First cycle Test Prop 6 weeks + Winny 4 weeks

[Olejesperoliver]

Hi,

let me start off with some basic info:

Age: 24
Heigth: 185cm
Weigth: 86kg
Bfp: 22%
Experience: 6 years of gym experience (from 16-22, have been off for 2 years)
Knowledge about gear: Read about it for years, waiting to get older.
Working out 5 days a week. Strength mon-fri on mornings and cardio ED in evenings.


In short (I will provide full cycle plan further down) I am doing a Test Prop - Winny cycle for 6 weeks.

100mg prop mon/wed/fri then going for winny already in week 2. My plan is to run it for 4 weeks, but if my body responds well to it i will keep running it for 5 weeks.

Now to be a little pre emptive. I know most of you will say that i am at a too high body fat percentage and that i should cut down before going on gear. I am not doing gear to cut. As you may have noticed i am running a fairly weak cycle. Mainly to see how my body reacts to cycling but of course to build some mass and strength (Even if just a little) as well. I know i can get very good natty gains, so no need to remind me. I am running Winstrol (real Anavar is hard to get and expensive or else i would definitely ran that due to liver etc.) to not look way bloated when i come off. I don't expect this cycle to work wonders, and i know the results measured up against the sides isn't worth it but that's a calculated risk i am willing to take.

Now over to what i want from this thread. If any kind souls would be willing to share their knowledge here should anything go wrong. I would love for this to be my go-to thread if i have any questions during my cycle. If anything goes really wrong it goes without saying going to the doctor will be my first course of action, but having this thread also gives me a sort of comfort.

A couple of things i am concerned about is the actual pinning. I know people always are nervous when pinning for the first time, and to be honest i COULD go to a pharmacy (I live in Bangkok so no problem asking the pharmacies down here) that can do it for me but i have to learn how to do it myself. I know the procedures and so forth, with safety and hygiene. Another thing i am concerned about is people mentioning having extreme pain in their quads when pinning the quads. Quads would definitely be the spot i am the most comfortable pinning for the first time. Would this affect my ability to do leg days? Lastly is the supposed joint pain of Winny. Some say they have no problems with it, others says it's unbearable. Some say adding test helps, some say it doesn't. There aren't really any black and white answers to this, and i know it's because people react differently. I am taking fish oils and i have Viartril-S (A glucosamine substance) to mitigate the pain as much as possible. I am just concerned my body will react really negatively and ultimately fucking up my whole cycle by me not being able to work out due to joint pain.

I am planning a more extensive test e cycle down the road when i have a better foundation if my body reacts well to this cycle. I am, as i said earlier, not expecting this to be a magical cure to my current physique. I know the only thing that works is having a diet on point and a killer workout regime. I have a good diet, not anything extraordinary, but my macros are fine at 40/40/20 and around 2500 cals (Yeah i know, should bump it up to at least 3000), and my program is good. I have no problems following either my diet or program. The biggest downside is my body not being in optimal shape for running a cycle, but as stated earlier, i am aware and it's a calculated risk i am willing to take.


My full cycle plan can be found in the attached .pdf file.

(I have already bought all of the stuff in the spreadsheet. If you want the brand name of the substances feel free to ask. I have included it somewhere but i might have forgotten it other places.)

[Olejesperoliver]

Ok so i pinned for the first time today. I fucked up a little as the dosage confused me. It says ml on my syringe and mg on my ampoules. It is really easy to find out the right dosage as my ampoule says 100mg so that's a fuck up on my part... I ended up pinning 50mg the first day. It's not the end of the world and i will just remember it till next time. I was a little nervous for my first pin so that might be why. It looked so much in the syringe as well so i thought this can't be right. I am using a 3ml syringe and it filled all the way up to 2ml when i drew everything in. Had to press back half of it in the ampoule. Yeah stupid, i know.

Other than that i had a little trouble actually getting the test in. I injected my right quad and the needle went in like butter, but I think my needle may be too small. I am using a 23g injection needle. I worked with it for a little bit, injected a little bit, waited, injected some more. Sometimes i even had to apply more pressure than i feel comfortable with. How hard can i squeeze the syringe?

Due to my high body fat percentage i upped my dosage of Arimidex to 0.5. I was initially just going to run 0.25 but i figured it will be better at a higher dosage. Thoughts on this?

[Olejesperoliver]

Okay second day of pinning and it went a lot smoother than last time. I wasn't particularly nervous and i got the dose right. Pinned my left quad this time. I had a little trouble working the oil in but i guess that's normal. Even if slow it was a successful injection and that's the most important. My right quad is a little bit sore but nothing worth mentioning really. I am guessing it is because of the low dose i shot first, and that my left quad will be a lot more sore tomorrow and Friday.

