Winter bulk how does it look

**tbjake34** · 10-11-2009, 12:58 PM

Just about to order my winter cycle how does it look

Cycle exp. 3 cycles of test with an oral.

The cycle:
wk1-10 Test 600mg/wk
wk1-10 deca 300mg/wk
finastride 1mg/day

Pct
toremifene
60/40/40

This is my first run with deca so im keeping the dose low. Ive had problems with hair loss in the past with test so im running fina.

My questions are, should I start running fina before the cycle? Ive heard there is a "shedding" period how long does that last? Is my pct strong enough? I havenever tried toremifene but ive heard it works really well for pct. Any input is appreciated, thanks.

**dec11** · 10-11-2009, 01:01 PM

id bump tht pct up, include clomid and run it 4wks min, poss throw in some hcg aswell

**Critical Mass** · 10-11-2009, 01:03 PM

I would stretch the cycle to 12 weeks in total. Discontinue the Deca at week 10. Pct seem a bit on the weak side,but have never tried torem. Just my 2 cent.

**Critical Mass** · 10-11-2009, 01:04 PM

You beat me to it lol.

**dec11** · 10-11-2009, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by omna82

I would stretch the cycle to 12 weeks in total. Discontinue the Deca at week 10. Pct seem a bit on the weak side,but have never tried torem. Just my 2 cent.

yep good call, missed tht cycle length!!

**peachfuzz** · 10-11-2009, 01:08 PM

Stats???

There needs to be some adjustments made and Im pretty sure the concensus is still that deca and finasteride together is a no no but i could be wrong....

**tbjake34** · 10-11-2009, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

Stats???

There needs to be some adjustments made and Im pretty sure the concensus is still that deca and finasteride together is a no no but i could be wrong....

No deca and fina?? And what if i bump the pct to 4 wks of torem and throw in some clomi?

**peachfuzz** · 10-11-2009, 01:45 PM

stats please...

and yes i would stay 60/60/60/60 on the torem and throw in clomid at 25-50mg/day with it.

**tbjake34** · 10-11-2009, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

stats please...

and yes i would stay 60/60/60/60 on the torem and throw in clomid at 25-50mg/day with it.

Stats: 5'10, 205, Bf% 7

I need to know if i can run fina with deca?? anyone have any info on this?

***El Diablo*** · 10-11-2009, 02:10 PM

^^^ 7% ..?
Age?

**peachfuzz** · 10-11-2009, 02:14 PM

your not gonna get a clear cut answer on the deca and fina. youll here mixed opinions.

**Captain37** · 10-11-2009, 02:21 PM

I am already on Propecia and about to start Deca, is there a reason why you shouldnt take it. If that is the case I am going to stay away from the Deca.

**peachfuzz** · 10-11-2009, 02:27 PM

Nandrolone is reduced by the 5ar enzyme to DHN. A much less potent androgen then DHT. By inhibiting the 5ar enzyme with finasteride you prevent the reduction of the nandrolone to a weaker androgen. that is the argument for why not to run the two.

now as far as why its ok i borrowed this from elsewhere...

Dispelling the deca + finasteride myth

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I heard you can't use finasteride with deca"
Without fail, you'll hear this statement at least once a month.

First off, let me preface this by saying that this is true, in certain contexts.
However, I'm an advocate of including testosterone in every cycle, so my explanation is with the assumption that one will be using nandrolone in addition to testosterone

For those that do not know, testosterone converts to DHT via the 5 alpha reductase enzyme. DHT is far more androgenic than testosterone and is the main contributor to MPB in those genetically predisposed.

Finasteride is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor, and therefore limits the conversion of testosterone to DHT via competitive inhibition.

Nandrolone itself is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor (although it yields DHN in the process). So less DHT is produced if nandrolone is present. Also, DHN is much less androgenic than nandrolone and much less androgenic than DHT. So, finasteride with deca (nandrolone) should both work to reduce DHT levels, and since finasteride will inhibit 5a reductase, it'll also keep levels of DHN lower too.

The misconception that deca with finasteride is a bad combination stems from the the days when deca only cycles were more common (often referred to as the days before jason updated the AR homepage cycles ) If one were running a deca only cycle (or any deca cycle without test), then finasteride would be a poor choice, because DHN is less androgenic than nandrolone. However, since we're assuming test to be included in a deca cycle, and both test and DHT are far more androgenic than nandrolone, if your goal is preventing the formation of the most androgenic compounds, then both deca and finasteride work together to reduce DHT formation.

To sum things up, if you're running a test + deca cycle and are worried about MPB (and you're susceptible), then including finasteride is a far better option than NOT including it, although the nandrolone will help to reduce DHT formation on its own to some extent.

