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Thread: World's oldest tree discovered in Sweden

  1. #1
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    World's oldest tree discovered in Sweden

    The world's oldest tree has been found in Sweden, a tenacious spruce that first took root just after the end of the last ice age, more than 9,500 years ago.

    The tree has rewritten the history of the climate in the region

    The tree has rewritten the history of the climate in the region, revealing that it was much warmer at that time and the ice had disappeared earlier than thought.

    Previously, pine trees in North America were thought to be the oldest, at around 5,000 years old.


    But Swedish scientists report that in the mountains, from Lapland in the north to Dalarna in central Sweden, there are much more ancient spruce trees (Picea abies).

    Prof Leif Kullman at Umeå University and colleagues found a cluster of around 20 spruces that are over 8,000 years old.

    The oldest tree, in Fulu Mountain, Dalarna (“the dales”), was dated by carbon dating at a laboratory in Miami, Florida to 9,550 years old and underneath the crown in the soil there were another three generations of wood from the same clone, dating 375, 5,660 and 9,000 years old that have the same genetic makeup.

    The clones take root each winter as snow pushes low lying branches of the mother tree down to ground level, explains Prof Kullman.

    “A new erect stem emerges, and it may lose contact with the mother tree over time.”

    advertisementThe trunks of the mother tree would survive only around 600 years but the trees are able to grow a new one, he adds.

    The finding is surprising because the spruce tree has been regarded as a relative newcomer in the Swedish mountain region and is thought to have originated 600 miles away in the east.

    "Our results migration in the complete opposite direction has be considered, because the spruce is one of the oldest known trees in the mountain range,” says Prof Kullman.

    Ten millennia ago, a spruce would have been extremely rare and it is conceivable that the ancient humans who lived there imported the tree, he says.

    “Man immigrated close to the receding ice front. We have also found fossil acorns in this area, and people may have taken them with them as they moved over the landscape.”

    It had been thought that this region was still in the grip of the ice age but the tree shows it was much warmer, even than today, he says.

    “Spruces are the species that can best give us insight about climate change,” he says.

    The summers 9,500 years ago were warmer than today
    , though there has been a rapid recent rise as a result of climate change that means modern climate is rapidly catching up.

    The tree probably survived as a result of several factors: the generally cold and dry climate, few forest fires and relatively few humans.

    Today, however, the nature conservancy authorities are considering putting a fence around the record breaking tree to protect it from trophy hunters.

  2. #2
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    Very interesting, you see the scientific consensus was that the oldest trees were in North America and that Sweden was still in the ice age. The scientific consensus was wrong on both counts.

    The summers 9,500 years ago were warmer then they are now in Sweden even before all the manmade CO2??? What's that mean? anyone? Al Gore? please explain?

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    anyone else hear about this? You won't because it contradicts the global warming alarmisms and they don't report the science, only the hysteria. Summer is coming watch all the press global warming gets on the hot days, pictures of melting ice caps, polar bears starving, etc. etc.

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    is the tree still alive?

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    ^^I would think so.

    "Today, however, the nature conservancy authorities are considering putting a fence around the record breaking tree to protect it from trophy hunters."

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    no. It died over 9550 years ago. This is known by Carbon 14 dating. Living things use carbon and when they die they stop taking in new carbon. Plants fix atmospheric carbon during photosynthesis, so the level of Carbon 14 (14C) in plants at the time wood is laid down equals the level of 14C in the atmosphere at that time. After it dies it decreases thereafter from radioactive decay, allowing the date of death to be estimated. The initial 14C level for the calculation can be directly compared with known year-by-year data from tree-ring data (dendrochronology) to 10,000 years ago.

    Carbon-14 occurs in trace amounts, making up as much as 1 part per trillion (0.0000000001%) of the carbon on the Earth. The half-life of carbon-14 is 5,730±40 years. It decays into nitrogen-14 through beta-decay.

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    ^^wait...it's dead? Is it just a fossil?

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by kfrost06 View Post
    anyone else hear about this? You won't because it contradicts the global warming alarmisms and they don't report the science, only the hysteria. Summer is coming watch all the press global warming gets on the hot days, pictures of melting ice caps, polar bears starving, etc. etc.
    i personally enjoy all of your post against global warming....you know we are going to hear it, even bush is buying in to the hysteria.
    Last edited by lotaquestions; 04-17-2008 at 09:49 PM.

