first cycle recommendations? (pics+stats)

[BARA]

Hi,
im new to these forums and i've been thinking about putting on some muscle for a while now.

here are some pics of me (not tensing). its very obvious that im not on anything and i need to be on something! the reason im posting pics is so that you (whoevers kind enough to help!) have an idea of my body type and where i need the gains the most.


stats

age: 22 (23 next april)
height: ~170cm
weight: ~70 kgs

i've been working out on and off for 1.5 years now. when i first started working out i was about 65 kgs, the 5 kgs i gained (within the first 10 months) was mostly muscle.


i've spoken to alot of people at the gym about roids and most suggest deca 50 + sus. This is what im thinking of going on in the next few weeks.

would this be a good first cycle? i would like noticeable gains, i dont want to be huge, just something to be proud of when i look in the mirror and show the ladies! i want to look natural with a bit of mass. basically i want to bulk up and be toned. MASS WITH DEFINITION! i wouldnt know exactly how many kilos of muscle i would like to gain, but i'd say i wanna be 75-80kgs with a nice toned body.

as you can see i already have a bit of a gut that i would like to get rid of, can this be done while im on the cycle?


Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated.


ps im a bit paranoid about the side affects so any suggestions to prevent them would be great!


cheers

[O.T]

test/deca is a good start
have your pct plan setup, u should get some good gains...

want to get rid of the gut? dont drink beer, and diet properly work those abs...in your cutter it should be gone

[dive_kid]

I would not recomend trying to cut and bulk at the same time. if it were me I would do a couple of months hard cardio and cut the bf% doun a bit. then for a first cycle I would do a test only. so ya can see how you react.
I would use test cyp or eth so you only need to inject 2x per week

[ll==[\\\\\]>--------]

As a newbie, stay away with sustenon. You would have to inject EOD (every other day) in order to to benefit from it. Start off with some Test Enanthate and Boldonone Undecylenate (Equipoise), jump start with some methandrostenolone (Dianabol). 500mg of Test with at least 200mg of EQ a weeks for 10 weeks and take 30mg of the Dbol every day for the first four weeks. Do a lot of research my friend...the search button is very helpfull. Its all about nutrition boy...

[BARA]

this will probably sound stupid but, what exactly is a pct? and test?

i dont drink beer at all, just the occasional getting thrashed by drinking voda/scotch (although i have cut down on this) and cutting down on smoking too. as for the diet, i try to eat as healthy as possible, some weeks healthier than others.

[Peanut Butter]

this will probably sound stupid but, what exactly is a pct? and test?

i dont drink beer at all, just the occasional getting thrashed by drinking voda/scotch (although i have cut down on this) and cutting down on smoking too. as for the diet, i try to eat as healthy as possible, some weeks healthier than others.

Surf the board and you will find a lot of good information.

[MMC78]

Seems like everyone takes the easy road these days....

Consider staying natural until you master your training and diet. You are no where near your natural limit.

P.S. It's a good idea to avoid using the T word (toned) here.

[dive_kid]

pct= post cycle theropy. it is a must. test= testosterone keep asking questions and reachearing

[)(PimP JuicE)(]

and keep hitting the weights and the food.

As some bald guy on this site says "you have to build the house before you paint it."

I had to put that in there...

[BARA]

Seems like everyone takes the easy road these days....

Consider staying natural until you master your training and diet. You are no where near your natural limit.

P.S. It's a good idea to avoid using the T word (toned) here.

how can you tell if i've reached my natural limit or not? (not being a dickhead, just curious). i'll be honest with you i dont want to spend 6 days a week for 2-3 years to achieve something i wouldnt be able to achieve with roids within 4 or so months. i just want a head start and to maintain it.

as for mastering my training, i think im doing pretty well, i have very good form and i know what excercises to do etc. and im not too far behind in lifting compared to some of the people at my gym who are on roids (up to about 80-85 kgs).

[ll==[\\\\\]>--------]

how can you tell if i've reached my natural limit or not? (not being a dickhead, just curious). i'll be honest with you i dont want to spend 6 days a week for 2-3 years to achieve something i wouldnt be able to achieve with roids within 4 or so months. i just want a head start and to maintain it.

as for mastering my training, i think im doing pretty well, i have very good form and i know what excercises to do etc. and im not too far behind in lifting compared to some of the people of similar size at the gym.

