How much fat can you loose on a var only cycle?

[Morgoth]

I'm planning a var only cycle (may also throw some clen in) @ 40MG/day for 6weeks. I will be watching my diet very strictly (high protein, low carbs, low fat) and be doing cardio 5 days a week @ 40 min/day in addition to doing weights.

How much bodyfat can I be expected to loose? Right now I plan to loose around 20lbs of fat and around 5-10% bodyfat. Is this a realistic goal?

[G4R]

You will lose the same amount of BF you would lose with just a cutting diet and cardio.

[POPS]

You will lose the same amount of BF you would lose with just a cutting diet and cardio.

agreed. I just came off but I stacked it with tbol for 8 weeks and my weight dropped only by 5 lbs or so but I look totally different. Shirts are on the tight side and my jeans dropped 2 sizes....

diet and cardio is the key.......lots and lots of cardio....

[azz10]

var will never help u lose 5-10% bf. what is your current bf? let what G4R and POPS said, diet and cardio will assist u more than var in terms of losing weight.

[Times Roman]

didn't lose any weight on a var only cycle.

[marcus300]

You will lose the same amount of BF you would lose with just a cutting diet and cardio.

Agreed^^^^^^

[Forbidden16]

You will lose the same amount of BF you would lose with just a cutting diet and cardio.

Actually, wouldn't Anavar's anabolic effects virtually save all muscle that would be lost with a cutting diet and cardio without AAS? Hence, actually losing more BF% due to this?

[40plusnewbie]

There was a study done on middle aged males with low test levels given anavar with no changes in their diets/exercise, they lost weight AND kept it off compared to the group given a placebo.

I did a var only cycle with no cardio, flawed diet, intermittent weight lifting, and lost a good ammt of weight. I was obese at the start of the cycle, age 41 or 42, not obese at end of cycle with very noticble changes in fat content around the mid section.

One characteristic that sets Anavar apart is its unusual fat-burning ability. One study shows that the drug reduced abdominal and visceral fat on subjects with low/normal natural testosterone [1]. In another research, appendicular, total, and trunk lipids were lowered with 20mgs/day of Anavar, without any exercise [2]. In addition to its fat-burning properties, the drug also allows permanent muscle gains. The muscle you get when you use Anavar may not be much, but you got to keep it after you stop taking the drug, as shown by a study wherein the subjects maintained their weight six months after stopping Anavar medication [3]

1. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24
2. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):4863-72.
3. Burns. 2003 Dec;29(8):793-7

[mtb1981]

I lost 25lbs on a var only cycle (30mgs/day), with strength going up. I don't believe the var was responsible for much, if any of that. Although I believe it allowed me to keep the muscle mass I had, and increase my strength.

[Mar-Vell]

Var isnt the best for losing fat man, try clen instead, obviouly with proper diet and cardio as was said

[louiscypher]

There was a study done on middle aged males with low test levels given anavar with no changes in their diets/exercise, they lost weight AND kept it off compared to the group given a placebo.

I did a var only cycle with no cardio, flawed diet, intermittent weight lifting, and lost a good ammt of weight. I was obese at the start of the cycle, age 41 or 42, not obese at end of cycle with very noticble changes in fat content around the mid section.

One characteristic that sets Anavar apart is its unusual fat-burning ability. One study shows that the drug reduced abdominal and visceral fat on subjects with low/normal natural testosterone [1]. In another research, appendicular, total, and trunk lipids were lowered with 20mgs/day of Anavar, without any exercise [2]. In addition to its fat-burning properties, the drug also allows permanent muscle gains. The muscle you get when you use Anavar may not be much, but you got to keep it after you stop taking the drug, as shown by a study wherein the subjects maintained their weight six months after stopping Anavar medication [3]

1. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24
2. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):4863-72.
3. Burns. 2003 Dec;29(8):793-7

I like your style.

[dec11]

There was a study done on middle aged males with low test levels given anavar with no changes in their diets/exercise, they lost weight AND kept it off compared to the group given a placebo.

