New TRT program would like advice and thoughts

[jackkerouc]

Hello,

I am a 39 year old male and my stats on 9/26/12 as measured by my doctor:
Hgt: 5' 7.5"
Weight: 154 Lbs
Body Fat: 14.4%
Total Body water: 66.3%
Muscle Mass: 19.3%

I have been experiencing fatigue, loss of focus and concentration at work, lower libido, irritability, and loss of strength.
I have lost 20 lbs over the past two years. I have eliminated fries and usually take off the top bun.
I have been lifting weights (bench, shoulder press, and bicep curls) at home. Moderate weight for reps of 10.
My goal is to look and fell good.

I went to a doctor and asked about low T.
First step was blood work:

My labs as of 9/26/12 were:
DHEAS 247.7 ug/ml
WBC 5.6 (ref range 4.1-10.9) K/ul
RBC 5.68 (ref range 4.7-6.10) M/ul
The rest of the CBC w Differential were "normal"
GLU 81 (ref range 70-115) mg/dl
TSH 1.74 (0.27-4.20) ulU/mL
Cortisol 12.0 (before 10AM ref range 3.7-19.4) ug/dL
CRPRO HS 0.04 (ref range <0.50) mg/dl
ESTRAD 15.0 (7.6-42.6) pg/mL
FT3 2.8 (ref range 2.0-4.4)
FT4 1.48 (ref range 0.93-1.70)
Free Testosterone 11.00 (5.00-21.00) ng/dl
SHBG 43.45 (ref range 10.00-80.00) nmol/L
TEST 600.00 (ref range 280.0-800.00) ng/dL
IGF-1 LC 170 (ref range 69-226) ng/mL
LH 3.9 (ref range 1.7-8.6) mIU/ml
CHOL 218 (ref range 120-200) mg/dL
TRIG 125 (ref range 30-149) mg/dL
HDL 57 (ref range 35-85) mg/dL
25 Hydroxy-Vitamin D 28.80 (insufficiency range 10-30 ng/mL) ng/mL
SHBG pending

After reviewing my blood work the Dr said I was twiner for TRT. It was up to me if I wanted to be on TRT or try through improved diet.
I chose TRT because I do not want t be average. I expect and want to be in the 90+ percentile.

Here is the program I have been on for three weeks:
.5 cc IM of TEST CYP 200 MG/CC per week
Vitamin D and a multi vitamin
Chantix (I have been a smoker for 20 years)

While reviewing my bloodwork with the Doc. all I caught were the following:
Deficient in Vitmanin D
I do not consume enough green veggies and protein
I need to reduce caffeine
Increase protein

I agree with all the conclusion but I don't understand why.
If someone could help me interpret my blood for and stats and tell me how the Doc cam to this conclusion.

I have a follow up with the Doc with updated blood work. I like to set both short term and long term goals.
My goal for my follow up visit are:
Increase weight to 165 lbs and decrease BF to 13%. I was 165 lbs in my twenties which was when I was in the best shape.

Also, any other suggestions or thoughts are welcome. Especially on diet. My diet is horrible.

[HRTstudent]

I am not clear here... is that blood work before or after you started taking exogenous testosterone?

[jackkerouc]

The blood work was before TRT.. sorry for the confusion

[kelkel]

Seriously, to me it does not look like you needed TRT. First and foremost I would have suggested lifestyle changes. Better nutrition, more and focused exercise routine. Proper supplementation. Just adding vit D to your diet will improve your free T by decreasing your shbg. How much D did your doc put you on, btw. I would suggest you visit the nutrition forum here and read all the stickies. Then post your daily diet there in detail. You will basically have free nutritionists giving you advice! There is also a workout forum to help you with that aspect as well.

Since you're on TRT make sure you get the proper BW pulled. See the Finding a TRT Doc sticky and review the lists there. After you get the BW post it here (meaning get a copy before you see doc) and let us review it. Adjustments will probably have to be made as well as the addition of HCG and possibly an AI, dependant on results.