OMG...OK, what are your lifts? What does your diet look like?

i dont want to spend 6 days a week for 2-3 years to achieve something i wouldnt be able to achieve with roids within 4 or so months.

not good bro...

[BARA]

pct= post cycle theropy. it is a must. test= testosterone keep asking questions and reachearing

thanks champ

[BARA]

ll==[\\\\\]>--------:

what i lift is nothing to be proud of and its probably very embarrassing compared to what you big boys lift, but i think for someone of my size and being natural im doing ok! but anyway i can lift 32.5 kgs (dumbels each hand) doing chest (incline) on my last set and similar weight doing flat bench.

[BARA]

also i'd like to ad i only started using dumbels for chest workouts a few months ago (i used to use the bar).

[MMC78]

how can you tell if i've reached my natural limit or not? (not being a dickhead, just curious). i'll be honest with you i dont want to spend 6 days a week for 2-3 years to achieve something i wouldnt be able to achieve with roids within 4 or so months. i just want a head start and to maintain it.

as for mastering my training, i think im doing pretty well, i have very good form and i know what excercises to do etc. and im not too far behind in lifting compared to some of the people at my gym who are on roids (up to about 80-85 kgs).

Go to a natural bodybuilding show to get an idea of what's possible without taking steroids.

Mistake #1: you don't work your legs.
Mistake #2: roids will not give you permanent results unless you know how to diet and train properly

You sound like you're just not up for the hard work it takes to build a quality phsyique naturally. You've already made up your mind. Good luck and stay safe.

[ll==[\\\\\]>--------]

All I can say is do a lot of research...build a strong NATURAL foundation first. You will be surprised at how fast your body will grow naturally when you have your diet in check and you put daddy's vodka away. I agree with MMC78...it doesnt sound like you have the patience and desire to batle all the hard work that lays before you. Steroids is not the easy route my friend...research research research...

[seanw]

Mate your diet is the key here. Even if you are on the gear you wont get anything from it unless you eat right. And from what I can gather you aint anywhere near eating right. That means around 3000+ calories a day and at least six meals, and at least 300+grams of protein a day. Are you doing protein shakes ? How clean are your meals ? They should be high protein like chicken, fish, lean steak etc and very low fat. If you do this right and workout hard you will put on at least another 5kg's in six months no problem.

[BARA]

Mistake #1: you don't work your legs.
Mistake #2: roids will not give you permanent results unless you know how to diet and train properly

You sound like you're just not up for the hard work it takes to build a quality phsyique naturally. You've already made up your mind. Good luck and stay safe.

i do work my legs, but not enough. im very ashamed of them. and i do realise that roids will not give me permanent results. like i said before, i only want a head start and then i will work very hard to maintain it, training and diet.

im aware that diet is about half the battle, i only put myself on strict diets when i have goals to achieve (eg, when i first started working out my goal was to gain about 5 kilos of muscle in the first 8 months) and i was on a high protien low carb diet, no junk food at all, no alcohol, no smoking. i was working out 4 days a week. i must admit if i had better experience and form with my training from the start i would've gained easily more than 5 kgs in that time.


anyway i just want some gains and believe it or not iam very dedicated and committed and i will maintain what i gain without going on more cycles. i just need your help to kick start my journey.

[MMC78]

anyway i just want some gains and believe it or not iam very dedicated and committed and i will maintain what i gain without going on more cycles. i just need your help to kick start my journey.

Good. Stick around. There are lots of great people here to help you. Check out the diet forum and look for a sticky with "How to gain lean mass" in it's title. That's a good starting point for your diet.

[BARA]

thanks champion

[ImmmtheIceman]

Working out for 1.5 years is not long at all. You have alot more you could reach naturally. LIke everyone said look into the diet and workout forums for some awesome ideas. Make sure you get proper nutrition and you'll grow. IN the meantime research as much as you can so when its time for AS you'll know a great deal.

