4 pack by the end of august... is it possible? (pic included)

[tripmachine]

Hey I asked this question actually in another thread of mine here but I think I asked it on like response #39 or something so it probably wasn't seen by many people. I have a few questions for anyone that has a moment to answer or give me their views on them. Thanks a lot!

1. What bf% would you say you'd have to be at to have a 4 pack flexed.... not necessarily just standing there but flexing and it being visible?

2. from looking at my picture below do you think I can achieve my short term goal of getting a 4 pack in that amount of time? From now - august 31st....?

3. I've been on tren e for 1 week at 400mg / week and I'm running test prop to kick start as well as test e at 500mg / week.... I'm ordering some t3 and clen today from lion so hopefully that will get here soon... I have a strict clean diet and just started cardio in the a.m. for 45 mins 3-5 times a week and will keep lifting in the p.m. 5 times a week. Think I can achieve my goal while still building some LBM?

Any opinions are welcome and advice will be greatly appreciated.... I already bet 5 different people $100 dollars that I could do it by Aug. 31st..... mainly I did so as yet another big motivator for me to work as hard as I possibly can to achieve this goal. Hopefully I didn't make a bet that is too difficult to achieve in that time span. I've never had a 4 pack or 6 pack in my life and would love to get one.... thanks again!

[abbot138]

I'd say about 11-12%ish for flexed fourpack. And yes you can absolutel do this. Whats diet like? Cardio needs to be 5 days a week, not 3-5. Make sure you are doing heavy deads and heavt squats, these will both help abs come out, in addition to whatever your normal ab routine is. 6 weeks is plenty of time to get to where you need to be. Good luck.

[Dukkit]

totally possible. the question is... do you have the drive and dedication to achieve said goal?

like abbot says, up the cardio. what type of cardio do you do? do you switch it up? run, stair climb, eliptical, row, bike?

whats your calorie intake, fats, carbs,protein?

cardio in the morning on an empty stomach right?

the tren, test, and clen will help immensly with your goal. but diet and cardio is the largest part of that. the tren and what not will just help add to it.

[tripmachine]

well i can't break it down into exacts for you but here is basically what it is....

wake up and have a shake (9:00a.m. )
50g protein (sustained release)
1 cup frozen strawberries
serving of raw oats
in water
1/4 serving of organic pb for flavor... (i will cut this out if need be)

12:00 p.m. (noon)
7 egg whites + 1 egg scrambled
3 pieces of flaxseed toast
serving of grapes or some sort of fruit

3:00 p.m.
This meal isn't the same everyday but I usually will have brown rice with chicken breast..... or I will have a can of tuna on 2 pieces of flaxseed bread.......

4:45 p.m.
apple and some gatorade.... drink the gatorade during my workout as well...

5:15 p.m. - workout

7:00 p.m. - PWO shake
2 scoops isopure zero carb (use this for flavor i'm addicted to)
in water
serving raw oats
1 cup frozen strawberries

9:00 p.m. (dinner)
will either have another tuna sandwich on flax bread or some brown rice and chicken breast..... or something similar...

midnight (pre sleep)
sustained release protein (40-50g protein)
1 serving almonds
or
1 serving almonds and 1 cup cottage cheese.....



I will take your advice and bump up my cardio then.... what if i did 3 days in the a.m. and did 2 days in the p.m.?? Also if you had to guess.... what bf% would you say I was? I'm 6'2" and weight around 200-205 lbs. me being at 12% would be the leanest i've ever been.... I hope i make it because I'd prefer to keep my 500 dollars AND have a 4 pack... :] Thanks a lot! Oh yeah one more thing... I can't do heavy squats... I tore my ACL a while back and have not had surgery on it yet.... I do squats on the smith rack but they sure aren't as heavy as I wish I could do... sometimes i get a ticky / popping noise coming from my knee so I have to keep the weight around 135 - 185 on the smith rack... ( i know that is pretty pathetic but I still need to make it so I can walk out of the gym and continue on with my daily life) I'm not in the position to where I can get surgery yet and the recovery is like 8-10 months from what I have been told.

[tripmachine]

totally possible. the question is... do you have the drive and dedication to achieve said goal?

like abbot says, up the cardio. what type of cardio do you do? do you switch it up? run, stair climb, eliptical, row, bike?

whats your calorie intake, fats, carbs,protein?

cardio in the morning on an empty stomach right?

the tren, test, and clen will help immensly with your goal. but diet and cardio is the largest part of that. the tren and what not will just help add to it.

