Advise on my second cyle

[RaidenL]

Long time reader here to ask his first question.
To start of

Hello everyone.

This December i am planning my second cyle. After about 4 a 5 of thinking what i want i decided to go for Test p Test e and tren a (nolva for pct)

I am looking to build up as much lean mass as possible.
Planning to do the cycle as follow

wk 1 - 4 Test p 75mg EOD
wk 4 - 12 Test E 500 MG EW
wk 6 - 12 Tren a 75mg EOD

PCT
nolva 20/20/20/20

What advise can one give my on this cycle. This is the first time i will be using tren. And i know many people will say it will be harsh. But i am open for it

[Kale]

First of all I am not so sure Tren is a good idea for a second cycle, I would save that for a while.

Now why are you starting the Test E at week 6 ? If you have been reading you would understand what esters are and how they work. This is a bad idea as well.

What did your first cycle consist of ? What are your age and stats ?

[RaidenL]

First of all I am not so sure Tren is a good idea for a second cycle, I would save that for a while.

Now why are you starting the Test E at week 6 ? If you have been reading you would understand what esters are and how they work. This is a bad idea as well.

What did your first cycle consist of ? What are your age and stats ?

I am sorry kale made a mistake
wk 6 was suppose to be wk 4
and tren was suppose to be wk 6

Wanted to use Test p as a kick starter then continue on with test e.

And yes i know it harsh. But i am open for it.
Other cycles that i had in mind where

Test e + eq
Sust + deca

But in the end i picked this cycle

[Mulciber]

start the enanthate from the beginning.. using the prop for a kick while the enanthate is reaching peak blood levels

[RaidenL]

start the enanthate from the beginning.. using the prop for a kick while the enanthate is reaching peak blood levels

so your saying do a 12 week test e cycle combined with test p for the first 4 weeks.

Other then that.. do you think its an acceptable cycle?

[LATS60]

Thats what it sounds like to me, if your thinking of running that 6wk tren at the end your gonna need a better PCT than that, in fact you need a better PCT anyway for a 12wk cycle of test.

[RaidenL]

Agreed, it's also i good idea to run the prop for a couple of wks at the end, IE stop the tren at 10wks, the enan at 12wks and run the prop upto PCT, this way your anabolic all the way up to PCT.

so u are saying do the cycle as follow

wk 1 - 4 test p 75mg EOD
wk 1 - 12 test e 500mg EW
wk 6 - 10 tren a 7mg EOD
wk 12 - 14 test p 75mg EOD
wk 14 - 18 PCT

OR!
This one is 2 week shorter

wk 1 - 2 test p 75mg EOD
wk 1 - 10 test e 500mg EW
wk 4 - 8 tren a 7mg EOD
wk 10 - 12 test p 75mg EOD
wk 12 - 16 PCT

What advise do you give on the pct then would ading hcg help out
or increased dosage of nolva like 40/40/20/20

But lets say i do the cycle like this
wk 1 front load test e 2 shots a week 500mg (1000 total)
wk 2 - 10 test e 500mg EW
wk 4 - 8 tren a 75mg EOD
wk 10 - 12 test p
wk 12 - 16 PCT

BUT!!
there's one more thing i dont yet understand. Reading true tren cycles i see its mostly used for cutting. So would it be wise for me to use it during my bulking phase.

Goal is to put as much mass as possible in a very lean as possible way (think my diet will determinate the outcomes)

[RaidenL]

edit

[Mulciber]

well, i prefer to run test a few weeks past the tren.

[Mulciber]

yeah, that pct is a bit weak..
didnt even notice that

[DS21]

It is your call, but I would run the prop thoughout cycle and about two weeks longer then tren ace.

Like stated above, if you do decided to run it with test e start test e at week 1 with prop. The point is to have prop in your system while waiting for test e to kick in.

[LATS60]

well, i prefer to run test a few weeks past the tren.

For sure, i always go at least a couple extra.

[RaidenL]

edit..something is wrong with the server time

[LATS60]

It is your call, but I would run the prop thoughout cycle and about two weeks longer then tren ace.

Like stated above, if you do decided to run it with test e start test e at week 1 with prop. The point is to have prop in your system while waiting for test e to kick in.

Agreed, it's also i good idea to run the prop for a couple of wks at the end, IE stop the tren at 10wks, the enan at 12wks and run the prop upto PCT, this way your anabolic all the way up to PCT.

