Calf Injuries for Masters Level Explosive Movements ...

[chijoe]

Dear Members,

I could use some help ....

I am investigating the value of 'mild' steriods in treating a chronic condition that is fairly common (but not well talked about) in older athletes who want to continue doing explosive sports (in track and Field), particularly the sprints, hurdles, jumps, polymetrics and even stadium stair runs ... that is been referred to as the "Calf Heart Attack";

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=6071.

The bottom line is ... Can Steroids help? If so, which and why? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I don't mind discussing things offline either.


I personally suffer from this, my case history is below:

My Background:
*******************
* 45 hear old male in excellent health still competing in amature sports at the masters level (Jumps, weights, sprints)
* 6 feet, 4 inches tall, 190lbs, nonsmoker, very healthy eating habbits, (I own a Vita-Mix: www.vita-mix.com/ )
* Blood pressure, and specific blood markers are all w/in normal limits.
* Former College Decathlete, Basketball player, competed at 185lbs.
* 2 undergraduate degrees (BA/BS), 2 graduate degrees (MS/MBA)

My Problem:
***************
* I get frequent of Grade 1 and Grade 2 strains of my calf musches in either calf when engaging in explosive exercises like polymetrics, sprinting, jumping or stadium runs as defined here:

http://www.aurorahealthcare.org/your...ate=11984.html

* It's been frequently been called a "Calf Heart Attack".
http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=6071

* No problems with ordinary everyday usage, easy jogging, etc.

* More specifically, the strains (or Micro Tears) occure close where the Soleus and the Gastrocnemius meet the TOP of the Achilles Tendon.
http://www.health.com/health/static/...nr55552004.jpg

* I've had this condition for 10 years running with 'only' mild success gained from the typical RICE regiment combined with deep tissue massage and medical laser therapy from a sports therapist.

* I've also 'only' had mild success with natural supplements therapy: a regiment of hyaluronic acid, bromelain, broad spectrum systemic enzymes, boswellia powder, zyflamend, tumeric (in fatty acid), glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSN.

* I have had NO success in getting to the point where I can train at 100% confidence that sometime the Grade 1 or 2 calf strain won't re-occure when I do any significant sessions type of explosive movement.

[dr_gonosz]

Hi yah,

I am in a similar boat. I was a 'clean' professional athlete who is now making a comeback in a different sport which requires a large amount of power (at the age of 40) However, my profession is in performance sport. I was a track coach (now an academic). I have knowledge of the negatives of steroids but am now looking into its uses. Most of the information that I have found out there is related to hypertrophy and body building.

What I can say about your situation is that you can look into the following areas to find natural solutions:

1/ Micro stretching: Developed by Nikos Apostolopoulos http://www.microstretching.com/html/what_is.html
-I have conducted research using this technique and have found it very useful for both development of power as well as dealing with micro tears.

2/ German body building methods: Probably best exemplified by Poliquin's "Manly weight loss" book. Basically eccentric weight training may be able to overcome the shock of the jump training / plyometrics that are common in track.

With regards to the possibility of steroid use, I am just now starting to get relatively useful information. I will keep the info in layman terms. Bulking steroids -even in relatively low amounts- are not good due to the water retention. Cutting steroids are a possibility. Anavar seems to best fit this description.

However, as I mentioned I am having problems find legitimate information. I am off to Eastern Europe and German next year to search out qualified knowledge.

If you find anything out there on sport performance and sport injury regarding steriods please let me know.

Good luck

[chijoe]

Hi dr_gonosz,

Thanks for the good information, I'll look into your links right away.

My (limited) research has also directed me against bulking compounds and toward cutting compounds, particularly Anavar ... so that is good to see some consistency in the research from an independent source.

Let me know when you are in Germany (I'm in Holland, Limburgh), we can do coffee.

Many thanks again!

- ChiJoe

[MuscleScience]

This almost sounds like an infomercial thread to me, but if its not I apologize.

Anyway, try looking into a Method called Active Release Technique (A.R.T.). It is used by Chiropractors, ATC sports trainers, some progressive Physical Therapist and some Orthopods. Its mainly used by Chiropractors because they tend to do more soft tissue work than most others. I worked with you nutty ass endurance guys (JOKE) for years and seen techniques like this or similar ones work fairly well. Since I know you will not take off the required 4-6 weeks to let it heal on its own its worth a shot.

Regards.

