Why steroids havent had any positive effect on me.

[Warrior21]

I've written several posts and acquired plenty of hate and criticism for claiming to be a 'non-responder' of steroids this year.
I finally went to go see a doc for this (200 bucks per consult, ouch). I got bloodwork done. It's coming back within a week or so.
He says he's dealt with cases like mine before, and I'm probably experiencing estrogen dominance and hypothyroidism. Unopposed (not enough progesterone to balance it out) estrogen is blocking the effects of thyroid and anabolic steroids I take.
So has anyone heard of a case like this before? Does this make any sense? Can anyone explain or point me in the direction of more research on exactly HOW estrogen negates the effects of testosterone/anabolics. I know how it does to the thyroid, but I'd like to research it's effect on roids as well.

PS. This also explains why I had to have gyno surgery (pubescent gyno), and why my hair is falling out right now. Hair loss is attributed to DHT, yet the real culprit is estro.

[hugovsilva]

Hairloss is caused mainly by androgens. The stronger naturally ocurring androgen in the human body is dht, that is why duta/fina are used with success to fight hairloss, blocking testosterone convertion to dht. Estrogen may play a role in some people but is far from being the main culprit.

I don't urderstand how you can say that estrogen is blocking the effects of anabolic/androgenic hormones. These hormones trigger their effects mainly through androgen receptor and increase in IGF production. I don't see estrogen blocking that.

[Warrior21]

Hairloss is caused mainly by androgens. The stronger naturally ocurring androgen in the human body is dht, that is why duta/fina are used with success to fight hairloss, blocking testosterone convertion to dht. Estrogen may play a role in some people but is far from being the main culprit.

I don't urderstand how you can say that estrogen is blocking the effects of anabolic/androgenic hormones. These hormones trigger their effects mainly through androgen receptor and increase in IGF production. I don't see estrogen blocking that.

Maybe estrogen dominance dosen't mean too much estrogen, just a lack of progesterone? I don't know everything 100% bro, I'm just reiterating what I've been studying. I'm not making this stuff up.

But estrogen is a HUGE player in prostate cancer and hair loss.

[Merc..]

Maybe estrogen dominance dosen't mean too much estrogen, just a lack of progesterone? I don't know everything 100% bro, I'm just reiterating what I've been studying. I'm not making this stuff up.

But estrogen is a HUGE player in prostate cancer and hair loss.

Estrogen Dominance

Estrogen and progesterone work in synchronization with each other as checks and balances to achieve hormonal harmony in both sexes. It is not the absolute deficiency of estrogen or progesterone but rather the relative dominance of estrogen and relative deficiency of progesterone that is main cause of health problems when they are off balance



http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_do..._Dominance.cfm

scroll down and click estrogen dominance for the full article..




Merc.

[Merc..]

Hairloss is caused mainly by androgens. The stronger naturally ocurring androgen in the human body is dht, that is why duta/fina are used with success to fight hairloss, blocking testosterone convertion to dht. Estrogen may play a role in some people but is far from being the main culprit.

I don't urderstand how you can say that estrogen is blocking the effects of anabolic/androgenic hormones. These hormones trigger their effects mainly through androgen receptor and increase in IGF production. I don't see estrogen blocking that.

Tests effects on IGF-1 and GH are acually dependent on aromatization to esterogen..




Merc.

[Merc..]

Have you ever used a 19 nor ?? What was your cycle?? You need to work with your doc on this...

[Warrior21]

Yea I've done a deca/test cycle and fina alone. I think I may have gained some water from Deca, it was so long ago I couldnt remember.

[AandF6969]

Eat more.

[Serotonin]

Since estrogen is only made from aromatase converting test to it... how does one experience estrogen dominance while injecting test and using an AI?

[ironaddict69]

Since estrogen is only made from aromatase converting test to it... how does one experience estrogen dominance while injecting test and using an AI?

exactly. Plus alot of estrogen if anything would make him get thicker on cycle, more fat i mean of course, but strength would probably rise even more. Hell i know my estrogen is high, and im not fat or bloated though. I like the pump and fullness created by letting estrogen rise, plus i can workout harder and longer.