[RaidenL]

so u are saying do the cycle as follow

wk 1 - 4 test p 75mg EOD
wk 1 - 12 test e 500mg EW
wk 6 - 10 tren a 7mg EOD
wk 12 - 14 test p 75mg EOD
wk 14 - 18 PCT

OR!
This one is 2 week shorter

wk 1 - 2 test p 75mg EOD
wk 1 - 10 test e 500mg EW
wk 4 - 8 tren a 7mg EOD
wk 10 - 12 test p 75mg EOD
wk 12 - 16 PCT

What advise do you give on the pct then would ading hcg help out
or increased dosage of nolva like 40/40/20/20

But lets say i do the cycle like this
wk 1 front load test e 2 shots a week 500mg (1000 total)
wk 2 - 10 test e 500mg EW
wk 4 - 8 tren a 75mg EOD
wk 10 - 12 test p
wk 12 - 16 PCT

BUT!!
there's one more thing i dont yet understand. Reading true tren cycles i see its mostly used for cutting. So would it be wise for me to use it during my bulking phase.

Goal is to put as much mass as possible in a very lean as possible way (think my diet will determinate the outcomes)

[MercyDog]

1-3 prop 75ed
1-10 ace 50ed
1-12 enth 250x2
pct week 14

But all natural is better

[RaidenL]

1-3 prop 75ed
1-10 ace 50ed
1-12 enth 250x2
pct week 14

But all natural is better

i believe you that all natural is better no doubt about that ^^
so its still starting off with the prop

question about the ace.. what i have been reading is that some do it ED and some do it EOD.. does it make a big difference since ace has a half life of 2 days (correct me if am wrong)

[DS21]

I only do it ed same with prop, but you can do it eod it might cause more sides. I don't know how true this is, again I only do ed inj. I just believe if you are going to do ed or eod you might as well use prop over enth, imo.

[RaidenL]

I only do it ed same with prop, but you can do it eod it might cause more sides. I don't know how true this is, again I only do ed inj. I just believe if you are going to do ed or eod you might as well use prop over enth, imo.

more sided by doing eod.. Why is this?
Since its for bulking and prop over test? Then the cycle would consist more of short ester. And i think short ester are something more for during the summer periods correct me again if i am wrong here.

Dont know if i mention this before only planning to do 2 cycles a year
and this one starts in December

[Big]

more sided by doing eod.. Why is this?
Since its for bulking and prop over test? Then the cycle would consist more of short ester. And i think short ester are something more for during the summer periods correct me again if i am wrong here.

Dont know if i mention this before only planning to do 2 cycles a year
and this one starts in December

prop over test? short ester for summer?

[RaidenL]

prop over test? short ester for summer?

haha sorry hope i didnt confuse you.
yea coz DS21 said use prop over test

But i always tought for quality gains its better to go for the long esters then for fast gains. Thats why i picked test e and prop as a kind of kickstarter.

Biggest reason why i wanted to use ace. Because so many people around me love it. And yes i know it will be harsh for me i am open for it and want to try it

BUT!!!
i am here to learn and open for your opinions. If say like no dude there are other cycles (and yes there are) what you can do. I am also open for them
I just dont want to do the standart

Test e / EQ
sust / deca
cycles

[MercyDog]

Raiden, the secret isn't in the combination of drugs its in the commitment to diet and training. Sure after you've fully peaked and have platued naturally steroids can take you higher but its a choice you had better think long and hard about. You can read these boards all you want but facts are facts. Go read about tren from the label, the real manufacturers will tell you about not using if you plan to breed later amoung other things.

[Mulciber]

. Go read about tren from the label, the real manufacturers will tell you about not using if you plan to breed later amoung other things.

which "real" manufacturers are we talking about here.. far as i know there is no tren made by legit steroid manufacturers producing human grade gear..
ie norma,organon,shering ect..

[RaidenL]

Raiden, the secret isn't in the combination of drugs its in the commitment to diet and training. Sure after you've fully peaked and have platued naturally steroids can take you higher but its a choice you had better think long and hard about. You can read these boards all you want but facts are facts. Go read about tren from the label, the real manufacturers will tell you about not using if you plan to breed later amoung other things.

marcydog thanx for pointing this out. I think my diet and training are top. And i have been thinking long and hard thats why i made this decision

So from everything above you would still recommend this

1-3 prop 75ed
1-10 ace 50ed
1-12 enth 250x2
pct week 14

Add hcg during the cycle?

[Mulciber]

i like to run hcg during my cycles.. my personal choice.. feel recovery is much easier when doing so..

off topic..anyone else having problems with the site using ie.. i switched back over to firefox and no problems.. should really be using mozilla anyways..usually do

[MercyDog]

which "real" manufacturers are we talking about here.. far as i know there is no tren made by legit steroid manufacturers producing human grade gear..
ie norma,organon,shering ect..

Don't buy into the human grade thing, tren is tren, human grade simply means not approved for humans which of coarse injecting pellets with glue additives and such would classify.

[Mulciber]

wtf are you talking about..actually human grade means just that,,specifically made for humans.. under stringent lab conditions.. regulated.. all that jaz..
fina/tren is for cattle.. all you will find is UG or homebrew from pellets and yet to see a label on any of these stating not using "if you plan to breed later amoung other things."