I did a var only cycle with no cardio, flawed diet, intermittent weight lifting, and lost a good ammt of weight. I was obese at the start of the cycle, age 41 or 42, not obese at end of cycle with very noticble changes in fat content around the mid section.

One characteristic that sets Anavar apart is its unusual fat-burning ability. One study shows that the drug reduced abdominal and visceral fat on subjects with low/normal natural testosterone [1]. In another research, appendicular, total, and trunk lipids were lowered with 20mgs/day of Anavar, without any exercise [2]. In addition to its fat-burning properties, the drug also allows permanent muscle gains. The muscle you get when you use Anavar may not be much, but you got to keep it after you stop taking the drug, as shown by a study wherein the subjects maintained their weight six months after stopping Anavar medication [3]

1. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24
2. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):4863-72.
3. Burns. 2003 Dec;29(8):793-7

didnt you realise the dangers of using aas if you were obese? id attribute your weight loss to reducing cals rather than the var. sorry but your post is irresponsible and sends out a bad message

[magic32]

There was a study done on middle aged males with low test levels given anavar with no changes in their diets/exercise, they lost weight AND kept it off compared to the group given a placebo.

I did a var only cycle with no cardio, flawed diet, intermittent weight lifting, and lost a good ammt of weight. I was obese at the start of the cycle, age 41 or 42, not obese at end of cycle with very noticble changes in fat content around the mid section.

One characteristic that sets Anavar apart is its unusual fat-burning ability. One study shows that the drug reduced abdominal and visceral fat on subjects with low/normal natural testosterone [1]. In another research, appendicular, total, and trunk lipids were lowered with 20mgs/day of Anavar, without any exercise [2]. In addition to its fat-burning properties, the drug also allows permanent muscle gains. The muscle you get when you use Anavar may not be much, but you got to keep it after you stop taking the drug, as shown by a study wherein the subjects maintained their weight six months after stopping Anavar medication [3]

1. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24
2. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):4863-72
3. Burns. 2003 Dec;29(8):793-7

WOW, this thread reads ludicrously!

This logic here is terribly flawed, and it’s quite possible that the vast majority of you are inadvertently, yet still erroneously using the terms ‘weight loss’ and ‘fat loss’ synonymously. At least that’s the way your posts are reading, and this should be corrected because novice bb’ers might misinterpret this error.

In direct accordance AAS were originally designed for one PRIMARY purpose, to rapidly add muscle to the bodies of critically injured burn and accident patients who were often bedridden (unable to exercise or even move) and in most cases unable to eat properly or were fed intravenously.

Thus in apparent contradiction to nearly every post in this thread, Var (or steroid) users DO NOT/CANNOT LOSE WEIGHT (water weight "yes", but not legitimate steroid-induced weight)! The reason for this is rather simple, steroids are designed (regardless of diet and cardio) to PROMOTE muscle weight gain.

Again, all these weight loss posts are bafflingly incongruent with the very nature of steroidal properties, as well as my own experience with Var/Tbol and Var/injectable cycles.

An anabolic steroid, even one that promotes fat loss like Var and possibly Tren, creates such an anabolic environment that actual WEIGHT LOSS, is literally impossible. Let me reiterate this for those who missed it, NOT virtually improbable, but LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE. Again this is STEROIDS 101, and although fat loss – waist sizes, tape measuring, clothes fitting, etc, [BUT NOT THE SCALE] is more than possible based on the diet and cardio components in conjunction with Var’s fat loss assistance, it and all steroids cause DECISIVE WEIGHT GAIN regardless of training or diet. Countless studies have conclusively proved that patients who can’t even move (much less train and eat for muscle growth as we do) have INVARIABLY GAINED WEIGHT using Var and/or other steroids. So for you, a recreational bb’er – one who eats multiple hi-pro meals daily, trains regularly, and lifts efficiently to lose weight on Var would not only defy Var’s purpose and properties, but also be ridiculously impossible with the exception of fluid loss which would still be greatly offset by muscle gain.

