Still no libido: help!

[sierrahiker]

Post deleted deleted deleted

[Black]

First question that comes to my mind is, what are your E2 (Estrogen) levels at? Your testosterone may be high, but if it's accompanied by high estrogen, you can still suffer loss of libido and hormonal imbalances.

EDIT:

Also, Test injections (Cyp and Enan) have half-lifes of about 10 days (I personally start to feel a decline after 7 days). Injecting every 3 weeks is throwing your blood levels on a roller coaster ride.

[durak]

First question that comes to my mind is, what are your E2 (Estrogen) levels at? Your testosterone may be high, but if it's accompanied by high estrogen, you can still suffer loss of libido and hormonal imbalances.

EDIT:

Also, Test injections (Cyp and Enan) have half-lifes of about 10 days (I personally start to feel a decline after 7 days). Injecting every 3 weeks is throwing your blood levels on a roller coaster ride.

Agree with all the above. The e2 level is a real possibility. You may want to look into hcg.

If you can get the blood work we should be able to help trouble shoot. Also your wife is probably a little distraught. You may want to get se cialis or something in the time being. Just make sure you communicate with her.

What type of dr are you going to?

[tboney]

First question that comes to my mind is, what are your E2 (Estrogen) levels at? Your testosterone may be high, but if it's accompanied by high estrogen, you can still suffer loss of libido and hormonal imbalances.

EDIT:

Also, Test injections (Cyp and Enan) have half-lifes of about 10 days (I personally start to feel a decline after 7 days). Injecting every 3 weeks is throwing your blood levels on a roller coaster ride.

Well said! I agree.

Also, any recent blood work other than test levels?

[tboney]

I think test, or other long estered compounds, injections should be given every 3.5 days.

[956Vette]

Is this normal? Am I expecting too much, too soon? I thought t. injections were instantly effective. Maybe it takes a couple months for the effectiveness to kick in? Thanks in advance.

Depot is a whole new ball game. It will take time to dial in your testosterone, estrogen, etc. Certainly is more intensive than the androgel protocol. The more bloodwork and the more you get in tune with your body, things will improve. Hang in there

Meanwhile it isnt a bad thing to have some PDE5 inhibitors around

[sierrahiker]

I have another blood test in three weeks.

[956Vette]

If you really want the urge...you can go the synthetic route, PT-141

[tboney]

If you really want the urge...you can go the synthetic route, PT-141

Have you used this peptide??? I tried it twice, both times I am positive of its legitamacy..... It was not affective. I did get a quality erection when I increased the dose but no psychological increase in desire. It also made me quite nauseated.

[whiteowl]

Durak and Dante are spot on. The lack of libido is how i know i am doing too much test because the noticeable side is E2 increase which results in shoe horn sex. Injections take about 4-6 weeks to get stable but i don't know about after gel. And Dante is right about the roller coaster ride. Are you working with a GP or and endocrinologist?

[Epic Ed]

I would explain to your doc that you want to have a more interactive and proactive role in your health care plan. Don't take "no" for an answer when you let him know you plan to self administer the injections at home 2x weekly. Explain why at least 1x weekly shots are a standard protocol for the esters you're prescribed. A quick read through this forum will yield a nearly unanimous consensus that 1x weekly is a minimum to avoid the roller coaster and 2x weekly is preferred.

I know you're limited with doc options on an HMO, but if he steadfastly refuses to work with you then do some shopping. I'd be willing to bet the "no self injection" rule isn't dictated by the HMO, at all, and he's using it as an excuse because he doesn't want you to do it at home. Finding out the truth should be simple enough with a phone call to your insurance provider. Ask them for clarification.

Good luck on the libido. I'm in a similar boat. The test have improved my drive, but I'm still dealing with issues finishing the job. I'm considering buying some Cabergoline to give it a try.

[956Vette]

Have you used this peptide??? I tried it twice, both times I am positive of its legitamacy..... It was not affective. I did get a quality erection when I increased the dose but no psychological increase in desire. It also made me quite nauseated.

