Trying SQ few ?s

[Mario L]

I started today SQ. Keeping my current dose at 60mg 2x week, 250 iu hcg 3x week and no AI. My E2 sensitive was 38 (3-70). I felt good. I figured I would try to get it down to mid 20's to see if I felt even better. I tried .50 adex 2xW. Then .25 2xW finally .125 2x week. I felt low E2 symptom on all AI dosages. So I'm gonna go with out it. Now my question is will my E2 be lower by going SQ. Also do you aspirate on a SQ shot. I did anyway but wasn't sure. I do feel a slight lump at the injection site nothing major, but it seems sore almost like irritated from the alcohol swab maybe. Also should you massage the injection area? Last one, how many weeks should I wait for new BW to see how I'm responding to the SQ therapy. Thanks.

[Vettester]

Nothing wrong with that E2 score if it works for you. Honestly, I'm at my best when it's in the 30'sh range.

Don't worry about aspirating. You're not injecting IM. Sometimes the injection area will get a little irritated, it comes and goes when you pin via sub-q. The lump also happens from time to time. YES, massaging it in a little seems to help. Definitely rotate your injection sites.

If there wasn't any confusion with the AI, I would tell you to go back in 3 months for the fact that you've been getting labs on a regular basis. BUT, since there's the concern with the E2, I would suggest 6 weeks; no more than 8 weeks (JMO). Keep in mind, you might start seeing similar symptoms if your E2 starts increasing. Personally, I think you will need at least a little AI at some point ... I don't think you will be lucky enough to fully escape seeing a increased rate of E2 being converted from T. Did you have a previous E2 score to compare against the current labs?

Just an FYI, I'm basically on the exact same protocol with the Test and HCG. I'm taking .25mg x 2/wk of Anastrozole.

[keep fightin]

^^^^ right on the money.VM said what most would agree with, interesting to see bw in 6 weeks or so, good questions, post your results!

[bass]

i agree with Vette! you could be one of those who don't convert easily, like our member JohnnyVagas, but BW will tell you more. if you're like everyone else and at that dose of test you may end up doing 0.5mg 12-24 hours after each injection. i also agree with Vette regarding E2 in the 30s, i too feel much better at that range. the only side i get from that range is water retention.

[Mario L]

My pre treatment in October labs
E2 24 (10-40) pg/ml
Total T 326 (240-950) ng/dl
Tsh 3.24 (.35-5.5) uiu/ml

6 weeks after treatment
Tsh 2.69 (.45-4.50) uiu/ml
Total t 899 (348-1197) ng/ dl
Free t 23.91 (5-21) ng/ dl
% free 2.66 (1.5-4.20)
E2 38 (3-70)

[Mario L]

I think because my test is higher I need the higher e2 to balance it out. There is definataly some T to E conversion otherwise my e2 would have stayed at my pre trt of 24. Right? My hope is my t levels stay the same and my e2 stays steady or lowers with the SQ method.

[Vettester]

I know there's some debate with SQ -vs- IM subject, and if it will make a difference on the amount of conversion to E2. IMO, I don't think it's going to make really any difference, but that's just my opinion. Yes, based on the comparative values of the two labs, it's obvious that you're prone to the aromatization process with HRT. You need to be careful about going too long without any AI. Possibly your dosage was just dropping your E2 too fast, I dunno. However, if it were me, I might let the dust settle for another week or so, then possibly try the .25 x 2/wk. Or, if possible, just go get a E2 test done right now, maybe even at a place like privatelabsmd.com, so that you can see exactly what it is. Could be just some other related sides to the medication. The last thing I want to hear is you waited and waited without any AI, and your labs now show your E2 at 60 or something like it.

[Mario L]

I hear what your saying. .50 might have knocked the e2 low fast and even though I lowered the dose my e2 was still low. I'll go with the .25 2 x week and see how I feel. Before on .25 I had night sweats, clicky joints and lower back pain, Also libito wasn't as strong.

[Mario L]

I'm 2 weeks into SQ with 4 injections of 60mg. I still have lumps at the pin sites. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong here? I massaged the sites for a minute after.

[kelkel]

Just push it in real slow. I alternate with IM and SQ and it works great. I've yet to have a lump at all, but I take about a minute to inject....

[lovbyts]

try cutting the injections in 1/2. I got a lump and sore when I was injecting .75mg. I cut it down to 50 and had no problem You can also try going in a little deeper.

[Mario L]

Thanks fellas. So you think I should inject straight in rather than a 45 degree angle.

[bullshark99]

My guess would be staright down and deep. I did some HcG last week at an exagerated angle and I still have a bit of a lump, finally going away. Could only imagine if I was using T. As already suggested, keep a close eye on E2 if you are gonna try to go without.

[JohnnyVegas]

My E2 was up slightly to 36 (range <63) on my last BW. My doc said that was still good, but that we don't want it much higher. Everyone is different, so only you will know if you feel better in the 20s or 30s.

[JD250]

Thanks fellas. So you think I should inject straight in rather than a 45 degree angle.

I found that using at least a 1/2 inch needle and going STRAIGHT in and deep, injecting very slowly kept me from getting lumps and I inject a full 1ml once a week.

[brazey]

Also warming the test a little will help. I put my vial in a cup of hot tap water for about 5 minutes. It not only helps with drawing & injection but I seldom get lumps anymore. Rub after injecting for a few minutes too.

