Convinced Doctor to get E2 Standard & Sensitive labs

[Lockout888]

So in the ongoing battle of Labcorp's E2 tests (should we get Sensitive, or is Standard good enough) - I asked my Doctor if I could get both:

Current protocol (last 5 weeks): Test Cyp 75mg every 3.5 days SubQ, HCG 250iu 3x week SubQ, no Anastrozole.
New Labs (11/19/13) - 45 hours after injection:
Total Test = 534 (348-1197)
Estradiol = 46.2 (7.6-42.6)
Estradiol Sensitive = 39 (3-70)

Previous protocol: Test Cyp 150mg 1x week IM, HCG 250iu 3x week, Anastrozole .25mg day after T injection & .25mg 3 days after T injection.
Labs (10/18/13) 43 hours after weekly test injection:
Total Test = 729 (348-1197)
Estradiol = 16.6 (7.6-42.6)
Hematocrit = 52.4 (37.5-51.0)

Other results (11/19/13):
Hematocrit = 46.4 (37.5-51.0) - gave blood via double red-cell donation
Albumin = 4.5 (3.5-5.5)
SHBG = 13.7 (16.5-55.9)
Free T = 16.1 ng/dL = 3.01 %
Bio T = 394 ng/dL = 73.8 %
DHEA = 153 (31-701)
DHT = 33 (30-85)
PSA = 1.0 (0.0-4.0)
IGF-1 = 118 (69-226)
Vitamin D = 46.8 (30-100)
IGF-BP3 = 3.8 (3.4-6.7)
Thyroxine (T4) = 6.4 (4.5-12.0)
Thyroxine, free (T4) = 1.12 (0.82-1.77)
Triiodothyronine (T3) = 113 (71-180)
Triiodothyronine, Free (T3) = 3.4 (2.0-4.4)
Ferritin = 44 (30-400)
TSH = 2.850 (0.450-4.500)

[kelkel]

Look forward to your results with this. Good thing to do!

[Lockout888]

Estradiol = 46.2 (7.6-42.6)
Estradiol Sensitive = 39 (3-70)

Most comparisons I have seen from people who had had both, show that E2 is around 10 pg/mL lower in the Sensitive Test.

But, they typed a note in my report that says:
"Estradiol results obtained with different assay methods cannot be used interchangeably in serial testing. It is recommended that only one assay method be used consistently to monitor serial patient results."

[kelkel]

And that caveat makes sense. Just like to most of us it makes sense to use the sensitive assay and stick with it, as long as insurance is covering the cost.

[Lockout888]

New Labs (11/19/13) - 45 hours after injection:
Total Test = 534 (348-1197)
Estradiol = 46.2 (7.6-42.6)

Previous Labs (10/18/13) 43 hours after weekly test injection:
Total Test = 729 (348-1197)
Estradiol = 16.6 (7.6-42.6)

So since I switched my protocol to SubQ every 3.5 days and stopped taking Anastrozole - my E2 has come back up and my TT has gone down. Am I aromatizing more, or not absorbing well via SubQ?

[kelkel]

Everyone is different. Some may not respond to SQ as well as others. I personally don't care for it and use IM all the time. Stick to what works. How about IM every 3.5 days. If you're lean you can get by with a small pin, depending on where you inject.

You're shbg is quite low as well. Couple different schools of thought here:

1. Twice per week smaller injections push it down less by virtue of less Test injected at a time. (test suppresses shbg)
2. Once per week injection. More volume at one time but allows shbg to stay elevated longer through the week due to one less injection.

Gotta see what works for you.

[jomamma007]

interesting. I've seen some tests where the results were nearly identical.
I've also seen test where they were separate by over 30 points.

I believe there is a reason the Female hormonal panel pulls the standard test,
and the Male hormonal Panel pulls the sensitive test. Labcorp of course.

[jomamma007]

A few things. As Kel stated SQ tends to be a hit or miss for many. Personally I wouldn't risk the chance of an injection not getting absorb. As long as their is no issue, switch back to IM.