Primarily I have Melanotan 2 experience, but plenty of PT-141 use for sure. Puts me in a driven state of youthful desire. Very effective for me and most I know personally who use. Certainly not for everyone...but there is content all over the net, in print, etc...the stories are legit, no doubt

[sierrahiker]

Ed, I thought from exhaustive reading of this Forum that the standard script for self-injections are 100 mg's a week? If I inject twice a week, should I ask for 50 mg's twice a week? Again, on 200 mg's at a two week interval, my T. level shot up to 1300+.

I know a lot of guys would love that level, but I'm not a body builder and I find that when my levels go that high I actually feel worse than at 800-900.

Why would a Doc be resistent to a man self-injecting? They'd prescribe the vials, how could you abuse it? I don't get it.

[956Vette]

I try and inject every 10 days...that is as far as I can stretch test e or test c

[Black]

How close to your injection did he take blood? I had blood drawn a few hours after my injection (doc orders) and my levels were high (Total T 1400 and E2 41). Obviously because of being so close to the injection time, my levels had "spiked" so to speak. He wanted to put me on an AI. Ended up not needing it when we retested before injection.

I hear ya about the endo. I had Total T of 140 ng/dl @ the age of 26 and doc told me I was fine. Didn't matter that I told him all the symptoms. Keep looking out there. There are some that will really help you. I hear a lot of people have success with a Urologist.

Good luck man.

[Epic Ed]

Ed, I thought from exhaustive reading of this Forum that the standard script for self-injections are 100 mg's a week? If I inject twice a week, should I ask for 50 mg's twice a week? Again, on 200 mg's at a two week interval, my T. level shot up to 1300+.

I know a lot of guys would love that level, but I'm not a body builder and I find that when my levels go that high I actually feel worse than at 800-900.

Why would a Doc be resistent to a man self-injecting? They'd prescribe the vials, how could you abuse it? I don't get it.

I think 100mg per week is a dose most docs script for a starting point for TRT, and from what I've read here on this forum, more often than not it's a good starting point to get a baseline of where the doses need to go. That's the dose I'm on, except I split mine up into two 50mg injections per week. Dose is the same -- frequency increased because after 4 weeks of dosing 100mg a week I recognized a consistent drop in focus and energy after day five or six. I've done 2x per week injections for two weeks and haven't had that problem. Others report similar results, but a lot of people are fine with 1x EW.

My point is, your doc should be working with you as an advisor in your health care plan. YOU should be the one allowed to drive the process, though. A lot of docs aren't used to working like that with their patients, but I insist on it. If you're here on this forum and others doing your own research about what works for others you're already miles ahead of the game from those who just sit back and let their docs do all the decision making. Some people prefer it that way, and there's nothing wrong with that, but there is enough info available to every day schmucks like you and me these days that we can do enough information gathering about most medical matters to make our own educated decisions about how we want to proceed. The doc should be a partner in the process, not pretending to be omniscient and closed minded to his patients input.

[956Vette]

I like the way you think Ed, agreed

[dosXX]

Elevated estrogen MIGHT be the culprit. if it is using an AI can help bring the numbers down to normal range. Can you post your E2 result when you get them?

[Vettester]

I have another blood test in three weeks and will make sure my E2 level will be checked. When I was on Androgel, the Dr. I was seeing was an endocronologist and he was basically useless. He wanted my t. levels no higher than 500. When I told him I felt lousy at 500, he copped a big attitude and said anything higher was "dangerous."

Right now my primary care physician is giving me the shots. I realize getting 200 mg's every 3 weeks is ineffective, but my hands are tied because the last blood test revealed my t. levels were 1300 and I don't want them that high. I feel great at 800. He won't let me self-inject, this is an HMO and that is their iron-clad rule.

I am taking Viagra right now, but that's not a cure-all. It gives an erection but still doesn't give me the urge. At 1300 t. level, I sure as hell should have a high sex drive and it is frustrating, especially for my wife.

Thank you for all for your advice. I appreciate it.

Damn, that sounds almost like the Endo I had at Kaiser. Sorry to hear you're going through this. Sadly, the place you're going through are losers. Their "Iron Clad" rule is actually more of a statement that they don't trust and/or view their patients as children.