[MuscleScience]

Hi yah,

I am in a similar boat. I was a 'clean' professional athlete who is now making a comeback in a different sport which requires a large amount of power (at the age of 40) However, my profession is in performance sport. I was a track coach (now an academic). I have knowledge of the negatives of steroids but am now looking into its uses. Most of the information that I have found out there is related to hypertrophy and body building.

What I can say about your situation is that you can look into the following areas to find natural solutions:

1/ Micro stretching: Developed by Nikos Apostolopoulos http://www.microstretching.com/html/what_is.html
-I have conducted research using this technique and have found it very useful for both development of power as well as dealing with micro tears.

2/ German body building methods: Probably best exemplified by Poliquin's "Manly weight loss" book. Basically eccentric weight training may be able to overcome the shock of the jump training / plyometrics that are common in track.

With regards to the possibility of steroid use, I am just now starting to get relatively useful information. I will keep the info in layman terms. Bulking steroids -even in relatively low amounts- are not good due to the water retention. Cutting steroids are a possibility. Anavar seems to best fit this description.

However, as I mentioned I am having problems find legitimate information. I am off to Eastern Europe and German next year to search out qualified knowledge.

If you find anything out there on sport performance and sport injury regarding steriods please let me know.

Good luck

Wenn Sie Deutsch oder sogar Russisch, was das betrifft, sprechen, gibt es viel primäre Literatur auf Sportarten und Steroiden von Ostdeutschland.

[dr_gonosz]

Hi Musclescience,

I speak a little of both. However, I am working on an online sport language translator which should help a bit. I have been to University of Koln many times but I am thinking I need to find the people involved with that kind of program back in the day.

Thank-you for the tip. Much appreciated.

[asimov]

Deca, or another anabolic (test enanthate) that increases joint fluid/water retention may help.

Playing pro baseball many years back I went thru a long period of shoulder trouble. After every game in which I pitched, I would experience acute shoulder pain. Most every day I'd wake up with a sore/tight shoulder, but the spasms were the worst. I would get those any night that I pitched, usually a few hour after the game during my first hour or two of sleep. It would get so bad I'd have to go out jogging, or some other sustained exercise, in the middle of the night. That would relieve the spasms for a few hours at least. Getting it checked out, the doc told me I had micro tears in the deltoid that would spasm after the intense activity.

Someone recommended Deca to help out. My source told me I would start getting relief within 8-10 days once the side effect of increase water retention had a chance to kick in. Like clockwork, on the 8th day using Deca (200mg shot on Day 1 and Day 4) I woke up and shoulder felt incredibly better. I'd say about 80% of the discomfort literally disappeared, beginning that morning. I stopped getting the spasm attacks in the middle of the night.

Since the water retention lasts for sometime (weeks or up to 2 months in my case) after stopping Deca use, all I needed was the 2 shot "jump start" that first few days.

Now, whenever I used anything that caused water retention I'd typically have some trouble with shin splint type pain when I did distance running. But only with distance running, nothing else. Stadium steps might be an issue there.

[chijoe]

I've been recommended to investigate the use of the below as a possible solution to the 'Calf Heart Attack" and wonder if any of you have an opinion about it?

Many thanks again! :-)

*************

1) .... so look into HGH, or Hexarelin, or perhaps IGF-LR3 for direct treatment of your calves.
2) ..... Give it a shot at 600-800mg a week for 18-20 weeks with 300mg of Testosterone Enth/Cyp and see how you feel.

[asimov]

I've used HGH as a direct treatment for very overworked, sore muscles and I gotta say it worked great. Used it on my tricep, I believe it was a 10 IU shot injected into the muscle at three spaced out spots. The trouble I had been going thru with my tricep was bad, and it felt great by the next day. The person who recommended this to me had it done to him by a doctor, on a pulled hamstring. That was a bit more serious, it did not get better overnight, but he said it didn't take long and he didn't have trouble with that hammy again.

I don't know much about Hexarelin or IGF-LR3.

As for option #2, doesn't sound good to me. That's a real long time to use any anabolic, you may pack on a lot of weight during such a period and you'd be suppressing your body's own testosterone production for a very long time. As far as my knowledge goes, don't see how a program like that would help you out.

[chijoe]

I'm not a fan of injections from early in childhood ... is that the ONLY form legit HGH comes in ?

My other question is ... given the nature of reoccurance of this injury ... about 12+ years now ... could HGH actually heal this thing once and for all or is it the best temporary solution I've got at the moment?

[asimov]

Its THE only way. The sprays, junk like that, are no good.