I have a quick qustion about my PCT. I have Clomid, Nolvadex and Arimidex on hand. More than enough of everything. I am running Arimidex at .5mg EOD to keep gyno at bay. I have read that taking Nolva and Arimidex at the same time is counter productive, so should i run Clomid and Arimidex or should i drop the Arimidex as soon as i start my PCT and run a normal Nolva+Clomid PCT? There aren't any black and white answers to this out there it seems. Any advice on this would be appreciated. If i don't get any answer i will stick to my initial plan of Clomid+Nolva.

Also, disregard the PCT dosages in the spreadsheet in my initial post. I have changed to Clomid 75/50/50/50 and Nolva 40/20/20/10.

[Mr. Small]

Okay second day of pinning and it went a lot smoother than last time. I wasn't particularly nervous and i got the dose right. Pinned my left quad this time. I had a little trouble working the oil in but i guess that's normal. Even if slow it was a successful injection and that's the most important. My right quad is a little bit sore but nothing worth mentioning really. I am guessing it is because of the low dose i shot first, and that my left quad will be a lot more sore tomorrow and Friday.

I have a quick qustion about my PCT. I have Clomid, Nolvadex and Arimidex on hand. More than enough of everything. I am running Arimidex at .5mg EOD to keep gyno at bay. I have read that taking Nolva and Arimidex at the same time is counter productive, so should i run Clomid and Arimidex or should i drop the Arimidex as soon as i start my PCT and run a normal Nolva+Clomid PCT?Stop the Arimidex when you start PCT There aren't any black and white answers to this out there it seems. Any advice on this would be appreciated. If i don't get any answer i will stick to my initial plan of Clomid+Nolva.

Also, disregard the PCT dosages in the spreadsheet in my initial post. I have changed to Clomid 75/50/50/50 and Nolva 40/20/20/10.

It is black and white......Arimidex from start of cycle until start of PCT, then Clomid and Nolvadex

[songdog]

I am just going to take a guess here but I would assume you didn't do any research prior too your cycle right? Beacuse you say you are 22%bf and most likely higher though and you know test only for 1st cycles right? and aas isn't a diet aid right? DIET is 98% of all cycles and if you are doing a cut on your 1st cycle you really messed up bro big time!

[Olejesperoliver]

I'm sorry for putting it this way but you need to read my initial post all the way through. Not once did i say i am doing this to cut. In fact i already said i am NOT doing this to cut. My diet is pretty clean and my macros are at 40/40/20 at around 2500 calories. Yeah i know that's too little and that i should bump it up to at least 3000.

I have done my fair share of research already. If you take a look at the .pdf i attached you would understand that i didn't randomly throw something together. I chose Test Prop and Winny due to short esters and should something go wrong they are both out of my system very quickly as opposed to Test E, Cypionate, Sust etc which takes weeks. I have all needed meds for basically anything that can go wrong, so i am well prepared.

[charger69]

Ok. Let me understand.... You come here saying you know what we are going to say (too much bf, too many substances), but your going to do it anyway. So you are saying do not waste your breathe my mind is made up.
What sort of help do you want? You know the risks and are willing to take them. You do not need anyone from here. I doubt that anyone will agree with what you are doing.
Also, you are at 22% bf and are not trying to cut... You are asking for trouble.

[Olejesperoliver]

How did i say "Do not waste your breath my mind is made up?". Literally the only thing i said is that i know i am at a too high body fat percentage, and i know the risks involved so there is no need to remind me of that specific aspect of it. Read my posts again if you want to see what advice i need. Mr. Small up there is really the only one who tried to be helpful so far ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I will chime in...

you just started working out after two years off. you are not ready to cycle.
you are too fat.
you want to see how your body reacts but...
1: how will you be able to tell what gains are from newbie gains versus steroid gains?
2: if you get sides, is it the winnie or test?
your cycle is too short.
test prop is not recommended for first cycles due to higher PIP.


you should have....
lifted for at least two years straight.
got your bodyfat under control.
done a basic test E or C cycle of 500mg for 12 weeks, with AI, and hCG

[Olejesperoliver]

1: Because i am on a daily caloric deficit of around 500. Any gains will be AAS gains.
2: Depends on the sides. Joint pain, liver toxicity, dried up, hair loss = winny / high blood pressure, gyno, bloated, acne = Test. May have left some out but that's the gist of it. Watching for warning signs isn't exactly rocket science.

Why is my cycle too short? Legit question. Many people swear by shorter cycles due to less sides and other benefits.

