Raloxifene 2 month progress (bad) please read

[AlexLion]

I have been on raloxifene 120 from ar-r for 2 months taking 60mg a day. So far its been getting worse! I can swear my nipples have gotten even bigger, the montgomery glands have gotten significantly bigger (small bumps around nipple), when my nipples are hard they are pointy as **** now, and sometimes my nipple gets half hard and the other half is soft so it looks weird as ****. None of this happened before i started raloxifene.

Wtf is going on.

[AlexLion]

Its almost like its doing the opposite, its adding estrogen not preventing it.
Any solutions or ideas on whats going on?

[austinite]

Well, what's your situation? You gave no detail.

What did you cycle? What was your E2 level? How long have you had gynecomastia? How long after you noticed gynecomastia did you start treatment? Are you on cycle currently, if so... What's your body fat percentage?

[MuscleInk]

60mg per day?!? Where did you come up with that dose? I hope your supplementing with calcium and vitamin D because at 60mg you will be demineralizing bone tissue.

Are you running t3 by chance?

[austinite]

^ 60mg is a standard Evista dose. Unless I've lost my mind, there's nothing conclusive affecting bone. 60 to 80mg doses have been used in studies for 6 to 9 months with no adverse effects whatsoever.

Maybe I'm not up to date, but that's research from this year.

[MuscleInk]

^ 60mg is a standard Evista dose. Unless I've lost my mind, there's nothing conclusive affecting bone. 60 to 80mg doses have been used in studies for 6 to 9 months with no adverse effects whatsoever.

Maybe I'm not up to date, but that's research from this year.

60mg is generally a clinically prescribed dose. We use 60mg and above for in situ breast adenocarcinomas. Raloxifen also carries a higher risk for stroke or thromboembolisms in people predisposed to those conditions. Among anabolic users where blood wok and lipid profiles are less than adequate, I'd strongly recommend 30mg or at the very least, front load 60 for 5 days and then cut it back. 30mg should be effective for gyno - depending on length of pre-existing gyno-mass.

Bone demineralization is seen around three months even in sporadic use at doses of 60-100mg (with higher doses clearly more problematic). Vitamin D, K, and calcium supplements are advised when using raloxifene daily for more than 14 days. I don't recall the exact pathway but I believe it effects a number of bone morphogenetic proteins such as FGF, PGE2, M-CSF, and PDGF.

[austinite]

60mg is generally a clinically prescribed dose. We use 60mg and above for in situ breast adenocarcinomas. Raloxifen also carries a higher risk for stroke or thromboembolisms in people predisposed to those conditions. Among anabolic users where blood wok and lipid profiles are less than adequate, I'd strongly recommend 30mg or at the very least, front load 60 for 5 days and then cut it back. 30mg should be effective for gyno - depending on length of pre-existing gyno-mass.

Bone demineralization is seen around three months even in sporadic use at doses of 60-100mg (with higher doses clearly more problematic). Vitamin D, K, and calcium supplements are advised when using raloxifene daily for more than 14 days. I don't recall the exact pathway but I believe it effects a number of bone morphogenetic proteins such as FGF, PGE2, M-CSF, and PDGF.

This is all news to me. I've researched this drug heavily. I guess not enough. Let me go back and see if I can find this info. I've used 80mg for 4 months with no ill effects. I'm on 60 mg right now. Scaring the crap out of me with all this.

If anyone has any docs on this please link. Off the top of my head, 100mg was used in 2 studies involving pubertal gynecomastia with zero side effects. Several studies on women were done with the interest of identifying any bone related issues, none were observed.

I'll report back once I research some more. Thanks for the advice, MI, if this is the case, we may need to update our threads. We've been pitching 60 to 80 for well over a year now in 100's of threads and stickies.

[MuscleInk]

This is all news to me. I've researched this drug heavily. I guess not enough. Let me go back and see if I can find this info. I've used 80mg for 4 months with no ill effects. I'm on 60 mg right now. Scaring the crap out of me with all this.

If anyone has any docs on this please link. Off the top of my head, 100mg was used in 2 studies involving pubertal gynecomastia with zero side effects. Several studies on women were done with the interest of identifying any bone related issues, none were observed.

I'll report back once I research some more. Thanks for the advice, MI, if this is the case, we may need to update our threads. We've been pitching 60 to 80 for well over a year now in 100's of threads and stickies.

Yes, I've seen the recommendations on here a few times. Bear in mind that many of the bone issues arise with cancer patients who have comorbidities, however I was discussing raloxifene vs tamoxifen for gyno management with a colleague last month and she said that raloxifene is certainly superior but doses of 60mg or above are not recommended for more than 2 weeks (3 at best) because of the potential risks. Personally I haven't seen these risks develop in patients but I've only treated a handful of young men for gyno with raloxifene and it was usually a 30 day course of 30mg/day.

[misc802]

Interested in this...currently running 40mg Ralox to see what it does on some pubertal gyno that has been around for years.

Although I'm not really concerned about any glandular tissue/bumps on th exterior, so long as whats BEHIND it starts to lessen.

[Megalodon6]

Have a question about ralox. Does it have any negative effect on libido like nolvadex and clomid

[austinite]

Have a question about ralox. Does it have any negative effect on libido like nolvadex and clomid

Clomid and nolva have a negative effect? My experience is the complete opposite in the past.

[MuscleInk]

Clomid and nolva have a negative effect? My experience is the complete opposite in the past.

Nolva can cause impotence when used for extended periods (2 months or more) or when used at doses greater than 50mg per day.

I have never seen or read this effect from clomid however.

[austinite]

Never used Nolva for that long, but several years ago, libido skyrocketed from Nolva.

