this could cause more bloating, and complicate PCT timing.

LIVER PROTECTION

Anavar is a 17 Alpha Alkylated steroid, and is toxic. It has been shown to be less toxic than other orals, and is even used as liver treatment for recovering alcoholics. Still, i would limit my time using it to 8 weeks, 10 at the most.

It would be beneficial to you liver to use several different OTC supplements during, and perhaps after your cycle. A few preventive measures never hurt anyone .

1 - Milk Thistle
The classic liver protectant herb.supposedly works by blocking the entrance of harmful substances to liver cells, and hastening their expulsion. Make sure there is a high standardization of Silymarin

2 - R ALA
A powerful antioxidant

3 - NAC
Supports liver function and production of l-glutathione

4 - Vitamin C and E
Antioxidants

5 - LOADS of water
Helps to flush out your entire system

LIPID PROTECTION

Anavar isnt going to kill your cholesterol levels like some drugs (winny being one of the worst), but it may put your LDL/HDL profiles outside of the normal range. There are a few things that help, but as long as your not using 60+mg daily or running it for more than 10 weeks, i would just use flax...

1 - Flax Oil
Consuming lots of ***** fatty acids promotes overall health, as well as helping to keep your lipid profile from becoming too bad.

2 - Policosanol
Used at 20mg daily to keep your HDL (good cholesterol) levels from crashing, and your LDL from becoming too high.

3 - Niacin
Preferably the flush free variety. If you wish, niacin can be used at 1-2g ED for a short period post-cycle to normalize HDL levels. Do not use for more than 7-14 days, as liver toxicity can be an issue when using those dosages of niacin for long periods of time.



I hope that people read this, and that it helps those doing their research to make the correct decision. If anyone sees any glaring errors, or has something important to add, hit me with a PM and ill do some editing.

Dflood
************************************************** *