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Citing research without reading or understanding it is senseless, nothing you cited supports your position. NO ONE in these studies LOST WEIGHT and therefore couldn't have maintained it. Let’s examine this alleged evidentiary research:

If you’ll reread what you posted, there is ABSOLUTELY NO/ZERO 'weight loss' reported in your excerpt or citations.

So interested was I in the remarkably paradoxical (although quite possibly just misstated) self-reports and your apparently diligent research, that I looked up each individual study. In FULL ACCORD AND CONGRUENCE with all other research and the VERY NATURE of steroids, NONE of the studies you cited (all of which can be swiftly accessed in full abstraction form at the links below) cite weight loss due to Var or any other steroid, INSTEAD, as I’ve stated above they site ONLY 'weight gain', and 'fat loss' which you may have just worded improperly:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8574271
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15472177
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14636753

Note: The last study, though it mentions weight-loss does so only with regard to Var’s restoration (restoring weight that was lost) of it, not incitation (to make weight loss occur).

In summation, it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE, for us (bb’ers) or anyone to lose legitimate weight (not water/fluid weight during pre-contest or similar training) while on an anabolic steroid, because the on-cycle rate of fat loss will ALWAYS be superseded by a steroid’s (even the mildest of ones) anabolism, and since muscle weighs more than fat, and aas forbids the loss of muscle while promoting its development, OVERALL WEIGHT GAIN WILL ALWAYS TAKE PLACE, even in the face of poor nutrition (like those with feeding tubes or intravenously fed) and complete immobility (like that experienced by bedridden critically injured burn/accident victims).

As for those who believe you can lose the “same amount” of bf with cardio and exercise as with Var, this is true! But it’s analogous to saying you can get a car just as clean by repeatedly filling up a bucket of water, as with a spray-nozzled hose. In other words, Var can and has been clinically and statistically proven to burn fat a much faster and more efficient rate than you could without it. If you disbelieve this, please take the time to read ANY Var/Fat-loss study that uses one or more control groups. The benefit to us is, that unlike the controlled sample, we both train hard, alter diets, and use chemical assistance!

----------------------------------

For posterity, please be careful when making statements of perceived fact in an open forum because many novice and less than intelligent people erroneously view consensus as fact. For example, there was a time when the world was by consensus accepted to be flat, which although both observationally and logically sound was still categorically false. Similarly, it was generally (by consensus) accepted that the solar system was earth- rather than helio-centric, which again from the evidence seemed true, but wasn't.

In answer to the original question, the amount of fat that can be lost on Var is solely up to you, and is largely contingent upon how well you align Var's unique fat burning properties with your own diet and training activites.

Best to you.

[Ashop]

I'm planning a var only cycle (may also throw some clen in) @ 40MG/day for 6weeks. I will be watching my diet very strictly (high protein, low carbs, low fat) and be doing cardio 5 days a week @ 40 min/day in addition to doing weights.

How much bodyfat can I be expected to loose? Right now I plan to loose around 20lbs of fat and around 5-10% bodyfat. Is this a realistic goal?

Thats real hard to say by just guessing. It will depend on diet and your cardio,,weight training routine. 2lbs per week loss is a resonable goal.

[dec11]

id consider a low dose of test e/c (instead of var) to stay anti catabolic, drop carbs right down and up your protein accordingly, im shedding bf easily at the moment doing this while keeping my strength and havent even had time for cardio due to work, my exertion is my normal weights routinue. its all in the diet and if id time for cardio it would be falling off me, im sure.

[40plusnewbie]

Before and after pic's (3/4 way down the page) on my var only cycle when I ate shatty far too frequently, did some cardio, and intermittently lifted weights here and there, did some stomach vacuum exercises which helped I surmise:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...+Anavar&page=5

Went from 250lbs. to something like 220lbs. Pic's about 3/4 way down the page. My goal was fat loss. How did I do?

prior cycle experience- I used to own this sweet 3 speed with a
banana seat and a gear shifter on the bar in front of the
seat like a automatic car's gear shifter. It ruled!, trust me.
Best cycle ever IMO!