I do have the drive to do this... I just got out of a VERY long term relationship and it came to me as a BIG SHOCK.... I think that is driving me more than anything right now.

Lately I've been doing cardio on the eliptical since it's pretty easy on my knee... (torn acl) running isn't a good option for me but I used to do a lot of incline walking as well.... I guess I should ask how often should cardio be changed up? Should I do something new for cardio each time? Like monday-eliptical, tues-bike, wed.-incline walking, thurs-stairs, etc.... ? I will be doing my cardio in the a.m. on an empty stomach.... i have learned that's the most efficient way for fat burning..

I posted what my diet looks like above but I don't have the exact numbers for you right at the moment.... I will actually try to figure all of that out and post them up...


Oh yeah one question I had that I forgot to mention..... People always say tren will make your cardio disappear.... does that mean I won't have the ability to do high intensity cardio? or does that mean if i'm trying to do some cardio in the a.m. for 45 minutes I won't be able to do it ???? If that's the case wouldn't tren be counter productive for my goals of trying to get a 4 pack in 6 weeks?

Thanks!

[Dukkit]

well from a quick look at your diet, i see way to many carbs. i would only keep the carbs at breakfast (after the gym) and in your postwork out meal (after the gym). the rest of the meals should be lean protien. instead of eatin 1 can of tuna with bread, eat 2 cans tuna, no bread. get me? having the PB in the morning i dont think is a good thing. you dont really want those fats right when you wake up. and your eating that shake after you do your cardio right? cardio on an empty stomach is a must. but not fats after cardio.

also, not sure if its a big deal. but you have a sustained release protein in the morning? i would just use a whey protien, you will want that protein in you ASAP upon waking/after cardio

that sucks about your ACL. so just concentrate a decent ab regimen though and you will see them take shape still.

you can do cardio 3 days in the morn (again..on an empty stomach) and 2 days in pm. it wont be as good as all 5 days in the am. but it will work.

make sure your switching up your cardio routine also. dont just do the eliptical every day. your body gets used to that. so ride a stationary bike one day, run one day, eliptical and so on. doesnt have to be a different thing everyday but just make sure to switch it up every few days.

[abbot138]

Yeah loose the pb at breakfast, no need (I know it tastes damn good ) Ummm, lose the apple Pre-workout and ditch the gatorade all together, you dont need the insulin spike, especially when trying to cut fast....Sorry to hear about the ACL, so much for squats, lol....Thats fine with the cardio, as long as you are doing it, everyone has different views on cardio, but the important thing is just DOING IT! Food choices are pretty good, presonally, I would lose the bread and rice and replace with sweet potatoes. Other than that, I say it all looks pretty good, hard to really say bc you dont have total macros listed. Not real sure on BF just based off this one pic, maybe 16%?????Hard to say.

[Dukkit]

well you posted right before i did. so i asked some questions you already answered. so ignore them

yes, tren will kill your cardio. but it will also help strip fat. for me thats a tough choice. i would drop the tren. and really focus on the cardio. but thats me, others would rather have the tren

you dont have to the change your cardio exercise everyday. every few days. or even every week. as long as you dont do the same exact thing everytime. like run for 3 miles at 30 mins for those 5 days. like one day run the 3 miles at 10 mins then the next time try and beat that.

[tripmachine]

Here are some more pictures of me just so you can get maybe a better idea of what i'm working with...

http://forums.steroid.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=40


I will take your both of your advice you have given me on the diet / cardio..... I want this more than ever and will probably have a better life in the process anyways... :] Just so you know the flaxseed bread is 15 carbs for 2 slices.... so 3 slices would be roughly 22 carbs..... they are smaller than most slices of bread... not sure if that means anything to you but I know most bread has way more carbs than that..... Also would i be able to be in an anabolic state while trying to achieve this goal and dieting the way you guys say I should? I would feel like i'm wasting the test / tren if I'm not going to be able to build some LBM while trying to melt away my body fat.... anyway Thanks again guys!

[tripmachine]

Also my PWO SHAKE will have oats and strawberries which is fine from what you guys seem to think right? What about the 9:00 p.m. meal? should that strictly be protein? should my pwo shake be my last carb intake meal which would be at about 7 p.m. each night? bed time is going to be around 12:30 a.m. each night..... wake up is going to change to 7 a.m. each morning ..... cardio until 8 then i'll use a whey isolate instead of the sustained release protein.... i'll still add the strawberries and raw oats... anyway thanks for taking your time to help me out!