Okay. Your DHEA-s levels are low. Have you thought about supplementing. 50mg micro DHEA and Preg... Now your estradiol is elevated so you need to address this first as DHEA can elevate estrogen.

Have you tried 50mg zinc and 300mgDIM daily +2-3mg copper to lower E?

If you end up needing an AI, might as well up your testosterone dosage as your IGF and DHT seem pretty low IMO.

Most importantly how do you FEEL?

A more thorough thyroid panel would help, Free T3, Free T4 if you're experiencing symptoms.

I'd say supplement with Vitamin D to get that sucker up but your SHBG is already low so I'm not sure. That's a better question for a more experienced forum member.

[dreadnok89]

What does dhea even do? I been taking 50 micronized and noticed nothing. I like preg tho and take 100 of that.

[Lockout888]

Okay. Your DHEA-s levels are low. Have you thought about supplementing. 50mg micro DHEA and Preg... Now your estradiol is elevated so you need to address this first as DHEA can elevate estrogen.

What are the benefits, and are they worth the cost? I can only afford so many supplements

Have you tried 50mg zinc and 300mgDIM daily +2-3mg copper to lower E?

I started taking ZMA again, but no DIM. I might start .25mg of Anastrozole again. DIM doesn't stop conversion right, only suppresses E2? I think my TT is low due to conversion.

Most importantly how do you FEEL?

When I was taking .25mg of Anastrozole 2x a week, my E2 went down to 16.6 on the Standard test (which is probably under 10 on Sensitive) and I felt like crap - tired, no libido and no morning or nocturnal wood. As soon as I stopped the Anastrozole, my E2 came back up and I felt much better. I get morning and nocturnal wood all the time now. I feel good, but I'm still chasing that "alpha" feeling I had during the first few weeks of Test Cyp.

I'd say supplement with Vitamin D to get that sucker up but your SHBG is already low so I'm not sure.

I take 10,000 iu of Vit D each day with food. It was really low a year ago.

[Lockout888]

What does dhea even do? I been taking 50 micronized and noticed nothing. I like preg tho and take 100 of that.

I've been doing some reading of posts here and articles on the Net about DHEA. I'm a little apprehensive about starting it. Some people get anxiety on it, some people feel nothing. I'm not sure if its worth it.

What differences have you felt with pregnenolone?

[Lockout888]

Look forward to your results with this. Good thing to do!

More Labs:
Current protocol (last 6 weeks): Test Cyp: 75mg every 3.5 days SubQ, HCG: 250iu 3x week SubQ, Anastrozole: .25mg 1x per week, day after T injection.
New Labs (12/31/13) - 48 hours after injection:
Total Test = 721 (348-1197)
Estradiol = 39.5 (7.6-42.6)
Estradiol Sensitive = 23 (3-70)
SHBG = 13.0 (16.5-55.9)
Free T = 22.4 ng/dL = 3.1 %
Bio T = 559 ng/dL = 77.6 %
DHEA-S = 232.9 (102.6-416.3)

[dhickey]

You could try magnesium oil to get DHEA up a bit. Seemed to work for me.

By seemed to work, I mean I have blood work that shows DHEA-S being significantly higher when using mag oil. I've never stopped using and tested again, so who knows for sure. My DHEA-S has been consistently in upper part of the range since using it.

[jomamma007]

You could try magnesium oil to get DHEA up a bit. Seemed to work for me.

By seemed to work, I mean I have blood work that shows DHEA-S being significantly higher when using mag oil. I've never stopped using and tested again, so who knows for sure. My DHEA-S has been consistently in upper part of the range since using it.

Or you could try micro dhea and preg =]

[Lockout888]

Another update for science:

Current protocol (last 6 weeks): Test Cyp: 75mg every 3.5 days SubQ, HCG : 250iu 3x week SubQ, Anastrozole: .25mg 1x per week, day after T injection. DHEA: 25mg daily.
New Labs (2/19/14) - 56 hours after injection:
Total Test = 664 (348-1197)
Estradiol = 34.0 (7.6-42.6)
Estradiol Sensitive = 19 (3-70)