The PIP really isn't a problem for me. People say the first 2 weeks is the worst in terms of pain, but if that is true then this is nothing. I am a bit sore, nothing more. Won't hinder me.

And why do you say i should have done test E or C? Those are longer esters and will go out of my system a lot later than prop, and i would need a much more extensive PCT for it. Test is test, so if i can handle the pain and amount of injections why not do prop when it aromatizes less and has generally slightly less sides? Also legit question.
I already have an AI (Arimidex) and I am taking it at .5mg EOD. As for hCG i read everywhere it won't be needed for a 6 week cycle.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

1: Because i am on a daily caloric deficit of around 500. Any gains will be AAS gains. You will have no gains being in a deficit except water weight. And earlier you said this wasn't a cutting cycle.
2: Depends on the sides. Joint pain (low estrogen or too heavy of weights or bad form) , liver toxicity (even AI will be liver toxic), dried up (low estrogen), hair loss (test also) = winny / high blood pressure (any AAS), gyno (bunk AI, maybe your winny is dbol), bloated (bunk AI), acne (any AAS, bunk AI)= Test. May have left some out but that's the gist of it. Watching for warning signs isn't exactly rocket science. (good thing because you aren't a rocket scientist)

Why is my cycle too short? Legit question. Many people swear by shorter cycles due to less sides and other benefits. (longer cycles help to solidify gains for one thing)

The PIP really isn't a problem for me. People say the first 2 weeks is the worst in terms of pain, but if that is true then this is nothing. I am a bit sore, nothing more. Won't hinder me.

And why do you say i should have done test E or C? Those are longer esters and will go out of my system a lot later than prop, and i would need a much more extensive PCT for it. (no, same PCT) Test is test, so if i can handle the pain and amount of injections why not do prop when it aromatizes less (false) and has generally slightly less sides (false)? Also legit question.
I already have an AI (Arimidex) and I am taking it at .5mg EOD. As for hCG i read everywhere it won't be needed for a 6 week cycle. hCG would still be prudent

see above in red.

I am done with this thread.
People tried to help you but you seem to know it all already.
Just started lifting, fat, and going on steroids. SMH

[Olejesperoliver]

Thank you for your information. I haven't gotten any of those sides yet, i simply mentioned things i am looking out for. Your added information definitely helps me mitigate any sides when/if they arise. I highly doubt my AI is bunk as I bought it from a well renowned high grade pharmacy. A lot of people in Bangkok goes there for their gear.

Also Dylan Gemelli said that stuff about test prop not aromatizing as much as the other esters and generally having less sides. Now i know of course that you shouldn't always listen to all the internet "guru's" but he seems like he knows what he's talking about.

Again thanks for your information, I will definitely go buy hCG.


On a side note; I am on my third day of pinning. No signs of increased strength, volume or anything else maybe other than some firmness. It may all be in my head tho. I am not expecting any noticeable results before at least 2-3 weeks anyway. Workouts has been the same as before, so nothing to talk about on that part. I will give another update on Monday.


p.s: I said I am not relying on AAS to cut. I am 100% relying on my diet to cut. And of course hoping to build a little muscle while doing so.

[Olejesperoliver]

I am in the middle of my third week and started Winstrol this monday (I am in Bangkok so it's wednesday for me). I have some slight aches in my tendons and joints but that won't stop me.

Strength and endurance has gone up. Not drastically but i can feel the difference. From the start of this week i began seeing noticeable gains. I look slightly bigger, but nothing significant. I am still not even halfway through. It looks like my bf% has dropped slightly as well.

Also going to get my mid cycle bloods done this weekend.

[Sh0tsf1red]

LOL

Why ask for help when you know all the answers?

[fit_deskjocky]

Also going to get my mid cycle bloods done this weekend.

It appears you want to do it right, you just aren't. With the 6 week cycle, you are shutting yourself down and having to do a full PCT for minimal results. Your cycle won't kick in until wk 2 to 3, and that leaves you with 3 weeks of growth. It's not worth it for the short term gains and appears your only motivation is to test the waters of AAS and see what all the hype is all about. You're loosing BF but doubt it's the gear, probably the calorie deficit compounded with working out regularly and placebo effect of being on a cycle.

[Couchlock]

Also Dylan Gemelli said that stuff about test prop not aromatizing as much as the other esters and generally having less sides.
.

DYLAN GEMELLI!! 'Nuff said. Lol

[songdog]

Just so you know you don't add muscle on a cut you tone up and you wasted the best cycle your 1st too put on some serious size due to you not listening.