[Dukkit]

you can have the oats in the morning shake. i dont know about the strawberries. the oats and strawberries will be fine in your afternoon shake.

yes if i was you, i would make you PWO shake your last meal with carbs.

yes, if you eat the proper amount of protein and drink enough water.. you will stay in an anabolic state. even with less carbs.

right now i wouldnt be focusing to hard on tryin to gain lean body mass. gaining and cutting will have to be seperate in order to see the results you seek. so focus on cutting. if you work out right, and eat right, you will lose fat and not burn off muscle. the things and ideas we have brought up to you will make that happen.

[tripmachine]

you can have the oats in the morning shake. i dont know about the strawberries. the oats and strawberries will be fine in your afternoon shake.

yes if i was you, i would make you PWO shake your last meal with carbs.

yes, if you eat the proper amount of protein and drink enough water.. you will stay in an anabolic state. even with less carbs.

right now i wouldnt be focusing to hard on tryin to gain lean body mass. gaining and cutting will have to be seperate in order to see the results you seek. so focus on cutting. if you work out right, and eat right, you will lose fat and not burn off muscle. the things and ideas we have brought up to you will make that happen.

awesome! Thanks for the advice.... did you click the link I supplied you with a few posts ago? Do you think I even have enough muscle right now to cut up? I think I'm just scared of cutting too much and finding out I don't have all that much muscle..... So I don't really want to be a skinny type cut.... I mean..... not sure if you catch what I'm trying to say. Bottom line is I want to appear to be somewhat muscular with a 4 pack..... I guess i'm just afraid since I have never been that lean or down to 12% bf before I think I may look like I have even less muscle than the little muscle i currently have....

[Dukkit]

just looked at your pics. wow! great job from what you were to what you are now.

you definitly have a nice muscle base. your not huge but you know that. how tall are you. i dont remember seeing that anywhere.

if you focus on cutting right now, and you get decently lean, you will actually look like you have bigger muscles then you do now. the lean look gives an illusion of that. also once you cut to a decent percentage, when you decide to bulk, it will be that much easier to keep the fat from coming back and getting those nice muscle gains on top of it. so i think you will look just fine if you cut for a bit. i wont pick on ya.. i promise

[abbot138]

Duk covered it all....Yeah I think 16% or 17% sounds about right. Congrats on the progress you have already made bro! And no I dont think 12% will be a problem. Just work hard, eat right and it will happen.

[Dukkit]

Duk covered it all....Yeah I think 16% or 17% sounds about right. Congrats on the progress you have already made bro! And no I dont think 12% will be a problem. Just work hard, eat right and it will happen.

Hi five bro!!! haha

[tripmachine]

just looked at your pics. wow! great job from what you were to what you are now.

you definitly have a nice muscle base. your not huge but you know that. how tall are you. i dont remember seeing that anywhere.

if you focus on cutting right now, and you get decently lean, you will actually look like you have bigger muscles then you do now. the lean look gives an illusion of that. also once you cut to a decent percentage, when you decide to bulk, it will be that much easier to keep the fat from coming back and getting those nice muscle gains on top of it. so i think you will look just fine if you cut for a bit. i wont pick on ya.. i promise

haha ok cool... sounds good to me... :] i'm 6'2 and weigh anywhere from 195- 210.... depending on the week / day.... I usually weigh between 200-205lbs though. I can't wait to keep seeing some improvements!

[tripmachine]

Duk covered it all....Yeah I think 16% or 17% sounds about right. Congrats on the progress you have already made bro! And no I dont think 12% will be a problem. Just work hard, eat right and it will happen.

Cool, thanks abbot! I'm glad i found this forum because without it I feel I would be at a GREAT disadvantage..... without the kind of knowledge you and duk have been sharing with me. :] I will actually come back here and bump this thread back up when I have some results to share with you...

[abbot138]

Cool, looking forward to it. Yeah I cant even begin to tell you how much this board has helped my development

[abbot138]

Hi five bro!!! haha

Yessir

[tripmachine]

Oh yeah I forgot to ask this..... do you guys suggest I still have a cheat meal or meals at all during each week while trying to do this to keep me sane? Not sure what your views are on this but i'd love to hear them... Thanks

[AdamGH]

Oh yeah I forgot to ask this..... do you guys suggest I still have a cheat meal or meals at all during each week while trying to do this to keep me sane? Not sure what your views are on this but i'd love to hear them... Thanks

most definitely! Think of your cheat meal as your reward for eating all week so well.

[abbot138]

Yup, just make sure it is only a cheat meal! And try to account for it in your daily macros so that your calories arent completely out of whack for that day.