Welcome jack! Stick around and become a part of this forum. Great people full of diverse knowledge!

kel

[steroid.com 1]

Sorry man, but these panels for a guy your age look pretty damn Skippy to me!

My labs as of 9/26/12 were:

Thyroid:
TSH 1.74 (0.27-4.20) ulU/mL
FT3 2.8 (ref range 2.0-4.4)
FT4 1.48 (ref range 0.93-1.70)
Your thyroid is functioning properly. Remember, FT4 and FT3 are the bio-available forms of Thyroxine (where the rubber meets the road if you will) and both are solid. Yea, FT4 is a tad low but your converting to FT3 nicely so your Thyroid is not a source for your symptoms.

DHEAS 247.7 ug/ml
This is best at the top of the reference range; add in 50mg of DHEA micronized each morning...it will help you.

Cortisol 12.0 (before 10AM ref range 3.7-19.4) ug/dL
Normal considering you were in a Docs office which can in and of itself bring on stress...trust me I know

ESTRAD 15.0 (7.6-42.6) pg/mL
Probably Estradiol (E2) and not sure if it's a sensitive assy but nonetheless it's fine...which is a good thing!


TEST 600.00 (ref range 280.0-800.00) ng/d
Free Testosterone 11.00 (5.00-21.00) ng/dl
These assays are excellent for a man your age and you are not a candidate for Testosterone Replacement. At the 200 mg of Testosterone a week you are going to go supra-physiologic in a very short period of time and throw off a whole bunch of other hormonal pathways in return.


SHBG 43.45 (ref range 10.00-80.00) nmol/L
Excellent.

LH 3.9 (ref range 1.7-8.6) mIU/ml
About right for a guy your age and nothing wrong with it.

Is your Physician trained in Testosterone Replacement Therapies for men? Your Testosterone levels are going to go sky high and if you think what you were feeling before you started was bad wait till you see what can happen at these elevated levels.

There are many many things that could be causing your symptoms but I for one can say it's not due to androgen deficiency syndrome.

[jackkerouc]

Seriously, to me it does not look like you needed TRT. First and foremost I would have suggested lifestyle changes. Better nutrition, more and focused exercise routine. Proper supplementation. Just adding vit D to your diet will improve your free T by decreasing your shbg. How much D did your doc put you on, btw. I would suggest you visit the nutrition forum here and read all the stickies. Then post your daily diet there in detail. You will basically have free nutritionists giving you advice! There is also a workout forum to help you with that aspect as well.

Since you're on TRT make sure you get the proper BW pulled. See the Finding a TRT Doc sticky and review the lists there. After you get the BW post it here (meaning get a copy before you see doc) and let us review it. Adjustments will probably have to be made as well as the addition of HCG and possibly an AI, dependant on results.

Welcome jack! Stick around and become a part of this forum. Great people full of diverse knowledge!

kel

Thank you for the response and welcome!

I am currently taking 1,000 iu of Vitamin D3 daily along with using skim milk in protein shakes.

The doc did say something about SHBG and Free T how the protein was not binding and this could be corrected through diet and increase my T.

My thinking was why not do both? Since starting TRT I have been reading as much as I can about the side effects and benefits. I am excited to have more energy, focus, drive, libido, muscle, and look younger.

My next BW is in 8 weeks. Will post results.

I will be taking advantage of the diverse knowledge available on the forum.

[jackkerouc]

Sorry man, but these panels for a guy your age look pretty damn Skippy to me!

Thank you for taking the time to read and reply to my post.

The Doc said I was a tweener and we could possibly correct the issue through nutrition but I pushed him for the TRT even though he warned me that it would be a program for life.

I don't want to look and/ or feel like a man my age. My goal is aging gracefully. I want to feel and look like I was 10 years ago and slow down the aging process.

[steroid.com 1]

Thank you for taking the time to read and reply to my post.

The Doc said I was a tweener and we could possibly correct the issue through nutrition but I pushed him for the TRT even though he warned me that it would be a program for life.