[Couchlock]

"I am not doing gear to cut. As you may have noticed i am running a fairly weak cycle. Mainly to see how my body reacts to cycling but of course to build some mass and strength (Even if just a little) as well"

Song, you gotta read.

He's bulking on a deficit, the gears going to do the work....

Idk

[PT1982]

It appears you want to do it right, you just aren't. With the 6 week cycle, you are shutting yourself down and having to do a full PCT for minimal results. Your cycle won't kick in until wk 2 to 3, and that leaves you with 3 weeks of growth. It's not worth it for the short term gains and appears your only motivation is to test the waters of AAS and see what all the hype is all about. You're loosing BF but doubt it's the gear, probably the calorie deficit compounded with working out regularly and placebo effect of being on a cycle.

I'm staying away from this dang thread, but your right. And this fella don't understand short blast cycles. I know he don't because I've read every word he's posted in this thread, lol. Short burst cycles of 6 weeks and under are usually ran at double the dose (at least) of a normal cycle. If one were to use 100mgs eod of test p, that equates to 350mgs a week. So if he wanted to do a true SBC, he would be using 700mgs weekly, minimum. He might as well flush that winstrol. First cycles are usually the best ones in my opinion, and this chap is wasting it. I could see this turning trollish very easily.

[kelkel]

Also Dylan Gemelli said that stuff about test prop not aromatizing as much as the other esters and generally having less sides. Now i know of course that you shouldn't always listen to all the internet "guru's" but he seems like he knows what he's talking about. .

And obviously Dylan practices what he preaches as he's just so massive.....

[Olejesperoliver]

Actually i have been on a caloric surplus since sunday and have gained 3kg in 5 days. I am eating around 3200 calories pr. day as it is now.

Also about Dylan Gemelli. Sure i know he's a douchebag who tries to promote his own products and that he's a scrawny guy but you still can't dispute that a lot of the things he says are true.

Anyway, I am feeling the test and winny really kicking in now and i feel great. No really bad sides has occured yet but i am always alert. Joint/tendon pain has been getting increasingly worse, but i can still endure. I will post my diet and workout below. Maybe any of you can give some advice on it?



09:30 - 50g oatmeal with milk + 40g peanut butter
10:30 - Strength workout
12:00 - Protein shake (31g protein, 170 calories) + banana
13:00 - Almonds (190 calories) + 400ml whole milk (3,5% fat)
15:00 - 1 chicken breast (185g) + 200g brown rice + 1 medium sized egg
17:00 - Almonds (190 calories) + 400ml whole milk (3,5% fat)
19:00 - 1 chicken breast (185g) + 200g brown rice + 1 medium sized egg
20:00 - Almonds (190 calories)
22:30 - Light cardio
23:00 - 2 eggs + Protein shake (31g protein, 170 calories)


I know i could drop the cardio to decrease my TDEE but i have to do it due to my blood pressure. That is really one thing i want to keep in check.

Workout goes like this:



Monday (Chest):

Bench press 5x10
Manual press 5x10
Incline press 3x10
Flyes 3x10


Tuesday (Upper back):

Pullups 5x10
Rowing with cables 5x10
Bent over row 3x10
1 arm dumbell row 3x10


Wednesday (Core):

Cable woodchoppers 5x10
Cable crunches 5x10
Leg raises 3x10
Sit-ups 3x10
45-degree back extension 5x10
Back extension machine 3x10


Thursday (Shoulders):

Millitary press 5x10
Millitary press with manuals 5x10
Plate front rise 3x10
Lateral raise 3x10


Friday (Arms):

21-Exercise with Ez bar 3x21
Standing cable curls 5x10
1 Armed standing cable curls 3x10
Biceps curls 3x10
Tricep pusdown with rope 5x10
Tricep pusdown with bar 5x10
1 Armed tricep pusdown 3x10
Ez bar tricep extension 3x10


Saturday (Legs):

Deadlifts 5x10
Squats 5x10
Bulgarian split squat 3x10
Dumbbell calf rises 5x10
Calf press 5x10

[Mooseman33]

I'm staying away from this dang thread, but your right. And this fella don't understand short blast cycles. I know he don't because I've read every word he's posted in this thread, lol. Short burst cycles of 6 weeks and under are usually ran at double the dose (at least) of a normal cycle. If one were to use 100mgs eod of test p, that equates to 350mgs a week. So if he wanted to do a true SBC, he would be using 700mgs weekly, minimum. He might as well flush that winstrol. First cycles are usually the best ones in my opinion, and this chap is wasting it. I could see this turning trollish very easily.

agree.
and short burst which I love need a serious prime before, body needs to be right. Never meant for any first cycle.