[tripmachine]

Yup, just make sure it is only a cheat meal! And try to account for it in your daily macros so that your calories arent completely out of whack for that day.

speaking of macros...... with this goal I have in mind what kind of protein, carb and fat intake should I be consuming per day? I'm 6'2" 200-205 lbs. I'm guessing the protein should be around 350-400g / day? what about carb intake? I understand what kind of carbs are good and what are bad but I'm just curious on the actual grams I should be intaking daily (keeping in mind i'm on tren, test and soon t3/clen) :] My PWO shake alone has about 50-60g carbs.... morning shake after cardio has about the same....

[abbot138]

Welllll, I absolutely hate low-carb cutting. I am from the Nark school of cutting, lol....This thread basically explains my views on cutting, take it for what its worth, but thats really all that I can offer bc I dont practice the traditional low carb method. But it look from your diet that this might be more of what you are looking for. I can tell you that it got me from about 15.5% to about 10% in around 6 weeks. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=351929 ..........Let me know if you have questions.

[SuperLift]

LOL funny you say you just got out of a long relationship. Can't be fat anymore that's what sucks about bein single. Gotta stay lean. When you have a girl it's ok to be chubby LOL

[abbot138]

LOL funny you say you just got out of a long relationship. Can't be fat anymore that's what sucks about bein single. Gotta stay lean. When you have a girl it's ok to be chubby LOL

Shiiit yeah, I miss those days, never-ending bulking ............Gimme an update bro, you got your 4-pack going?

[tripmachine]

Hey my cardio was great the week before last..... then last week i was really sick with a horrible cold and took the whole week off... wasn't at work for 3 of the days too so that kind of sucked.. This week i've been back on lifting and cardio and am feeling great!! I started my t3 and clen one week ago from today and that is sure raising my body temp nicely and helping me sweat quite a bit more throughout the day. So far i've been feeling great and to tell you the truth i don't notice too much difference visually but then again i'm staring at myself each day in the mirror so it's harder to notice without before / after pics so i've been snapping some pictures and documenting the dates etc.. I will keep you guys posted and will add some pictures after i've been going at it a bit longer. The week off makes me feel like i'm behind schedule now.. it's ok though, this will come for me still. :]

[Reed]

Bro, how many drugs are you taking, 5???!!?? Try looking into putting your body into ketosis, which is eliminating carbs that spike insulin and makes your body burn fat for energy. You shouldn't have a physical drop but then again I don't know with the base you started with. How is your training? I looked at your forum with your chest and the best way to train would be slow, full reps. Make sure your training to shape not working out your ego. I personally have had to correct myself numerous time, at this stage you want to be able to feel the muscle fibers "pop". Good luck!!

[abbot138]

Hey my cardio was great the week before last..... then last week i was really sick with a horrible cold and took the whole week off... wasn't at work for 3 of the days too so that kind of sucked.. This week i've been back on lifting and cardio and am feeling great!! I started my t3 and clen one week ago from today and that is sure raising my body temp nicely and helping me sweat quite a bit more throughout the day. So far i've been feeling great and to tell you the truth i don't notice too much difference visually but then again i'm staring at myself each day in the mirror so it's harder to notice without before / after pics so i've been snapping some pictures and documenting the dates etc.. I will keep you guys posted and will add some pictures after i've been going at it a bit longer. The week off makes me feel like i'm behind schedule now.. it's ok though, this will come for me still. :]

Yeah, pics def help. I try and take one a week, to track progress. Waist measurements help too. Dont listen to guy below, Keto sucks.

[Reed]

Tell that to michael liberatore who got 2nd at the USA's and go look at his pics. Who you gonna take advice from the guy who has run all kinds of drugs and still isn't over 180 or the guy who has never run any AAS and is close to 220

[abbot138]

Saaaawwweeeettt guy, go spend some time in the diet section, my comment wasnt about comparing me to you or about weight, or about what drugs he is or isnt running, cutting isnt about drugs, its about diet and Keto sucks, I dont give a fvck about Michael Liberatore, thats awesome that it works for him, doesnt change the fact that its an out-dated, shiiity way to cut....Go post your thoughts on Keto in the diet section and see how many people agree with you.

[Reed]

Yeah thats good and those people that give you the advice look like what now??? You've seen their albums. No offense to them. Brandon curry did his low carb diet and was no where near as conditioned as liberatore was. Yes keto is not the best if your natural, but you all are on all sorts of drugs.

[Reed]

I'm done here no need to argue. There are many ways to diet, I just look at who is has the best conditioning and look into there diet.