This doesn't touch on the many positive effects of DHT (libido, muscle hardness, decreased SHBG and therefore increased bioavailable AAS).....this is only in the context of preventing hairloss.

-einstein1905

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like I said you have two views on the subject with no clear cut answer. If it were me i would stick to topical antiandrogens when running deca...

there is a plethora of threads on the subject already. do a search

**tbjake34** · 10-11-2009, 02:39 PM

I think ill just get some nizoral ot spiro. Thanks for the info I appreciate it.

**tbjake34** · 10-14-2009, 08:08 AM

Ive decieded to change my cycle to this..

wk1-4 dbol 25mg/day
wk1-10 Test E 600mg/wk
wk1-10 Deca 300mg/wk
wk 5-10 Extreme tren 120mg/day

pct
torem 60/60/60/60
clomi 50/50/50

My question is would it be ok to run two 19 nors? Ive heard this is bad but I need someone with expirence on this.

**tbjake34** · 10-14-2009, 09:24 AM

Anyone know if its safe to run two 19 nors along side eachother??

**Duma23** · 10-14-2009, 09:34 AM

120mg tren a day u wanna die lol?

**tbjake34** · 10-14-2009, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Dumachi

120mg tren a day u wanna die lol?

lol its a pro-hormone to tren called extreme tren I love the stuff it makes me rock hard and the strenght gaines are insane so I deciede to end my cycle with it to harden me up a bit. But it is a 19-nor so thats why i ask because deca is also a 19-nor and ive heard its bad to run two 19-nors alond side each other

**oak2429** · 10-14-2009, 09:50 AM

run extreme tren weeks 8-11 right up till PCT

**stpete** · 10-14-2009, 09:50 AM

Just drop the prohormone. You'll be fine. I like to run the test longer though.

**tbjake34** · 10-14-2009, 09:55 AM

I only have enough test for 10 wks.. Unless i drop to dose to 500mg/wk but I dont really wanna do that

**tbjake34** · 10-14-2009, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by oak2429

run extreme tren weeks 8-11 right up till PCT

What if I start the xtren wk 10 and run it to wk 15 then start pct?

**peachfuzz** · 10-14-2009, 11:11 AM

you need to run the test a week longer then deca so i would drop the dose.

week 1-4 dbol 25mg/ED
week 1-12 Test 500mg/week
week 1-10 deca 300mg/week
week 11-14 tren xtreme

the way you have it listed is 10 weeks of orals with no breaks, not smart. tren will f*ck up your liver, cholesterol, etc. its not a joke.

**tbjake34** · 10-15-2009, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

you need to run the test a week longer then deca so i would drop the dose.

week 1-4 dbol 25mg/ED
week 1-12 Test 500mg/week
week 1-10 deca 300mg/week
week 11-14 tren xtreme

the way you have it listed is 10 weeks of orals with no breaks, not smart. tren will f*ck up your liver, cholesterol, etc. its not a joke.

Perfect, thanks

**peachfuzz** · 10-15-2009, 11:56 AM

no problem.

post cycle starts week 15

**chuckt12345** · 10-15-2009, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by tbjake34

Perfect, thanks

hey that tren xtr shite doesnt make you aggrevated? i tried that one time to see about all the PH hype and about 3 wks into it i had to stop.

**tbjake34** · 10-16-2009, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by chuckt12345

hey that tren xtr shite doesnt make you aggrevated? i tried that one time to see about all the PH hype and about 3 wks into it i had to stop.

Didnt get aggressive at all the only sides i got were night sweats once i uped the dose to 120mg/day i got the chills every now and then. Overall its an amazing PH and for only $30!! you cant beat that. My bench went from 305 to 335 in about 5 wks. Pretty good for a PH

**tbjake34** · 10-16-2009, 09:27 AM

Ok so i have a question about pinning.. I want to pin the deca and test in the same syringe so I have less injections.. My question, do I draw with the same pin from both vials? Or do I switch pins? Would it still be sterile after I draw from one? Im obviously putting in a new needle to pin myslef but im wondering about drawing from vials. O and would it be ok to run SARMs S4 in pct? Ive heard you will keep almost all your gains

**darkcrayz** · 10-16-2009, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by tbjake34

Ok so i have a question about pinning.. I want to pin the deca and test in the same syringe so I have less injections.. My question, do I draw with the same pin from both vials? Or do I switch pins? Would it still be sterile after I draw from one? Im obviously putting in a new needle to pin myslef but im wondering about drawing from vials. O and would it be ok to run SARMs S4 in pct? Ive heard you will keep almost all your gains

from understanding you should be fine to use the same needle to pull both deca and test as long as you wipe down both vials with an alcohol wipe so they are clean.

cant help you with the s4 question though.

**tbjake34** · 10-16-2009, 12:02 PM

Can s4 be ran along side serms?

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