[MuscleInk]

Never used Nolva for that long, but several years ago, libido skyrocketed from Nolva.

It's a "common" side effect but I use that term loosely. Clinically, I have seen other effects (nausea, headaches, dizziness, fatigue, hair thinning) but not impotence despite that being listed as a risk factor for about 20-25% of users.

[Megalodon6]

Thanks for you responses guys. So no way ralox could cause this?

[austinite]

Thanks for you responses guys. So no way ralox could cause this?

lol mega. The only "No Way", is No Way for anyone to predict how you will respond.

[Megalodon6]

Nolva can cause impotence when used for extended periods (2 months or more) or when used at doses greater than 50mg per day.

I have never seen or read this effect from clomid however.

I have no studies on this or anything just read some post on other sites of guys saying nolv/clomid killed their libido

[Megalodon6]

lol mega. The only "No Way", is No Way for anyone to predict how you will respond.

True guess I'll just have to try it and see lol.

[jimmyinkedup]

MuscleInk man...i think you are going way over the top. Ralox is used for months at double 60mg with no adverse effects. Hell naproxen and advil cause a decrease in BMD. Im not gonna get way into it but your going way over the top with this one.

[austinite]

Agree with Jimmy on this one...

I can't find anything conclusive regarding bone demineralization. In fact, I can only find the opposite. There may be some concern, but I don't think that 60 to 100mg is of any concern at all. Not for the short runs that we recommend. In general, if a member does not experience improvement in 6 weeks, it is my recommendation that they seek professional guidance from a specialist. Although Raloxifene has been proven in numerous studies to be the superior compound for gynecomastia reversal, like any drug, it does not work for everyone. It should work fine for the majority, but there will always be a small percentage of folks that will not respond as needed, therefore requiring a different therapeutic approach.

I just got an Evista prescription from my doc . She approved and through our discussions, there was never a mention of bone demineralization. Her prescription was for 60mg daily for 30 days with 3 allowed refills.

I am not discounting the possibility of any adverse effects. However, I'm unable to find any conclusive evidence that the advised doses here are of any concern to ones health.

Below are a few of many findings online:


FDA Approves New Uses for Evista (Raloxifene)

In 1997, FDA approved Evista for the prevention of osteoporosis in postmenopausal women and, in 1999, for the treatment of postmenopausal women with osteoporosis.

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/2007/ucm108981.htm



Long-term effects of raloxifene on bone mineral density, bone turnover, and serum lipid levels in early postmenopausal women: three-year data from 2 double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trials.

BACKGROUND: In postmenopausal women, raloxifene hydrochloride has favorable effects on bone and lipid metabolism and does not stimulate reproductive tissues. The studies reported herein evaluated the long-term (3-year) effects of raloxifene treatment on bone mineral density (BMD), serum lipid levels, and drug tolerability in healthy postmenopausal women.

RESULTS: Lumbar spine BMD changed from baseline to 36 months as follows: placebo (mean percentage change + SE), -1. 32% +0.22%; raloxifene, 30 mg, 0.71% +0.23%; raloxifene, 60 mg, 1. 28% +0.23%; and raloxifene, 150 mg, 1.20% +0.24%. Comparable BMD changes were observed in the hip and total body. Biochemical markers of bone turnover were suppressed by raloxifene to normal premenopausal ranges through 3 years. Serum low-density lipoprotein cholesterol was reduced 7% to 12% below baseline through 3 years. Study withdrawals due to any reason (37%) and withdrawals due to adverse events (14%) were not different among groups. The only significant adverse effect of therapy was hot flashes (25% in the 60-mg raloxifene group vs 18% in the placebo group); hot flashes were typically reported as mild and were not associated with study withdrawal (1.7% for 60-mg raloxifene vs 2.4% for placebo).

CONCLUSIONS: Raloxifene preserves BMD at important skeletal sites, lowers serum low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, and has a tolerability profile comparable to placebo. These results indicate a favorable benefit-risk profile of raloxifene for long-term use in healthy postmenopausal women.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11112238



Unraveling estrogen action in osteoporosis

Alternatively, selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) can be used as ERα agonists in the bone. Raloxifene is currently approved for the prevention and treatment of osteoporosis. Tamoxifen, a SERM that is used as a treatment for ERα-positive breast cancers, is an ERα antagonist in the breast, but is an ERα agonist in the bone. The NSABP Study of Tamoxifen and Raloxifene (STAR) Trial showed no difference in the number of osteoporotic fractures in the patients treated with either tamoxifen or raloxifene however raloxifene was felt to be superior on the basis of a decreased risk of endometrial cancer compared with tamoxifen.

http://www.landesbioscience.com/jour...KrumCC7-10.pdf




Raloxifene: another selective estrogen modulator.

The role of estrogens as one of the prime stimulators of tumor cell proliferation is well recognized; efforts to interfere with the initiation and promotion of breast and other cancers by endocrine manipulation have a long and successful past. The benzothiophene derivate Raloxifene is a relatively recent newcomer into a heterogeneous family of compounds loosely called antiestrogens, which implies their ability to act as antagonists to estrogen effects via competitive binding to various steroid receptors. This is a reductionist explanation, since their action is colorful and varied; they interact with lipid transduction cascades, covalently bind to DNA and to different proteins and regulate growth factors and the expression of various genes, such as erB2, mdr1 and p53; they complex with E-cadherin/catenin and are thus able to induce apoptosis, actively or indirectly. Raloxifene not only modulates estrogen effects, but has been found to reduce bone demineralization and atherogenesis, without carcinogenic stimulation of the endometrium.

Raloxifene: another selective estrogen modul... [In Vivo. 2001 Nov-Dec] - PubMed - NCBI