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    No the tree is alive, hence why its called worlds oldest tree I saw it on the news a few days ago.


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    ^^I thought so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kfrost06 View Post
    The oldest tree, in Fulu Mountain, Dalarna (“the dales”), was dated by carbon dating at a laboratory in Miami, Florida to 9,550 years old and underneath the crown in the soil there were another three generations of wood from the same clone, dating 375, 5,660 and 9,000 years old that have the same genetic makeup.

    The clones take root each winter as snow pushes low lying branches of the mother tree down to ground level, explains Prof Kullman.

    “A new erect stem emerges, and it may lose contact with the mother tree over time.”

    The trunks of the mother tree would survive only around 600 years but the trees are able to grow a new one, he adds.
    No, it's not alive and yes it is, kinda. In order to do Carbon test 14C, it must be organic and it must be dead. If it was alive it would still be taking in 14C and doing 14C testing is worthless. From the highlighted area in the quote it says they live about 600 years and then a clone tree is pushed up from the branches that get buried in the snow. So imagine the branch close to the ground gets buried and then pops back up, that then starts to grow like a trunk itself and then seperates from the original tree and becomes it's own tree but a exact clone of the parent(mother) tree. The original tree died 9550 years ago as dated by carbon testing yet it's clones live on, hope that clears it up.

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    ^^I get it...kind of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kfrost06 View Post
    No, it's not alive and yes it is, kinda. In order to do Carbon test 14C, it must be organic and it must be dead. If it was alive it would still be taking in 14C and doing 14C testing is worthless.
    Not nessecarly, the old rings of a tree doesnt receive any new carbon once they have formed so its possible to carbon date living trees.

    Seems to be different stories in different newspapers, but from what I can gather from swedish news its the roots that has been dated and aslong as the root stays the same I dont know why they would call the "new" trunk a clone. Is still the same root. Ohh well trying to interpret news articles when it comes to scientific matters is ****ing confusing

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    I'll get ma chainsaw...

    I wanna hold the record for chopping down the worlds oldest tree!!

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    Cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kärnfysikern View Post
    Not nessecarly, the old rings of a tree doesnt receive any new carbon once they have formed so its possible to carbon date living trees.
    Seems to be different stories in different newspapers, but from what I can gather from swedish news its the roots that has been dated and aslong as the root stays the same I dont know why they would call the "new" trunk a clone. Is still the same root. Ohh well trying to interpret news articles when it comes to scientific matters is ****ing confusing
    Very interesting, wasn't aware of that. I don't know much about botany and next to nothing about dendrochronology but I certianly agree the articles are hard to interpret, I read a few of them and they dance around the issue. I'd be surprised if a living tree didn't have carbon going through it, I don't know much in the area but I just visualize sap, nutrients, water, ect. traveling from the roots up to the branches and vise versa. I actually studied carbon dating in grad school and wrote a paper on the carbon dating of the shroud of turin. I worked extensively on mass spectrometry but never had the pleasure of using an accelerator mass spectrometer (AMS). I do know that the chemist will do the analysis and the other sciences are left to explain the results. In the Shroud case, an AMS dated the shroud to around AD 1260 - 1390 but the controversy was contamination, i.e. it was argued that it had increased carbon due to contamination by bacteria and bacterial residue from being handled and the question of wether the Shroud was mended during the Medival age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shifty_git View Post
    I'll get ma chainsaw...

    I wanna hold the record for chopping down the worlds oldest tree!!
    LOL, the funny thing is there are certianly a few of you out there and thats why they are securing the area from relic hunters. I bet it will not be long before ebay has a branch or two up for auction.
    Last edited by kfrost06; 04-20-2008 at 08:58 PM.

  18. #18
    I heard it was still alive too and im moving to sweden in a month.. was hoping to go check it out.. I read "Oldest Living Tree"...

  19. #19
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    That is VERY interesting! I'm doing a project on whether humanity is responsible for current climate change or not, and one of my sections is about how we could tell climate in the past using things like ice cores and wood rings.

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    although i think we take trees for granted, they never cease to amaze me. if there is one non-sentient organism on earth that i would call noble i think it would be the tree. they grow up against gravity, towards the sun, and make the world a better place, apparently for upwards of 9000 years. Simply amazing. Save a tree :-)

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