Don't know about your second question. Would depend what exactly is causing your injury. Have you actually had it checked out by a doc/ physical therapist, did not see that in your original post.

A HGH injection may be a temporary solution. For my friend it was permanent because his was a straight muscle injury. Mine was only temporary because the tricep pain was just a symptom of a bone spur in my elbow. The HGH gave me great relief, but there was no way it was going to keep the pain from coming back. I had a structural issue that HGH wasn't going to overcome. The running times article you linked mentions something called "compartment syndrome." You may have a structural barrier there. Do you stretch the area as much as those articles suggest?

[spywizard]

How about some taurine..

lets start there..

steroids are not the end all....

[spywizard]

This almost sounds like an infomercial thread to me, but if its not I apologize.

Anyway, try looking into a Method called Active Release Technique (A.R.T.). It is used by Chiropractors, ATC sports trainers, some progressive Physical Therapist and some Orthopods. Its mainly used by Chiropractors because they tend to do more soft tissue work than most others. I worked with you nutty ass endurance guys (JOKE) for years and seen techniques like this or similar ones work fairly well. Since I know you will not take off the required 4-6 weeks to let it heal on its own its worth a shot.

Regards.

oh hell.. active release... might as well try rolfing... it will change your life..

[chijoe]

Its THE only way. The sprays, junk like that, are no good.

Don't know about your second question. Would depend what exactly is causing your injury. Have you actually had it checked out by a doc/ physical therapist, did not see that in your original post.

A HGH injection may be a temporary solution. For my friend it was permanent because his was a straight muscle injury. Mine was only temporary because the tricep pain was just a symptom of a bone spur in my elbow. The HGH gave me great relief, but there was no way it was going to keep the pain from coming back. I had a structural issue that HGH wasn't going to overcome. The running times article you linked mentions something called "compartment syndrome." You may have a structural barrier there. Do you stretch the area as much as those articles suggest?

I've been checked out by at least 3 physical therapists and there is no compartment syndrome. That disorder is a function of the front of the calf (from what I'm told) not the back of it where my problems occur. I do stretch quite alot on a daily basis so it's not that.

Mechanically, my problems involve the combination of both eccentric and concentric contractions w/the calf muscle. When sprinting on ones toes (as opposed to the heal to toe movement of distance runners), one's foot lands on the ground ball of the foot first, then heal lands (the 'eccentric' movement - kind of like a 'negative' in lifting), next then the 'concentric' movement takes place (akin to the push movement in weight lifting) whereas the explosive action pushes the body from the ball of the foot forward. It's this explosive combination of both eccentric and concentric contractions w/the calf muscle that causes Micro tears in the calf muscle near the tendon. My guess is that there is alot of scar tissue there from the years of re-injury that's not helping either. I've had it on both calves but this particular episode started in February and won't let up.

I'm looking for ways to force the injury to hear and then to strengthen the area w/regards to explosive movements so that it won't happen again.

[chijoe]

I've just returned from a visit with one the Hollands PhD (Limburgh) sports Doctors who's an authority in calf injuries among athletes.

He examined my case to the best of his abilities and then effectively told me that there is nothing I can do, and that no matter what I do to treat this thing that it'll never get better.

He ruled out HGH or any of the other substances as he diagnosed the issue as a chronic MicroTear and proceeded to tell me that this is THE most difficult problem to solve, and that although there are things (negative training, stretching, clinical massage) that I could do which might improve it but that I could never be sure it wouldn't fail me at any time in the future.

Now .... as doctors in Holland go (per the medical systems in a socialized country) I'm not entirely sure I believe him. It's kind of the way things work here in Holland, they take the low hanging fruit and send the tough patients home or away since they take up too much of their time.

So .... I'm kind of fishing for suggestions and then options/alternatives and support in all of this, since this guy effectively told me it's time to hang it up.

Thoughts, suggestions, anything ?

[asimov]

^ In high school, I had a chronic knee issue and a orthopedic doc told me to "hang it up." One college and a 8 year pro baseball career I'm glad I walked out of that office thinking, "**** this guy." And he was good, too.

I've had some great docs in my time. And even the very best have admitted to me that they don't know everything. Head docs from the Reds and the Mariners couldn't figure out how to solve my shoulder issues, but ultimately a high school athletic trainer suggested a simple change in my rehab approach that led to me getting past that problem.

I don't see any risk in trying something like a direct HGH injection; or trying out that 2 shot Test Enanthate deal to spur some water retention in you. As long as you get these things from a safe source, and do things the right way there is no harm in trying, IMHO.