[bass]

Also warming the test a little will help. I put my vial in a cup of hot tap water for about 5 minutes. It not only helps with drawing & injection but I seldom get lumps anymore. Rub after injecting for a few minutes too.

i don't have any scientific information on this, but heating and cooling meds may have some negative effects on them, thats why most meds states to store in a room temperature or keep in between certain temperatures, if you have to heat it then heat the syringe after you draw, that way you keep the vial temp consistent. JMHO!

[brazey]

Good point.

[Mario L]

Well I'm giving up on the sq. I'm 3 weeks and 6 shots in and I have 6 lumps under my skin. I could see the most recent 2 while looking in the mirror. Back to the muscles.

[JD250]

Damn, sorry to hear that, I wonder why some people have more trouble with the lumps, BF%? perhaps you aren't fat enough

[bass]

Well I'm giving up on the sq. I'm 3 weeks and 6 shots in and I have 6 lumps under my skin. I could see the most recent 2 while looking in the mirror. Back to the muscles.

did you massage for at least one minute after injection?!

[Mario L]

JD I believe I have enough fat on my stomach. Not sure % but it's enough.
And yes Bass I massaged the area for over a minute probably more like 2. Sucks cause I wanted to compare the 2 methods with bloodwork.

[bass]

Mario, i did 40 mgs last night and there is no bump today, so maybe smaller dose to avoid the lump! BTW just to explain the 40 mgs i started eod test and hCG.

[brazey]

Mario, I had lumps at every injection site too when I was doing anything above 50mgs. In fact, even at 50mgs I still get a tiny lump but almost not noticeable. It takes weeks for my lumps to dissolve but they do go away. Like bass said try a lower dose but more often and you might be happy.

[Viking13]

So if your on 200mg a week and split the dosage at 100mg every 3.5 days would sq not be optimum, or does it vary from person to person in terms of ability to absorb?

[bass]

not sure about different absorption rate from person to person. i know some here have injected 200 mgs SQ and had no problems, but for most of us get a lump with 60 mgs.

[Mario L]

200 mg. Wow! Based on the size of my lumps at 60 mg, 40 would probably still be a problem.

[JD250]

I was shooting 200mgs a week sub Q in one injection, I'm using 200mg/ml test so that equals a 1 ml injection, I injected very slowly maybe a full minute to 1 1/2 minutes to run the plunger down, then massage for a little while. At present I'm running a little deca so I mix my test and deca and inject IM for now however when I'm done with Deca I will try the EOD subQ routine and see how it works.

What are these lumps that last for weeks that people are getting? That can't be the oil still from the injection can it? Wouldn't everything be dissolved by then?

[Mario L]

I don't think its the oil because the lumps are bigger than the total injection size. Im guessing irritation or inflammation.

[bass]

I was shooting 200mgs a week sub Q in one injection, I'm using 200mg/ml test so that equals a 1 ml injection, I injected very slowly maybe a full minute to 1 1/2 minutes to run the plunger down, then massage for a little while. At present I'm running a little deca so I mix my test and deca and inject IM for now however when I'm done with Deca I will try the EOD subQ routine and see how it works.

What are these lumps that last for weeks that people are getting? That can't be the oil still from the injection can it? Wouldn't everything be dissolved by then?

i think its more of an infection or simply sensitive to disturbance. at first my lumps lasted about a week @ 60mgs but only a day or so after few times. now that i am on 40mgs, no lumps!

[Herman Munster]

Bumping This

I am waiting on my HCG order; I have the BW and a crap load of 30ga 5/16" syringes/needles. I thought why not try injecting test via the SubQ method. I have split my dosages to .3ml twice a week alternating between IM and SubQ. I shot my first SubQ yesterday and had no issues. No pain, no marks, no bumps etc... My next blood work is 4 weeks out so I thought this would be a good time to give it a try. I am very hopeful this works out; the SubQ method was fast and painless.

My only question is: Can you deliver SubQ to any body part or abdomen only?

Thanks

[ecdysone]

i think its more of an infection or simply sensitive to disturbance. at first my lumps lasted about a week @ 60mgs but only a day or so after few times. now that i am on 40mgs, no lumps!

I've had mixed luck and can't seem to narrow down the problem either.

For certain it's an inflammatory reaction rather than a persistent oil depot. I've noticed the lumps more often when a small amount of blood appears at the injection site. And, it does seem volume dependent.

I'm beginning to think it's more "mechanical" issue than anything else... as in minor tissue damage leading to an inflammatory response.

For the next month I'm going to try warming the oil (I use a hair dyer on the loaded syringe) and much slower injections, taking at least a min.

Also I like JD's idea of using at least a 1/2" needle and attempting to inject as deeply as possible.

One guy I know says he does the "fingers off" approach during injections... he uses one hand and pushes the syringe against his skin as hard as necessary to maintain contact - he feels he's getting a mix IM/SQ injection that way - so yet another approach.

[bass]

Bumping This

I am waiting on my HCG order; I have the BW and a crap load of 30ga 5/16" syringes/needles. I thought why not try injecting test via the SubQ method. I have split my dosages to .3ml twice a week alternating between IM and SubQ. I shot my first SubQ yesterday and had no issues. No pain, no marks, no bumps etc... My next blood work is 4 weeks out so I thought this would be a good time to give it a try. I am very hopeful this works out; the SubQ method was fast and painless.

My only question is: Can you deliver SubQ to any body part or abdomen only?

Thanks

check out GD's post!

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...55#post5787455

[SEOINAGE]

did sq the first time the other day. Its still red around it and feels hard like a flat lump, bigger than a quarter but hasn't bothered me much. Seems like an inflammatory response to me. I shower at work but i dont want to make up stories that I am diabetic so I might go back to im or rotate for a bit and see if my body gets used to it.