[RaidenL]

i like to run hcg during my cycles.. my personal choice.. feel recovery is much easier when doing so..

off topic..anyone else having problems with the site using ie.. i switched back over to firefox and no problems.. should really be using mozilla anyways..usually do

Yeah mulciber, I also had problems with the site.

Anyways i never really research into hcg ( i do know what it is i think)
I still want to do this cycle and add hcg to it (if you would advise it) If its not necessary then i wont.

But how would you take the hcg then if you where to do this cycle

[Mulciber]

500iu's a couple times a week through cycle.. i start from the beginning.. could start a few weeks in..
necessary..no. but for me recovery seems much easier when i use it.

[Drake Hotel]

500iu's a couple times a week through cycle.. i start from the beginning.. could start a few weeks in..
necessary..no. but for me recovery seems much easier when i use it.

What's your opinion on adding hCG two weeks at a time, then off two weeks, then on again and so forth?

[DS21]

more sided by doing eod.. Why is this?
Since its for bulking and prop over test? Then the cycle would consist more of short ester. And i think short ester are something more for during the summer periods correct me again if i am wrong here.

Dont know if i mention this before only planning to do 2 cycles a year
and this one starts in December

If you do ed inj your blood levels are more stable, which causes less sides. I believe I was saying use prop over Test E? Test E will cause a little more water bloat, but don't let that confuse you for size. It goes away really fast once you come off. You can use any Test for bulking, it is all about diet, training and rest, imo. I like prop because you get more test and less ester per mg, and most importantly it kicks in right away.

[Mulciber]

What's your opinion on adding hCG two weeks at a time, then off two weeks, then on again and so forth?

if thats enough to keep your boys full cool.. i dont like to use more than 500iu at a time.. i rather use it more times a week than go any higher per inj

[DS21]

Oh yeah, the main reason I would use prop is you are going to use tren ace, which is inj ed or eod (your choice), so you might as well just inj them together ed or eod??

[RaidenL]

Mulciber and DS21

Thank you so much for your time and information it does mean alot for me.
I am still thinking of leaving the test e out en sticking with prop. Man thats alot of needles in my body haha.

Still trying to do some research on the hcg part. Never really did research on it. Coz i wasnt expecting to do a cycle like this until end 2009. But my toughts on it changed.

How could u advise me to dose the hcg

and know prop is faster acting then enth. But will there really be much difference between the prop and the test. coz if there is i'll go with prop. Also thinking as soon as get side (or heavy sides) its faster out of my system then if i would use enth

[Mulciber]

prop is still test.. what we are talking is the ester.. propionate and enanthate..
if your worried about all the pokes go with the enanthate.. twice a week instead of ed/eod with prop. your call

[RaidenL]

I am not that worried about the pokes. Only worried if i will be able to walk normal. If i do ED injection ill rotate injection sites (logical) with my delts i have no problem. But the first time i injected into my quads i coulden walk normal for 1 week straight.

If i will be injection ace ED or EOD i might as well mix it with the prop and leave out the enth is this correct.
But a 10 week short ester cycle for bulking. If its not a problem i dont mind it. But lets say mulciber if you where in my shoes right now. What decision would you make. I know in the end i have to make my own. But i am trying to learn and look at all the options that are available for me.

[DS21]

Mulciber and DS21

Thank you so much for your time and information it does mean alot for me.
I am still thinking of leaving the test e out en sticking with prop. Man thats alot of needles in my body haha.

Still trying to do some research on the hcg part. Never really did research on it. Coz i wasnt expecting to do a cycle like this until end 2009. But my toughts on it changed.

How could u advise me to dose the hcg

and know prop is faster acting then enth. But will there really be much difference between the prop and the test. coz if there is i'll go with prop. Also thinking as soon as get side (or heavy sides) its faster out of my system then if i would use enth

Do me a favor, write your cycle out with mgs and pct. Then I could give you a little better idea of what looks right and what you might want to change. HCG, 500iu 2xwk for last two weeks of cycle and first two of pct, everyone has differnt ways of using it, that is just the way I use it.

[Mulciber]

well, second cycle and all.. id probably go with the enanthate.. run the prop for the first 4 and drop the tren..

next cycle id go with tren and prop..

[DS21]

well, second cycle and all.. id probably go with the enanthate.. run the prop for the first 4 and drop the tren..

next cycle id go with tren and prop..

I agree 100%.

[RaidenL]

well, second cycle and all.. id probably go with the enanthate.. run the prop for the first 4 and drop the tren..

next cycle id go with tren and prop..

So its a test only cycle and using the prop to get my blood at piek levels?

technicality this is going to be my 3th cycle but i dont count my very first cycle as a real cycle

What i dit.
During my first cutting phase i did a 11 week Equipoise cycle 625mg EW
week 9 - 13 where winny injects
and 4 weeks after nolva for pct

Then the my "second" cycle was a test e only cycle for 12 weeks.

Now my 3th (but in my eyes my second) i wanted to add tren. But u still advise a test only cycle agian