If you're stuck with them then you're stuck, but if not then consider finding a better Dr. I suspect your E2 is high and there might be other things out of range. This is the type of doc that loads you up with "T", but then goes to the other end of the spectrum when your results come in high. Complain about sex, they'll give you Viagara, then when you start getting depressed they'll put you on Anti-Depressants. Get upset, they'll call it "roid rage" and then back your "T" off even more.

You can't win with these guys ... They will never treat you, the patient, they will just treat your score!

[sierrahiker]

I am a patient at Kaiser too in Fontana. Are you going there too? If so, what a coincidence!!!!

[sierrahiker]

I am a patient at Kaiser too in Fontana. Are you going there too? If so, what a coincidence!

[Vettester]

I am a patient at Kaiser too in Fontana. Are you going there too? If so, what a coincidence!

Are you going through their Endo department? Dr. M?

[sierrahiker]

YES! M!!! Do you have him? He is an asshole!

[valencia1]

Interesting stuff. I was with Kaiser for many years in the Los Angeles area, (Panorama City, not Fontana), and they had NO problem at all with my Test levels being in the low 200s. As soon as I switched to UHC my primary doc did full BW and immediately said I was in serious need of TRT and sent me to an endo who hooked me up first with gel then test cyp self injection.

UHC actually had an article in one of their newsletters about male hormone replacement touting the benefits. It is sad how long I suffered under the Kaiser plan.

[zaggahamma]

bloodwork bloodwork bloodwork...wish i could do more often myself.....estrogen, prolactin, cortisol, blood pressure.....still

[Vettester]

YES! M!!! Do you have him? He is an asshole!

LMFAO

Sierra, we really need to talk.

How bout those winds today?

[956Vette]

This has been a great thread, lol

[sierrahiker]

Well Vetteman, considering there are guys posting on this Forum from all over the world, the chances of us both suffering under Dr. M. at the Fontana Kaiser are astronomical. The damage that Bozo has done has apparently been wider spread than I originally thought.

I wrote a complaint letter about him, very strongly worded, which I sent to the head of Kaiser. I immediately got a phone call back and a half-hearted apology from a big wig, but Dr. M. was still rude, haughty and when my T. level was 114, had the freakin' nerve to say to me, "Well, I'm moving you up from 4 swipes of Androgel to 5 swipes per day."

Whoopee dee woo, dirtbag. That's kind of like having a hemoraging patient and throwing them a band-aid.

It's been a revelation for me to read the thousands of posts here from men suffering with this problem and the medical profession generally being totally inept in treating it. It's not rocket science, give us the testosterone we NEED.

Dr. M. openly said to me, "I will never give you injections. None of my patients are given injections. You could take it and sell it on the black market." I put that direct quote in my complaint letter, and if they confronted him, I am sure he denied it.

[sierrahiker]

Let me share another pearl of wisdom from Dr. M.

[Epic Ed]

I'd of had a field day with that doc. It probably would have been the last time we ever talked.

If you're stuck with this idiot, I'm sorry.

[zaggahamma]

Let me share another pearl of wisdom from Dr. M.

I was complaining to him about the fact that it was basically impossible for me to get it up with such low T. levels. He said, "Can you masturbate successfully?" I said, "I don't have the need to do that. I have no sex drive. That is the problem."

Then he had the gall to say, "Well, if you can masturbate successfully, it doesn't matter particularly if sexual intercourse takes place. The release is ultimately all that matters."

Um... excuse me? I'm married, here! What kind of a Dr. doesn't recognize that the inability to have sex impacts a marriage, a man's self-esteem and basically wrecks his entire life if it goes on long enough? The guy was clueless. I was so angry I said, "How would you like it if your Doctor basically told you that you can't have sex and just learn to live with it." He got very angry, though suppressed it (you could see him ready to bust a fuse), and said, "I am not going to deign to answer that question. I treat YOU, you don't treat ME."

I'd like to see him limping around with T. levels in the 100's. You can bet he'd be reaching for the 400 mg shots in about .06 seconds.

wut a fvcking son of a bitch....i hope you guys do ALL u can to make him pay....think i would have given him a dre with his steth

[Vettester]

Sierra, are you doing your lab work at Kaiser in 3 weeks? If so, don't count on them doing your E2. They don't believe in checking that stat. If you even hint a word about wanting something like Arimidex you will probably get this and then they might send you back to Black Hitler again. Did they try to feed you the line that it's a federal law and illegal to self administer injections at your house?