I don't want to look and/ or feel like a man my age. My goal is aging gracefully. I want to feel and look like I was 10 years ago and slow down the aging process.

Jack, I am sure you're a good dude but you're going about this all wrong in my personal opinion.

I get the anti aging angle; I am probably the biggest advocate for it than anyone around here!

But your blood doesn't lie and you don't need androgen replacement therapy right now based on your initial blood work...especially at 200 mg a week!!!

A guy your age with with Total at 600 and a solid Free and SHBG and E2....there was nothing that warranted injecting more Testosterone into your body unless you want to use it similar to aas...than that's a different discussion all together.

You would have done much better trying the nutrition route first and foremost...in other words exhaust all other alternatives first and then TRT as a last resort...but there's nothing to resort to becasue there was nothing wrong with you.

One final word of caution; the dosage you are taking is at the very high end for men who are seriously androgen deficient not someone who had normal serum levels.

Ask your Doc to cut your dosage to something like 60 to 80 mg per week and take it from there. At these levels you are essentially abusing anabolic steriods and you need to understand the consequences of that and make an informed decision...at the end of the day it's your health my friend and I would only want to see what's best for you.

gd

[jackkerouc]

But your blood doesn't lie and you don't need androgen replacement therapy right now based on your initial blood work...especially at 200 mg a week!!!
gd

The doc has me on 100 mg/ week. I inject .5 cc of 200 mg/ CC TEST C.
I did not comprehend my lab results until I started reading the forum. I have gained an "improved" understanding of my lab results but need to learn more.

If had completely comprehended what the 600 T signified I may not have pushed for the TRT.
However, I will continue TRT regiment until the next BW in 6 weeks as well as improving nutrition and exercise.

I appreciate the concern and feedback (what I was looking for).

[Vettester]

I'm having to post on the fly here ... I don't get it! We have guys come on here with 300ng levels, yet their doctors say they're "normal" and won't prescribe anything. In this case, op is at 600ng, and the doctor signs off on it.

Everything GD just stated is spot on!! (Like normal).

[bass]

i can't add anything to whats been said already.

OP, i can only give you advice and its up to you to take it or not. if i had these levels i would have never started TRT, TRT is for life and no one really knows whats down the road 40 years from now being on TRT. there is still time for you to get off TRT and do PCT to kick start your own natural production, as you may know once on TRT for 3 months or so most likely there is no turning back, your natural production will shut down. many of us on TRT have the range of 600 and are very happy with it, i can't see why anyone would want more unless they are looking for short cuts (not suggesting you are) TRT is not about shortcuts, its for optimal health. i guarantee you can increase your total up to 700+ with proper diet, supplementation and training. at your age you're probably looking to live another 50 years, 50 years on testosterone injection, who knows whats ahead!!! anyway, there is still time for you to stop and re-evaluate. good luck.

[steroid.com 1]

Sorry Jack, somehow I got a 200 mg per week in my head; but the 100 mg is a helluva a lot better then 200 mg

I still think you'd be better at 60 to 80 mg...but that's just me.

Run with it and let's see how BW looks in the coming weeks.

Now, are you taking any HCG to preserve HPTA and keeping your Testicles functioning? If not, and if you don't understand, please read the sticky at the top of the forum on why you need HCG.

You probably don't need an Aromatase Inhibitor right now but understand and learn some of the symptoms of elevated Estradiol (read that sticky as well). For many men, increases in serum testosterone levels will increase Estradiol and that is something you don't want if it goes too high.

You can get a sense now that just putting in more Testosterone is not a simple as it sounds.

Throw off one pathway and it effects many others...complex and needs to be done correctly.

Keep us posted Jack, we're here to help!!!

gd

[steroid.com 1]

The doc has me on 100 mg/ week. I inject .5 cc of 200 mg/ CC TEST C.
I did not comprehend my lab results until I started reading the forum. I have gained an "improved" understanding of my lab results but need to learn more.