[as-addicted]

Oh BTW search before thinking about post a new thread

[GrantC5]

You can take supplements and change your diet quite a bit and get really good gains. Your still young and have not been working out very long. Doing a cycle is not going to magically make your body change especially at your level of training and diet. If you don't have a strict diet and a good workout then you might as well not even consider doing a cycle. My opinion is you should work out and eat right at least anther year or two before considering anything else.

OFF TOPIC:
as-addidicted, what is hitting that kid in the head????

[pitbull27]

As a newbie, stay away with sustenon. You would have to inject EOD (every other day) in order to to benefit from it. Start off with some Test Enanthate and Boldonone Undecylenate (Equipoise), jump start with some methandrostenolone (Dianabol). 500mg of Test with at least 200mg of EQ a weeks for 10 weeks and take 30mg of the Dbol every day for the first four weeks. Do a lot of research my friend...the search button is very helpfull. Its all about nutrition boy...

I have a BIG problem with the second line there.....
If your not recomending Sust to a noob because of the volume of injections, thats one thing, but to say it HAS to be shot every other day in order to benefit from it is just plain WRONG! Some people have great gains with it shooting 2 times per week. This may not be the popular choice, and better gains can be made at EOD bcause of consistant prop. levels, but it is still Test, and will still be very effective if not shot EOD. Heck, some even use it once a week and see decent gains from it, but I personally wouldn't use it in that manner.
Maybe that sentence above should have read that to get the *maximum* benefits from Sust, that it should be shot EOD.

[pitbull27]

OFF TOPIC:
as-addidicted, what is hitting that kid in the head????

Looks like a set of clippers claimed a lock of his hair!

[KGBnine]

you're not ready yet, but you've come to the right place to prepare yourself. Read up and learn as much as you can. Good luck.

[ll==[\\\\\]>--------]

I have a BIG problem with the second line there.....
If your not recomending Sust to a noob because of the volume of injections, thats one thing, but to say it HAS to be shot every other day in order to benefit from it is just plain WRONG! Some people have great gains with it shooting 2 times per week. This may not be the popular choice, and better gains can be made at EOD bcause of consistant prop. levels, but it is still Test, and will still be very effective if not shot EOD. Heck, some even use it once a week and see decent gains from it, but I personally wouldn't use it in that manner.
Maybe that sentence above should have read that to get the *maximum* benefits from Sust, that it should be shot EOD.

BIG problem...sorry bud...didn't mean to ruin your day. Although I do agree on the misconception I have portrayed and thank you for clearing that up...I missed that before it was sent. Hope I didn't wreck your weekend

[bigrthanu]

Well I know you dont wanna here this but you should stick with being 'natural' for a little bit longer and build more muscle mass before you start 'roids' If you really cant wait and want to have a "shortcut' then run just a basic TEST Enanthate cycle for 10 weeks at a very low dose like 500 mg or even less per week. Followed up by proper PCT which is something your gonna have to research more on, but CLomid, Tamoxifen and HCG are the things you can search for. Remeber it is just as important what you do after the cycle to keep the gains as it is what you do during your cycle to make gains. BUT you can definatly still make WAY more gains naturallly before you start dabbling with hormones

[pitbull27]

BIG problem...sorry bud...didn't mean to ruin your day. Although I do agree on the misconception I have portrayed and thank you for clearing that up...I missed that before it was sent. Hope I didn't wreck your weekend

No, It takes a little more than that to ruin my day!
I just didn't want someone whom is completely new to A.S. to get the wrong impression about the sust.
Anyway, I hope you didn't get the impression that I was trying to flame you...that wasn't it at all! If I did give you that impression, my apologies.

Oh, and the weekend is going great!

[Nickster#1]

Seems like everyone takes the easy road these days....

Consider staying natural until you master your training and diet. You are no where near your natural limit.

P.S. It's a good idea to avoid using the T word (toned) here.

Bingo....Good advice. Also haunt this board for 6 months while getting your training and diet in check and ask questions. You are not ready for the juice. I researched steroid use for months on this board and various other boards, been working out for years, but really got everything in check, diet and training, months before I started my first cycle. It really is paying off as i am responding well to it. It takes alot of discipline to keep everything in check durring a cycle and that Is why its important to know what the hell your getting into before you start. Good luck

[*Narkissos*]

http://www.geocities.com/musclez_200/

That's what you can achieve without gear...

