Going off TRT - Does one need PCT?

[Renholder]

Hello friends,

What's the common protocol for individuals going off TRT and wants to attempt a restart/return to baseline levels?

I quit exogenous testosterone a little less than two months ago and have been doing daily or every other day HCG shots since.

If I want to try going off TRT, how would I do it?

Introduce clomiphene to my HCG protocol?

Taper off HCG?

Combine HCG and clomiphene for a while?

Incidentally, I'm out of HCG today, but I won't let that influence my choice of how to proceed.

Thanks.

PS: Feeling as good as I ever did on exogenous T at the moment, which is not great on average, but still OKAY. Feeling very good today though.

Thanks,

Renholder

[bass]

how long you been on TRT? yes you will need to do PCT, but its best if administered by a doctor. or you can head to the PCT section for guidance.

[Renholder]

Roughly a year.

I don't have a doctor who can help me. He would not even know what PCT is.

FWIW, I got back BW today that was taken for some other purpose. LH/FSH did not get tested, but total testosterone came back at just below 400 ng/dl.

Either: 1) My HCG has been crap and spoiled; 2) I don't respond to HCG.

I believe it must be the first, as I had great values when I first tried HCG.

[AnabolicDoc]

Your traditional options are hcg, clomid, or both. Once hormone levels normalize and spermatogenesis resumes you can try lower doses and ultimately stopping. Were you taking hcg during TRT. Why did you go on TRT? When you say hcg worked better the first time, please explain when was the first time and why. What's your reason for going off TRT (often it's for having kids) and do you plan on going back on in the near future?

Bc if you're going to go back on TRT sometime soon, you might as well just go on HCG 3x per week till then (plus low dose AI if E2 levels rise). Most docs start our with about 1500iu 3x per week, but if you weren't using hcg during TRT then you'll likely need more.

The problem doing this on your own is it initially requires somewhat frequent blood work, roughly every month or 2 for 6 months with an initial semen analysis and one later depending on if you're seeking fertility and wanting to have children.

If you answer the above questions, I can help you better but I still strongly recommend a doctor's care.

[Renholder]

Your traditional options are hcg, clomid, or both. Once hormone levels normalize and spermatogenesis resumes you can try lower doses and ultimately stopping. Were you taking hcg during TRT. Why did you go on TRT? When you say hcg worked better the first time, please explain when was the first time and why. What's your reason for going off TRT (often it's for having kids) and do you plan on going back on in the near future?

Bc if you're going to go back on TRT sometime soon, you might as well just go on HCG 3x per week till then (plus low dose AI if E2 levels rise). Most docs start our with about 1500iu 3x per week, but if you weren't using hcg during TRT then you'll likely need more.

The problem doing this on your own is it initially requires somewhat frequent blood work, roughly every month or 2 for 6 months with an initial semen analysis and one later depending on if you're seeking fertility and wanting to have children.

If you answer the above questions, I can help you better but I still strongly recommend a doctor's care.

Thank you for your thorough reply.

1. I went on TRT because after a three year period of feeling like shit and trying a lot of different things, it remained the only logical choice. Baseline levels were roughly 400 ng/dl, maybe slightly below. I'm 28 years old, btw.

2. I'm quitting TRT because I never had any subjective positive benefits or felt any better on it than I did prior to TRT, in spite of good BW. Granted, I've had good periods where life has been good, but I had that prior to TRT as well. Often, I would feel good, but with low libido though.

I want to try quitting TRT and see what happens. Without any good benefits from TRT and paying out of my pocket as well, it does not make sense to continue right now.

If things go to hell, I will get back on, but this time try gel, the only thing I did not try.

3. HCG monotherapy (500 IU 3X weekly) put me roughly at 800 ng/dl when I first tried it. But, I still did not feel good and having read about people with good BW on HCG, but no subjective benefits, I decided to go on exogenous T, mostly beause I was desperate to get well.

I think my problem may be related to my adrenals. Overall, I am feeling better than I was three-four years ago, but maybe I can function without just as well.

Thanks.

Renholder

[Renholder]

Regarding doctor's care, that would have been ideal, but I have been on "my own" when doing TRT as well. There's simply no doctors in Norway to my awareness that has any knowledge on the topic.

I planned a phone consult with Dr Crisler, but I'm so broke right now that it's tough to justify the cost. Monthly or every other month BW should not be a problem, I think.

[Renholder]

As I was out of HCG, I started with clomiphene 25 mg per day last Friday.

Feeling pretty drained now, but have slept badly tonight and had some stress with my last exam.

[AnabolicDoc]

Clomid has a long half life, about a week, so it takes a little while to accumulate stable blood levels. That's why most ppl do a 1 to 2 week loading dose for PCT.

[Renholder]

Clomid has a long half life, about a week, so it takes a little while to accumulate stable blood levels. That's why most ppl do a 1 to 2 week loading dose for PCT.

Okay.

I suppose my "needs" are lower than the average bodybuilder on cycle. Not even sure I need PCT to be honest. I know guys who done fine without, but they naturally had very high LH and mine's been on the lower end.

Any recommendations on how to proceed and for how long to use the clomiphene?

Thanks.

[AnabolicDoc]

My point was only that it takes about a week or so to reach stable blood levels. I've seen studies demonstrate an effective clomid dose in men (for treatment of low T, not infertility) at 25mg eod. Of course, this was for secondary (hypogonadotropic) hypogonadism only.

You need to get blood work after a few months and see what your LH, T, and E2 levels are and adjust accordingly. Let's assume that your current dose proves to be effective when you get blood taken next. So you then decrease to 25mg eod. If you're T levels drop significantly, it's less likely that you'll be able to have adequate levels of T if you come off completely. If you're wondering why E2 levels need to be checked, it's bc some men with elevated E2 levels and low T are treated effectively with anastrozole monotherapy or in addition to hcg or clomid.

[Renholder]

Allright, I understand.

Any thoughts on how long I really need to be doing this? You seem to be suggesting longer than I was hoping. I want to make the re-start s short as possible. I've no interest in long-term treatment on clomid.

If I need extra T, I think I'd rather go for testogel instead.

Feeling "strangely" tired the last days, but I also just finished my exams, so I may be tired because of that. Does feel kind of different than the natural tiredness though.

[Renholder]

Felt pretty good for the first 8-9 days with morning wood and good cognitive function, but then I kind of regressed for now.

I hope it passes.

1) How long until I'm stable at this dose? 25 mg per day.

2) How long do I need to stay on before I start tapering or quit? If I felt as good as the first week, I would not be in a hurry. If I continue feeling like this, I would rather get off as fast as possible, but not too soon of course.

[Renholder]

Buuuuuump!

Still not feeling very good after the 10 first days on clomiphene.

How soon can I quit? Months seem like a long time. Would 2-4 weeks be too short for a PCT? If so, would I need higher doses?

Should this post be moved to the PCT forum?

Thanks!

[Trific]

Maybe you should try 25mg eod.

Wonder why more guys don't try Nolvadex for PCT...think it has less sides, it might be that clomid is just better known.....