If had completely comprehended what the 600 T signified I may not have pushed for the TRT.
However, I will continue TRT regiment until the next BW in 6 weeks as well as improving nutrition and exercise.

I appreciate the concern and feedback (what I was looking for).

I am going to expand on bass' comment regarding HPTA shutdown.

If you are not taking HCG now to keep HPTA intact it will get more difficult re-start natural produciton as time goes by.

That means you become dependent upon TRT for the rest of your life not that dissimilar to a diabetic and dependency on insulin...that's the commitment that you now will have to live with.

There is no "let me try testosterone injections for a year and see how it works"...as noted it's for life.

Please read the stickies at the top of the forum and learn.

Also, go to Amazon and look for a book by Nelson Vergel called "Testosterone - A Man's Guide" it will serve you well in your learning process.

[jackkerouc]

Now, are you taking any HCG to preserve HPTA and keeping your Testicles functioning? If not, and if you don't understand, please read the sticky at the top of the forum on why you need HCG.

You probably don't need an Aromatase Inhibitor right now but understand and learn some of the symptoms of elevated Estradiol (read that sticky as well). For many men, increases in serum testosterone levels will increase Estradiol and that is something you don't want if it goes too high.

You can get a sense now that just putting in more Testosterone is not a simple as it sounds.

Throw off one pathway and it effects many others...complex and needs to be done correctly.

Keep us posted Jack, we're here to help!!!

gd

No HCG or AI currently. I have been very diligent on checking for tenderness in the breast, checking my te$ticles for shrinkage, and wash my back with Nixoral.

The doc said yes while on TRT I may become infertile but if I wanted to have additional children (currently dating a younger girl who has never had children) all I had to do was get of TRT for a few months while the body adjusted (started producing T again). Is this true?

[steroid.com 1]

I'm having to post on the fly here ... I don't get it! We have guys come on here with 300ng levels, yet their doctors say they're "normal" and won't prescribe anything. In this case, op is at 600ng, and the doctor signs off on it.

Everything GD just stated is spot on!! (Like normal).

LOL Vette, it's feast or famine!

[steroid.com 1]

No HCG or AI currently. I have been very diligent on checking for tenderness in the breast, checking my te$ticles for shrinkage, and wash my back with Nixoral.

The doc said yes while on TRT I may become infertile but if I wanted to have additional children (currently dating a younger girl who has never had children) all I had to do was get of TRT for a few months while the body adjusted (started producing T again). Is this true?

No, it's not true.

You are now most likely HPTA suppressed meaning that your normal hormonal processes for keeping the testicles functioning normally are now shutdown.

It almost never starts back up on its own and the longer you are shutdown the more difficult, it not impossible, to restart HPTA.

There are some drugs you can take to restart HPTA and they are successful early on but as noted as time goes by and given your age it's becomes significantly more difficult.

It's another reason why you need to take HCG as it keep the testes functioning properly when you are HPTA suppressed.

Please read the stickies Jack!!!

[jackkerouc]

Agree

[HRTstudent]

I asked that simple question for good reason because if you said yes, the answer is basically what everyone above is saying...

Be careful what you read about TRT because of course it sounds great. You can research vitamin C and think it's the miracle drug you need, or even someting obscure like biotin... if your mind wants to believe something it generally does a pretty good job convincing you of it. And the internet will surely help.

Taking TRT is not without drawbacks.

I doubt anyone on this site would CHOOSE to go on TRT if they could instead have the levels naturally or even slightly less. Best case scenario you are looking at a mild bump to testosterone but inviting 100% of the potential side effects. It does not weigh favorably in my opinion.

There are other things you can do to boost your health and hormone status of course.