[abbot138]

Yeah thats good and those people that give you the advice look like what now??? You've seen their albums. No offense to them. Brandon curry did his low carb diet and was no where near as conditioned as liberatore was. Yes keto is not the best if your natural, but you all are on all sorts of drugs.

Yeah I read your profile guy. Pro-hormones are drugs, LMAO....You Pro-hormone guys call yourself all-natural, when the fact is your just too scared to use real aas, so your using a watered-down version....By the way Pro-hormones in most cases can cause much more long term health problems than aas.....Im not getting into a debate with you about gear....Just go to the diet section type in Keto in the search key....Must people that post questions about it dont even get responses because it is so inferior to just about every other method of cutting....I dont want to argue with you. Different strokes for different folks, if it works for you, than thats fine.

[Dukkit]

oh man, here we go. now children. be nice.

[Reed]

I when did i say I was natural?? just no aas. read what I actually wrote not make up something in your head to make yourself look better. You guys use illegal drugs to make up for you lack of dedication thinking thats the answer. There are many naturals that achieve your results without drugs. The only reason I haven't started is cause its dry around here, really can't go to your local walmart and pick some up. And show me the proof that prohormones are worse for you then aas. In reality there on the same level as aas just haven't been banned yet. But people think that just caused there sold legally there not great.

[abbot138]

I when did i say I was natural?? just no aas. read what I actually wrote not make up something in your head to make yourself look better. You guys use illegal drugs to make up for you lack of dedication thinking thats the answer. There are many naturals that achieve your results without drugs. The only reason I haven't started is cause its dry around here, really can't go to your local walmart and pick some up. And show me the proof that prohormones are worse for you then aas. In reality there on the same level as aas just haven't been banned yet. But people think that just caused there sold legally there not great.

I said that because you keep saying "you guys"....Look you contradicted yourself in your own statement....You accuse "us" of using "illegal" drugs, like the fact that a drug is legal or not has anything to do with its effectiveness...and then at the end of your statement say, just bc PH's are legal doesnt mean they dont work, your making my point for me, just bc they're legal doesnt mean they arent drugs or are any safer or healthier than aas....My point is your the pot calling the kettle black, im sure PH's do work, but dont accuse people of using "all kinds" of drugs when you use drugs that by your own admission are on the same level, especially when you are trying to get these same drugs that you are ridiculing. Pathetic. And dont ever criticize my level of dedication, you havent been around the board long enough to know who's who on here, ask someone, nutrition and training are my life. My main point in all of this is that regardless of what drugs you use, its all useless without proper nutrition. And its ironic that you question my lack of dedication and then promote Keto, which is basically just the lazy mans form of cutting. High input, higher output my friend, thats how you should cut. Keto is a poor diet for soooo many reasons. Whats the point of looking good, if your not getting proper nutrition while doing it.

[Reed]

Your right buddy your much better and have more knowledge than I. And all 220 lbs of me is pathetic, I know. I was the pot calling the kettle black cause every form seems to look at the legal forms of aas and believe they are inferior and ineffective when in reality they are one in the same. Just because they are not illegal does not mean they are not legit. But I have never heard keto being called a lazy man's diet though. I've always heard its the hardest diet to follow due to fact you in take no carbs. I'm getting my ideas from top level athletes in bodybuilding and this is what they are telling me. I also look at there conditioning when contest ready and see who is sharper. One who is competing in next years Jr. USA's said he switched from the carb cycling diet to the keto and came in much sharper in his last contest. There are many ways to diet down. I'm not gonna argue on this man's thread, he wanted questions I gave him my thoughts and you and I turned it into a pissing contest. We are both pathetic.

[Dukkit]

blah blah blah. let me pack a lunch for you guys. cuz im bout to take your asses to school.

hahaha

[abbot138]

Your right buddy your much better and have more knowledge than I. And all 220 lbs of me is pathetic, I know. I was the pot calling the kettle black cause every form seems to look at the legal forms of aas and believe they are inferior and ineffective when in reality they are one in the same. Just because they are not illegal does not mean they are not legit. But I have never heard keto being called a lazy man's diet though. I've always heard its the hardest diet to follow due to fact you in take no carbs. I'm getting my ideas from top level athletes in bodybuilding and this is what they are telling me. I also look at there conditioning when contest ready and see who is sharper. One who is competing in next years Jr. USA's said he switched from the carb cycling diet to the keto and came in much sharper in his last contest. There are many ways to diet down. I'm not gonna argue on this man's thread, he wanted questions I gave him my thoughts and you and I turned it into a pissing contest. We are both pathetic.

LOL! Your right, I apologize bro. To each his own. All the best.