[40plusnewbie]

Here are some more study ref's on anavar:

1. Proj Inf Perspect. 1997 Nov;(23):19.
2. Burns. 2003 Dec;29(8):793-7
3. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1993 Apr;38(4):393-8.
4. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24
5. jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/84/8/2705
6. Segal S, Cooper J, Bolognia J., Treatment of lipodermatosclerosis with oxandrolone in a patient with stanozolol-induced hepatotoxicity., J Am Acad Dermatol 2000 Sep;43(3):558-9
7. Demling RH., Oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid, enhances the healing of a cutaneous wound in the rat., Wound Repair Regen 2000 Mar-Apr;8(2):97-102
8. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):4863-72.
9. Demling RH, Orgill DP., The anticatabolic and wound healing effects of the testosterone analog oxandrolone after severe burn injury., J Crit Care 2000 Mar;15(1):12-7
10. Hart DW, Wolf SE, Ramzy PI, Chinkes DL, Beauford RB, Ferrando AA, Wolfe RR, Herndon DN., Anabolic effects of oxandrolone after severe burn., Ann Surg 2001 Apr;233(4):556-64
11. Demling RH, DeSanti L., The rate of restoration of body weight after burn injury, using the anabolic agent oxandrolone, is not age dependent., Burns 2001 Feb;27(1):46-51
12. Demling RH, DeSanti L., Oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid, significantly increases the rate of weight gain in the recovery phase after major burns., J Trauma 1997 Jul;43(1):47-51
13. Papadimitriou A, Preece MA, Rolland-Cachera MF, Stanhope R., The anabolic steroid oxandrolone increases muscle mass in prepubertal boys with constitutional delay of growth., J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab 2001 Jun;14(6):725-7
14. Doeker B, Muller-Michaels J, Andler W, Induction of early puberty in a boy after treatment with oxandrolone? Horm Res 1998;50(1):46-8
15. J Appl Physiol 96: 1055-1062, 2004. First published October 24, 2003; doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.00808.2003
8750-7587/04
16. James JS., Wasting syndrome: oral oxandrolone re-released in U.S., AIDS Treat News 1995 Dec 22;(no 237):3-4
17. Drugs. 2004;64(7):725-50.
18. Mt Sinai J Med. 1999 May;66(3):201-5.


I supplemented chemicals to enhance my ability to achieve my goals and was satisfied with the results. And I actually did do some cardio as well.

[40plusnewbie]

didnt you realise the dangers of using aas if you were obese? id attribute your weight loss to reducing cals rather than the var. sorry but your post is irresponsible and sends out a bad message

Anavar will not aromatize. This means that it is one of the very few anabolic steroids that will not convert to estrogen at any dosage.

I also very likely added a few years to my life going from obese to not obese. I had went from 295 lbs. down to 250lbs. and hit a plateau re: weight loss where I stayed at 250lbs. for several months, still obese before the start of the anavar cycle. At the end of the cycle I was something like 220lbs., no longer obese.

My cholesterol was something like 136 at the start of the cycle believe it or not, down from a high of 278 a year or 2 before that. The change was from dietary changes and the use of supplements, no prescriptions for high cholesterol.

I also had low-normal blood pressure.

What risks are you referring to?

My name is 40plusnewbie, not 40plusexpert, if someone takes my posts on steroids to be that of an expert and don't do their own research it might be unfortunate but people are responsible for their own behavior.

I think the cycle benefited me greatly and posed very minimal risks. Oh yeah, I also bought milk thistle by the pound and ate copious amounts of it.

[dec11]

Anavar will not aromatize. This means that it is one of the very few anabolic steroids that will not convert to estrogen at any dosage.

I also very likely added a few years to my life going from obese to not obese. I had went from 295 lbs. down to 250lbs. and hit a plateau re: weight loss where I stayed at 250lbs. for several months, still obese before the start of the anavar cycle. At the end of the cycle I was something like 220lbs., no longer obese.

My cholesterol was something like 136 at the start of the cycle believe it or not, down from a high of 278 a year or 2 before that. The change was from dietary changes and the use of supplements, no prescriptions for high cholesterol.