[jackkerouc]

Hello,

I am a 39 year old male and my stats on 9/26/12 as measured by my doctor:
Hgt: 5' 7.5"
Weight: 154 Lbs
Body Fat: 14.4%
Total Body water: 66.3%
Muscle Mass: 19.3%

I have been experiencing fatigue, loss of focus and concentration at work, lower libido, irritability, and loss of strength.
I have lost 20 lbs over the past two years. I have eliminated fries and usually take off the top bun.
I have been lifting weights (bench, shoulder press, and bicep curls) at home. Moderate weight for reps of 10.
My goal is to look and fell good.

I went to a doctor and asked about low T.
First step was blood work:

My labs as of 9/26/12 were:
DHEAS 247.7 ug/ml
WBC 5.6 (ref range 4.1-10.9) K/ul
RBC 5.68 (ref range 4.7-6.10) M/ul
The rest of the CBC w Differential were "normal"
GLU 81 (ref range 70-115) mg/dl
TSH 1.74 (0.27-4.20) ulU/mL
Cortisol 12.0 (before 10AM ref range 3.7-19.4) ug/dL
CRPRO HS 0.04 (ref range <0.50) mg/dl
ESTRAD 15.0 (7.6-42.6) pg/mL
FT3 2.8 (ref range 2.0-4.4)
FT4 1.48 (ref range 0.93-1.70)
Free Testosterone 11.00 (5.00-21.00) ng/dl
SHBG 43.45 (ref range 10.00-80.00) nmol/L
TEST 600.00 (ref range 280.0-800.00) ng/dL
IGF-1 LC 170 (ref range 69-226) ng/mL
LH 3.9 (ref range 1.7-8.6) mIU/ml
CHOL 218 (ref range 120-200) mg/dL
TRIG 125 (ref range 30-149) mg/dL
HDL 57 (ref range 35-85) mg/dL
25 Hydroxy-Vitamin D 28.80 (insufficiency range 10-30 ng/mL) ng/mL
SHBG pending

After reviewing my blood work the Dr said I was twiner for TRT. It was up to me if I wanted to be on TRT or try through improved diet.
I chose TRT because I do not want t be average. I expect and want to be in the 90+ percentile.

Here is the program I have been on for three weeks:
.5 cc IM of TEST CYP 200 MG/CC per week
Vitamin D and a multi vitamin
Chantix (I have been a smoker for 20 years)

While reviewing my bloodwork with the Doc. all I caught were the following:
Deficient in Vitmanin D
I do not consume enough green veggies and protein
I need to reduce caffeine
Increase protein

I agree with all the conclusion but I don't understand why.
If someone could help me interpret my blood for and stats and tell me how the Doc cam to this conclusion.

I have a follow up with the Doc with updated blood work. I like to set both short term and long term goals.
My goal for my follow up visit are:
Increase weight to 165 lbs and decrease BF to 13%. I was 165 lbs in my twenties which was when I was in the best shape.

Also, any other suggestions or thoughts are welcome. Especially on diet. My diet is horrible.

Have added 500iu of HCG/ week to my TRT protocol.
I feel great. Energy, libido, focus, motivation, and drive are all up.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I know others here have already stated this but...

I would not have started TRT if I were you.
You're looking at taking testosterone injections and hcg for the rest of your life to increase your test levels a little bit. If you want to go much higher in your test than you're probably going to also need an ai.

You complain than you weren't feeling good. Well smoking cigarettes will wear your body down. If you have already quit and are still taking Chantix, the Chantix has many adverse side effects. It will take almost a year for you to feel better from quitting the cigarettes. (I also smoked. I smoked for 20 years and I also used Chantix to quit. It took quite some time before I was fully rid of the cigarette demon.)

I would seriously debate getting a 2nd opinion from another doctor.

[zdudezdud]

my thoughs
I’m 40 and my natty test level was 267 before I started TRT although I feel much better I still think this is a total pain in the ass. I would give almost anything to have had blood work like yours I would not have started TRT by any means. I would have started doing many other things before starting TRT. How about heavy squats heavy basic movements in the gym will raise test levels good strict diet

[jackkerouc]

I know others here have already stated this but...