You've no foundation...Starting gear now would be just you fooling yourself

[kelkaz]

be honest with you i dont want to spend 6 days a week for 2-3 years to achieve something i wouldnt be able to achieve with roids within 4 or so months.

bro, to be honest you`ve lost the war unless you try to change your mind completely and immediately.

you MUST train hard and eat proper. its the first and most important step. secondly you`ve gained nothing, 5 kg in 1 year and you`re into the idea of juicing... how terrible. slap your face and stop thinking about fast and easy ways of getting muscle. you need good background to build a dream body.
a good protein powder ed+ creatine for 2 months+ a good excercise plan will give you real real good results i am sure. try, and if im not correct try juicing again.

[FRANk THe TANk]

yea bro i was just sitting in the shadows unregistered for 6-8 months before i even thought about startin a cycle, Bro theres so much to learn, I would have been kicking myself if i had done the cycle i had planned earlier this year, Deca+Winny what a retard i was

[BARA]

thanks everyone for changing my mind as now im starting to realise how much trouble i would've gotten myself into if i had started a cycle this early...

Well I know you dont wanna here this but you should stick with being 'natural' for a little bit longer and build more muscle mass before you start 'roids' If you really cant wait and want to have a "shortcut' then run just a basic TEST Enanthate cycle for 10 weeks at a very low dose like 500 mg or even less per week. Followed up by proper PCT which is something your gonna have to research more on, but CLomid, Tamoxifen and HCG are the things you can search for. Remeber it is just as important what you do after the cycle to keep the gains as it is what you do during your cycle to make gains. BUT you can definatly still make WAY more gains naturallly before you start dabbling with hormones

although the idea bigrthanu suggested does sound good to me. i will be looking further into tests, PCTs, clomid, tamoxifen, HCG etc

someone suggsted i just go on sus? any ideas on deca vs sus vs combo?

once again thank you very much for your help.

[kelkaz]

your nor reading all of the post , am i right ?

[Alexander the Graet]

not to flame u bro but in those pics u dont even look atheletic and if u start using gear all u r going to do is get fat after u finiss your cycle how will u be able to maintain something that u havent even build naturally? and about your lifts or how strong u r has nothing to do with building muscle! MY dad has never lifted weight and he is 54 am 32 he is 5'5 am 5'9 he is 168 am 198 I use 100lbs dumbells for reps in any bench press angle I squat 315 for 18 reps I can do sets of 20 pull ups I am strong but in arm wresting He is still Mufasa he is srtonger than me! sure he does not look like me of lifts what I do si u see stenght has nothing to do with how u look and build your foundation! how long have u been trainnign! give it at least 2 to 3 years and if not at least lose the gut naturally and get some muscle tone by your own offorts then u can add some gear to tour training! Dont lie to yourself because we will not! we cant stop u from doing what u already heve decided to but this is the kind of responses u r going to get from most knowledable member in this forum!

[AandF6969]

Bara,

if you can't make progress from how you look, something is wrong with your diet or training, plain and simple. You don't need drugs to build muscle, just the right nutrients (at the right times) and a solid, heavy training program.

Post up your diet and workouts for critique, if you fix these you will make amazing gains.

[Monkeytown]

this will probably sound stupid but, what exactly is a pct? and test?

i dont drink beer at all, just the occasional getting thrashed by drinking voda/scotch (although i have cut down on this) and cutting down on smoking too. as for the diet, i try to eat as healthy as possible, some weeks healthier than others.

SLAP!!!!!

[markas214]

Hi,

i've been working out on and off for 1.5 years now. when i first started working out i was about 65 kgs, the 5 kgs i gained (within the first 10 months) was mostly muscle.

cheers

On and of for a year and a half isn't much training exoerience. Anything you gain will be lost a few months later. Save your money and train for 2 years straight.Then consider AAS. You don't have enough experience or a good enough foundation. Your risk for injury is high.

[D-END]

SLAP!!!!!