I also had low-normal blood pressure.

What risks are you referring to?

My name is 40plusnewbie, not 40plusexpert, if someone takes my posts on steroids to be that of an expert and don't do their own research it might be unfortunate but people are responsible for their own behavior.

I think the cycle benefited me greatly and posed very minimal risks. Oh yeah, I also bought milk thistle by the pound and ate copious amounts of it.

all aas can raise bp and being overweight increases tht problem drastically. im not tryin to bust your balls, any1 with exp on hear will say aas and carrying to much weight can be a problematic combination. btw way, liv-52 is a better choice for liver protection, milk thistle hasnt got much evidence to support its use

[40plusnewbie]

all aas can raise bp and being overweight increases tht problem drastically. im not tryin to bust your balls, any1 with exp on hear will say aas and carrying to much weight can be a problematic combination. btw way, liv-52 is a better choice for liver protection, milk thistle hasnt got much evidence to support its use

What do you think about my before and after pics, the results?

[G4R]

What do you think about my before and after pics, the results?

So, are you saying that you would recommend Anavar to someone looking to lose BF?

[40plusnewbie]

So, are you saying that you would recommend Anavar to someone looking to lose BF?

No I am not and would not say that. I would recommend a sound nutritional program, but depending on the person's stage of change and my best guess of their ability to be consistent, I may recommend setting small, reasonable goals for someone obese or morbidly obese. I would also recommend cardio/exercise, again, with different short-term mini-goals based on the person's readiness for change/ability.

[G4R]

No I am not and would not say that. I would recommend a sound nutritional program, but depending on the person's stage of change and my best guess of their ability to be consistent, I may recommend setting small, reasonable goals for someone obese or morbidly obese. I would also recommend cardio/exercise, again, with different short-term mini-goals based on the person's readiness for change/ability.

Well I have seen your pics, and I will admit that you did very well, but, even with var, and even with the results you had, I could never recommend to someone with a high BF% to run any steroid, even var. Regardless of the fact that it does aromatize, any steroid can cause elevated blood pressure, and raise cholesterol levels, especially in someone with a high BF%.

Again, you had good results, but I still see the risk ratio as outweighing the benifit ratio for someone with high BF.

Just my opinion

[40plusnewbie]

Well I have seen your pics, and I will admit that you did very well, but, even with var, and even with the results you had, I could never recommend to someone with a high BF% to run any steroid, even var. Regardless of the fact that it does aromatize, any steroid can cause elevated blood pressure, and raise cholesterol levels, especially in someone with a high BF%.

Again, you had good results, but I still see the risk ratio as outweighing the benifit ratio for someone with high BF.

Just my opinion

My cholesterol at the start of the cycle was 136! Not much risk as that is excellent prob better than 90% of the people on this forum, if not more, and I was obese at the time.

I had low-normal bp as well. So not the average fattie. The underlying factors such as those make a big difference. I would guess that someone younger, not obese, and with high bp and high cholesterol would be at greater risk than I was given those factors.

I could be wrong as I am no expert but I had huge latitude for cholesterol jump. And my bp has always been good, even when I was 295lbs. Thursday it was 100 over 64.

[G4R]

My cholesterol at the start of the cycle was 136! Not much risk as that is excellent (1) prob better than 90% of the people on this forum, if not more, and I was obese at the time.

(2) I had low-normal bp as well. So not the average fattie. The underlying factors such as those make a big difference. (3) I would guess that someone younger, not obese, and with high bp and high cholesterol would be at greater risk than I was given those factors.

1) That may be true, and having that thought for me would be all the more reason not to suggest any steroid until proper cholesterol readings were done.

2) Again, if your blood pressure was lower than the average person that was your size, then the more reason not to suggest any steroid.

3) You would be right. Someone who is younger, and doesnt have a high BF%, but, had high blood pressure and high cholesterol levels would be at risk, but that is why we try to tell people to get their bloodwork done, and get proper testing done.