[Warrior21]

Estrogen dominance is not caused by high estro and low test. Estrogen dominance is a deficiency in progesterone, which allows estrogen to "overpower" testosterone/or other androgens.
To combat estrogen dominance, my doctor (still waiting on test results) will most likely put me on progesterone cream, anti-e, and thyroid meds. I'm just waiting on his orders though.

[Serotonin]

Right, and that makes sense because progesterone is the primary precursor to testosterone. But, I guess I'm just curious how this affects your use of AAS? Did he give you any specific reasoning? Because in a natural physiological setting, I understand how estrogen dominance can occur but supplementing the amount of test most bodybuilders do, seems like it would make estrogen dominance irrelevant since ultimately, progesterone levels are irrelevant because you're entirely bypassing your testes.

I tried reading what I could on estrogen overpowering testosterone and couldn't find anything. It just seems like taking those meds is great in normal homeostatic operation of your bodies hormones but makes no sense in regards to AAS.

What are your estrogen levels? Do you suffer from gyno?

Not trying to argue with you at all... just mainly think you should get a second opinion because that sounds like a pretty silly diagnosis for why AAS don't work on you. Or maybe I just don't understand how low progesterone somehow makes the binding affinity of specific AAS irrelevant and puts estrogen at the head of the pack.

[Warrior21]

Well, I can't even answer those questions. I've heard from a couple of doctors though that if estrogen gets too high, steroids wouldn't work.

I also asked this same doctor, "Well if my estrogen was high, would I get sore nipples and be bloated?" He replied, "not necessarily". Very confusing stuff man.

I've had gyno, had it removed a couple years back. I also suffer from hairloss, a side effect dealing with estrogen dominance. Besides all that, my metabolic rate is extremely slow.

I can't tell you how estrogen dominance can negate the effects of steroids, but I've read in many places that it negates the effects of t3. A person who is estrogen dominant who takes t3 will not see any results from it because the body will elevate it's reverse t3 and thyroid-binding-globulin to defend against this extra t3. That explains why I can take 250mcg of t3 a day for a couple weeks at a time and not feel the least bit different.

Oh and by the way, I've wasted about 3000 dollars on drugs with no results due to my condition (whatever it may be).

[ironaddict69]

have you tried a different source? I know people say it alll comes down to diet and exercise, but cows gain weight from GRASS when they have the fina pellets put in em, youd at least FEEL tren. I dont care what your progesterone is. Dude you might wanna try another source, i know ur bro used the same guy but he might pick and choose who he rips off.

[vitor]

Since estrogen is only made from aromatase converting test to it... how does one experience estrogen dominance while injecting test and using an AI?

No,
there are other sources to estrogen than aromataze.



An estrogen dominant enviroment can actuslly block androgen recepters, or make them in-effective for a androgen molecule to bind to.

[Warrior21]

No,
there are other sources to estrogen than aromataze.



An estrogen dominant enviroment can actuslly block androgen recepters, or make them in-effective for a androgen molecule to bind to.

EXACTLY. Can you let me know where some more of that material that you have read is?
I've heard this by word of mouth from nurses, and the alternative med doc. Haven't had too much luck researching it much.

[ironaddict69]

strange, Everywhere ive read it said estrogen up-regulates the androgen receptor

[Charly]

what are the solutions for low-responders ?

"eat more" is not the solution, because when
the steroid is not working, you will gain only a lot of fat, because one is still nearly natural.

many use steroids in a diet and still gain a lot of muscle !

food is not the problem.


I guess the only way is to increase dosages.

taiboxa wrote in the non-repsonders thread, that one should increase dosages until gains start.

@ taiboxa: what are your dosages and why do you rate Test
as a weak steroid ?

@ warrior21 did you increase dosages already, what were the results ?

[hulk1o1]

to each his own

[Chuck_R]

Tests effects on IGF-1 and GH are acually dependent on aromatization to esterogen..




Merc.

Hey Merc.....If that's the case, would you want to take an AI while on cycle and hgh/igf?

[JasonR]

bump, good post.