[sierrahiker]

Vette: they have not specifically said it is against the law to self-inject, they merely said it was not an option.

Are you saying they will NOT check my E2?

I also have Health Net insurance through my wife's work. Please advise me what to do. I hate to start all over with someone else. How do you get your T. to self-inject? Can you give me some advise, I would really appreciate it, or give me the name of a Dr. I can see who will treat me as a patient and not my numbers. I have been struggling with this with Kaiser for over a year!

[Black]

I am not sure about doctors in your area. If you want to take the time, you can try a Urologist around where you live.

If you want direct help, you can get it through "anti-aging" clinics. They are all over the US. Some don't even need to see you. They do everything over the phone and e-mail (They phone consult and order up bloodwork and ship you the necessary meds and supplies).

Now the draw backs. They usually don't accept insurance (due to the fact that they use their own compounding pharmacy). So everything is out of pocket. However, they will work with you. True, they want $$$, however, the end result is you feeling better and getting the help professionally.

My brother-in-law uses one and raves about it. He was in your situation before. The doctors around him wouldn't give him any attention. I can get you the information to the one he uses, but you don't have PM. Get that post count up!

[Vettester]

Vette: they have not specifically said it is against the law to self-inject, they merely said it was not an option.

Are you saying they will NOT check my E2?

I also have Health Net insurance through my wife's work. Please advise me what to do. I hate to start all over with someone else. How do you get your T. to self-inject? Can you give me some advise, I would really appreciate it, or give me the name of a Dr. I can see who will treat me as a patient and not my numbers. I have been struggling with this with Kaiser for over a year!

If you talk to the friendly Endo at Fontana, he will try to tell you that it's against the law. You should pin them down and find out why they feel that it is not an option. Kind of goofy when there's thousands and thousands of legal prescriptions taking place right now in people's homes.

9 out of 10 they will just tell you that there's no reason to check E2 period.

When you get to 50 posts you should be able to send/rec PM's. Send me one and we can talk about some names. Mentioning names on an open forum only leads to problems.

[Black]

If you talk to the friendly Endo at Fontana, he will try to tell you that it's against the law. You should pin them down and find out why they feel that it is not an option. Kind of goofy when there's thousands and thousands of legal prescriptions taking place right now in people's homes.

9 out of 10 they will just tell you that there's no reason to check E2 period.

When you get to 50 posts you should be able to send/rec PM's. Send me one and we can talk about some names. Mentioning names on an open forum only leads to problems.

It's scary that these doctors are treating people. I mean, what's that tell you if non-medically licensed people know more than doctors treating you? Maybe it wasn't practiced awhile ago, but isn't the medical field ever evolving? They should be researching just like we do.

I was trying to think of a way to justify their "NO PINS" attitude, but I can't. I was going to try and say maybe it's because they want to cover their asses incase patients mess up self-injecting. However, it's really not that hard. No different than taking a specified amount of pills a day. As long as you follow the provided guidelines, there's little room for error.

No the E2 thing is just crazy.

[sierrahiker]

Vette,
Think of the millions of Kaiser patients who are diabetic and self-inject insulin every day... so Dr. M's lie is transparent.

I called my PCP Kaiser Dr. and he won't schedule me for another blood test until June. He flat out said to me, "E2 on a blood test? I've never heard of it."

I am sick of these charletons.

[Vettester]

Vette,
Think of the millions of Kaiser patients who are diabetic and self-inject insulin every day... so Dr. M's lie is transparent.

I called my PCP Kaiser Dr. and he won't schedule me for another blood test until June. He flat out said to me, "E2 on a blood test? I've never heard of it."

I am sick of these charletons.

Is there any way you can email me the name of a Dr. where I get my 100 mg's a week to self-inject? I am not into abusing it or anything else. I just want to feel better.

My emails is:

generalusgrant AT yahoo.com

Thank you.

Sierra, check your email

Glad I mentioned the E2 situation to you. Scary response you got from the doc! Sounds about right.

We know you're here looking for solutions, not abuse.

[dosXX]

i say dump kaiser and find another doctor this might be a difficult task but in the end working with a good doctor is always a plus in my book