I would not have started TRT if I were you.
You're looking at taking testosterone injections and hcg for the rest of your life to increase your test levels a little bit. If you want to go much higher in your test than you're probably going to also need an ai.

You complain than you weren't feeling good. Well smoking cigarettes will wear your body down. If you have already quit and are still taking Chantix, the Chantix has many adverse side effects. It will take almost a year for you to feel better from quitting the cigarettes. (I also smoked. I smoked for 20 years and I also used Chantix to quit. It took quite some time before I was fully rid of the cigarette demon.)

I would seriously debate getting a 2nd opinion from another doctor.

As already stated this was my decision not the Doctors so a second opinion is moot exercise.

Everyone's body chemistry is different. It is NOT a one size/ protocol fit all. Perhaps your body is content at 500ng/dl of T while mine functions optimally at a higher level.

I do appreciate your input but I am extremely happy with the results.

[jackkerouc]

my thoughs
I’m 40 and my natty test level was 267 before I started TRT although I feel much better I still think this is a total pain in the ass. I would give almost anything to have had blood work like yours I would not have started TRT by any means. I would have started doing many other things before starting TRT. How about heavy squats heavy basic movements in the gym will raise test levels good strict diet

I have no issues. I am maintaining relatively the same lifestyle with increased energy, drive, libido, and focus.
I am enjoying life with my increased vitality.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Now a word from the rookie I took Kentucky Derby levels of everything I could get my hands on in my 20's and my mid life crissis began in my mid to late 30 or so the doctors said they gave me pills for depression and never even thought to look at Test levels ( this was a few years ago) . and now I have had more sever Trama and a lost marriage that 3 great children have had to suffer through a stupid divorce . All steeming back to improper use of androgens. I did say my issues started in my mid to late 30s and you did not mention your previous supplement use. Well if you are not getting good medicial advise you have a sad life to look forward to as a rookie on this forum I am 53 with a Lot T count of (78) yep (78) and you say you have motovating issues and mood swings + a few other personality adapting issues. If you abuse your body it will get even I am living proof and at my low level of T my doctor said :
'
I would need to see an endo that there maybe no need for HCG . After joining this forum no doctor has told me but with what he said and what I have read my body probably never will produce proper amounts of Test on its own . I just seek a remotly normal and more healthy & quality life style . Not to be the top 90% ? Top 90% of what ?

[jackkerouc]

Now a word from the rookie I took Kentucky Derby levels of everything I could get my hands on in my 20's and my mid life crissis began in my mid to late 30 or so the doctors said they gave me pills for depression and never even thought to look at Test levels ( this was a few years ago) . and now I have had more sever Trama and a lost marriage that 3 great children have had to suffer through a stupid divorce . All steeming back to improper use of androgens. I did say my issues started in my mid to late 30s and you did not mention your previous supplement use. Well if you are not getting good medicial advise you have a sad life to look forward to as a rookie on this forum I am 53 with a Lot T count of (78) yep (78) and you say you have motovating issues and mood swings + a few other personality adapting issues. If you abuse your body it will get even I am living proof and at my low level of T my doctor said :
'
I would need to see an endo that there maybe no need for HCG . After joining this forum no doctor has told me but with what he said and what I have read my body probably never will produce proper amounts of Test on its own . I just seek a remotly normal and more healthy & quality life style . Not to be the top 90% ? Top 90% of what ?

.

If I am reading your post correctly, your point is don't abuse steroids bc it will cause grave consequences, right?
I have never used anabolic steroids prior to this TRT protocol.

[TennTarheel]

Reading this post made my blood pressure shoot up bc I am trying to find a doc that understands HRT and that will help me. I am almost 350ng less than the poster yet am going crazy just trying to get proper help!

This is no offense to the OP but with those original levels, you should follow what these guys have suggested with most importantly "lifestyle changes". You definitely should not be on HRT, just my opinion. If you are just wanting a jolt, then do a cycle, not lifetime HRT. Not saying you should, but just being real.