Even as you said, you would recommend that cardio and diet be the key, but you also said that given certain change of stage, and their ability to stay consistant, you would have no problem recommending a steroid such as Anavar. Why recommend a steroid, when a steroid is not needed to accomplish their goal?

People who want to use steroids to accomplish a goal they can obtain naturally are looking for a short cut. People who are looking for the short cut to obtain their goal, odds are they dont have the dedication to get there.

[40plusnewbie]

1) but you also said that given certain change of stage, and their ability to stay consistant, you would have no problem recommending a steroid such as Anavar.

I don't believe I ever said this. What I would recommend to someone who would unlikely be able to be consistent is to set baby goals of a certain number of meal substitutions per week, if they eat bad 95% of the time maybe a first step is to focus on eating good 15% of the time rather than 5% of the time. At 295lbs. I was hopeless and believed that I was so fat it was hopeless, I would never be able to loose 75lbs so why even try. Which would make me depressed and I would eat more because I was depressed. When I started to look at my situation differently, focusing on what I could accomplish on a particular day, eating a healthy dinner instead of fast food... I started to see results. The results gave me hope, I entered a positive cycle of change that fed off itself, getting me down to 250lbs. Then I got stuck. I was at 250lbs for like 5-6 months then made a decision to use anavar to kickstart more positive change in the form of reducing bf after studying the risk factors of the substance and looking into how my particular situation fit re: risk.
Since I had excellent cholesterol readings and low/normal blood pressure, being hairy as an ape with very thick hair, I decided that I was not at any high risk. Blood pressure is easy to self monitor.

I used anavar as a short cut. I am glad I did. I understood the risks vs. rewards in my particular case pretty well I think. Now I am not obese which definitely reduces my chances of re-developing high cholesterol (it was as high as 278 at one point, I knocked it back with nutrition and supplements) or developing high blood pressure or diabetes which I would be at increased risk for if I remained obese. So my, IMO, relatively low risk short cut was very effective in not only changing my body image and improving my self esteem (a minor benefit) it was also very effective in helping me kick start a process of avoiding developing risk factors of early death that are often associated with obesity.

This does not mean that I would recommend anyone else do it. I made a choice to do it for myself and am glad I did. I don't consider myself qualified to give advice on steroid use to others, I just shared my personal experience in doing so in a thread/log. Whenever I talk about var to someone in real life, like my bro in law who is a body builder who thought it was impossible to obtain steroids any longer in the usa, I warn him of the risks and encourage him to be mindful of all the risk factors, particularly the HBP/ High Cholesterol. I also just shared my personal experience with him, I do not encourage the use of steroids for anyone, at least I don't think I do.

If someone wants to interpret my sharing my personal experience as encouraging someone, well, I am only responsible for what I say, I am not responsible for what someone else might think I mean.

[BJJ]

Diet is the key, either to grow and to cut.

by "Whole Body Hologic QDR-4500W DXA Fan-Beam Scanner"

[40plusnewbie]

Diet is the key, either to grow and to cut.

I know this and agree with it 100%.

If my diet had been better, and my exercise/weight lifting regimen had been better, my results would have been better. That does not mean what I did was not helpful at the time though, even though my diet was spotty (I could have lost more fat weight) and my weight lifting was intermittent (I could have built more muscle). And it certainly doesn't mean that it was completely ineffective.

Now my diet and exercise/lifting are both better. I have more muscle and less fat and weigh more than I did when I finished that cycle.

I took a lot of shit for doing that cycle, but the results speak for themselves. I was not some reckless 18y.o., I was an educated 41 y.o. man who made a decision after doing research, and the results of that decision were more than satisfactory with me, and at no time was I at high risk for anything as a result of that decision.

I was stuck at 250lbs. for like 5-6 months, still obese, after loosing 45lbs in the previous ~ 6 months through diet alone, where I was morbidly obese. Then a few months later, poof.... obesity gone, risk factors associated with obesity gone. Self image improved.

I read your log thread yesterday and found it very interesting. Thanks for sharing that.

Again, I agree 100% that diet is key to both fat loss and muscle gain.