Hell, in my avatar pic I probably had lower test levels than you do. Actually I'm sure I did. I'm thinking that kinda 90th percentilish?

[TennTarheel]

I just re-read some of this and from your responses, you are simply looking for a shortcut bc of shitty lifestyle habits. You admit your diet is terrible but you want to continue "feeling good" without having to put in some work. You really just wanted your juicing to be legalized by calling it HRT. I just call the way I see it. If you want to juice, just say it. Go to the proper forum and they will help you in the supra physiological realms. Many guys here do have the knowledge and experience to help you in that manner but that's not why they are here. They will however help you to either increase your levels naturally through PROPER diet and training, sleep, etc. or they will assist you with proper HRT protocol and management. You obviously don't want to hear the advice given though bc you simply want shortcuts. Again, just my opinion.

[jackkerouc]

I just re-read some of this and from your responses, you are simply looking for a shortcut bc of shitty lifestyle habits. You admit your diet is terrible but you want to continue "feeling good" without having to put in some work. You really just wanted your juicing to be legalized by calling it HRT. I just call the way I see it. If you want to juice, just say it. Go to the proper forum and they will help you in the supra physiological realms. Many guys here do have the knowledge and experience to help you in that manner but that's not why they are here. They will however help you to either increase your levels naturally through PROPER diet and training, sleep, etc. or they will assist you with proper HRT protocol and management. You obviously don't want to hear the advice given though bc you simply want shortcuts. Again, just my opinion.

Not my fault you can't find a doc (perhaps read the stickies).
End goal is increased vitality and quality of life.

[jackkerouc]

One of the biggest debates and common thread on this forum is when Docotrs arbitrarily decide what's low T and whats not.
The past few posters are doing same but doing it uninformed. Taking their own singular experience and extrapolating this to all.

I posted in this forum originally based on words such as "wellness, longevity, and anti-aging".

Yes, I have acknowledge there are potential side effects to HRT.

If you would like to continue to belabor the point of my initial blood work versus yours, ok.
However, HRT has more possibilities then treating low T but for anti aging, wellness, and increased vitality.
Keep an open mind and don't be so quick to judge.

[TennTarheel]

Little bitch, funny. I think I read that you were pushing 165 lbs or so in your "not so prime". I may be the only one that says it but its just retarded for you to take this route and say its not you making up for shitty fitness knowledge in general. You could easily raise it at least 100 ngs without test. But you don't want to do it, or you just don't know how. Again, I may be the one to speak the truth, but I'm sure every single person that sees your bloodwork and sees how you have a horrible diet as well as meds that do wreak havoc on your body, will be thinking the exact same thing. This guy just wants a legal cycle to get a boost in life. What will you do when that boost levels off? I'm guessing you'd probably just keep bumping the dose

[HRTstudent]

We all have the same goals here - to help ourselves and help others. That's why we post here. Name-calling really only makes people want to contribute less and always negatively impacts the help we get.

It just hurts everyone guys, so please let's avoid it best we can.

[TennTarheel]

Thanks HRT. My bad

[jackkerouc]

Update on my TRT program.

Currently taking:
.8 cc of TEST CYP 200 MG/CC per week
500 iu of HCG per week
Vitamin D , multi vitamin, and fish oil
cleaned up diet

Current stats:
Height: 5' 7"
166.6 Lbs
15.7 % body fat
39 years old

Current blood work:
DHEAS 329.7 ug/ml - previously 247
RBC 6.24 M/uL (range 4.70-6.10) - previously 5.68
HGB 18.1 g/dL (range 14.0-18.0) - previously 16.7
HCT 56.2 % (range 42.0-52.0) - previously 51.6
ESTRAD 40.0 pg/mL (range 7.6-42.6) - previously 15
Free TEST 21.20 ng/dl (range 5.00-21.00) - previously 11
SHBG 27.41 nmol/L (range 10.00-80.00) - previously 43
TEST 828.7 ng/dL (range 280.0-800.0) - previously 600
PSA 1.21 ng/ml (range 0.00-4.00) - previously 1.18

I think I am at the optimal level but the Doctor would like me to to slightly cut back on the TEST.
He suggested either .6 or .7 CC of TEST instead of .8 CC.
He also said this will also help with the elevated ESTRADIOL.

I was given a choice to either take Zinc and add DIM if needed or start taking an AI. I chose to start with Zinc and will add DIM as needed.

I will also need to donate blood once a quarter.

I have no complaints. I feel great. Energy level is up.

Still working on dialing in the diet in order to reduce the body fate to ~ 12%.

Next blood work is in 6 months.

[TennTarheel]

Bloodwork looked just as good before, without shutting yourself down. I'm still amazed at this one. There were so many things you could have done to put yourself in this same position without taking Test.

[jackkerouc]

Good luck with your own program.

[jackkerouc]

Bloodwork looked just as good before, without shutting yourself down. I'm still amazed at this one. There were so many things you could have done to put yourself in this same position without taking Test.

TennTarheel - Why are you taking Suboxone? Opioid addiction? Any other illicit items you may have taken that is causing your current "low T" situation?

[steroid.com 1]

Update on my TRT program.

Currently taking:
.8 cc of TEST CYP 200 MG/CC per week
500 iu of HCG per week
Vitamin D , multi vitamin, and fish oil
cleaned up diet

Current stats:
Height: 5' 7"
166.6 Lbs
15.7 % body fat
39 years old

Current blood work:
DHEAS 329.7 ug/ml - previously 247
Too high, can lead to increase E2 serum levels. This assay is best at or near top end but not over. Are you supplementing DHEA?

RBC 6.24 M/uL (range 4.70-6.10) - previously 5.68
HGB 18.1 g/dL (range 14.0-18.0) - previously 16.7
HCT 56.2 % (range 42.0-52.0) - previously 51.6
Give blood as soon as you can. If not you will need to discontinue your protocol as it can lead to some very life threatening conditions.

ESTRAD 40.0 pg/mL (range 7.6-42.6) - previously 15
Elevated and needs to come down. You didn't really have low androgen levels to start so the extra test and high DHEA-S is driving this.

Free TEST 21.20 ng/dl (range 5.00-21.00) - previously 11
This is better at about 75% of the reference range...you're nearing supraphysiological levels...of course depending when the blood was drawn as well.

SHBG 27.41 nmol/L (range 10.00-80.00) - previously 43
Nice!

TEST 828.7 ng/dL (range 280.0-800.0) - previously 600
Same note here as your Free Test.

PSA 1.21 ng/ml (range 0.00-4.00) - previously 1.18
Fine.

I think I am at the optimal level but the Doctor would like me to to slightly cut back on the TEST.
Agree with the Doc.

He suggested either .6 or .7 CC of TEST instead of .8 CC.
He also said this will also help with the elevated ESTRADIOL.
It will help with your E2 levels but not a lot. You need an AI for that.


I was given a choice to either take Zinc and add DIM if needed or start taking an AI. I chose to start with Zinc and will add DIM as needed.
Zinc and Dim won't effect it that much...if at all. You need the AI to get it down. BTW, once you reduce your E2 levels your Total and Free Testosterone levels will increase so you'll need to reduce your Testosterone dosage yet again to make up for the lower synthesis to E2.

I will also need to donate blood once a quarter.
Yep!

I have no complaints. I feel great. Energy level is up.
Excellent!

Still working on dialing in the diet in order to reduce the body fate to ~ 12%.

Next blood work is in 6 months.

Keep us posted.

[jackkerouc]

Too high, can lead to increase E2 serum levels. This assay is best at or near top end but not over. Are you supplementing DHEA?
No, I am not supplementing DHEA.

I think I am at the optimal level but the Doctor would like me to to slightly cut back on the TEST.
Agree with the Doc.
My goal was to be in the top 90th+ percentile of free TEST range. I may have over short that goal a bit and will now titrate down slightly.