Oral cycle?

[learnerdriver]

Hi i was wondering what you thought about a first time cycle being all oral, stacking winny and anavar.

height : 6ft
Weight : 164
Age : 27
bf% : 12 to 14%
calories : 3200 sometimes more

I have been training 2 years, got diet down well even though weight doesn't seem that way lol. I used to weigh 9 and 1/2 stone. Rather ectomporphic but not too much of a hard gainer just don't store much fat.

I'm after slow and steady gains that i can keep.

[Ernst]

14% at 6' 164lbs? Let's see that diet....

[learnerdriver]

the 14% is a guess not had it checked so could be totally wrong

[guitario]

6ft, 164lbs would suggest to me about 8-10% although thats assuming you have at least a solid base of muscle gained naturally.

[subaruwrx04]

Im 6ft. 195 lbs. 4% bf.. I teach martial arts so being huge isnt my goal. But I would eat more my friend. U have much more room to grow. Eat and eat my friend and lift.

[learnerdriver]

meal 1: oats
6 eggs (raw) with milk

1 gallon milk throughout day (full fat)

meal 2: chicken breast and pasta cottage cheese veg

meal 3: 2 tuna sanadwhiches (wholemeal bread and spinach)

meal 4: same as meal 2

meal 5: fish and veg some sweet potato

meal 6: protein shake

different fruits nuts and peatnut butter as snacks which i don't monitor so cals not exact

[learnerdriver]

i know can definately improve more. It took me while to get up to that amount of food so progress has been steady, weight is going up nicely now but am really not very broad at all and wrists are onlt 6.5 inches lol.

[alpmaster]

meal 1: oats
6 eggs (raw) with milk

1 gallon milk throughout day (full fat)

meal 2: chicken breast and pasta cottage cheese veg

meal 3: 2 tuna sanadwhiches (wholemeal bread and spinach)

meal 4: same as meal 2

meal 5: fish and veg some sweet potato

meal 6: protein shake

different fruits nuts and peatnut butter as snacks which i don't monitor so cals not exact

There is no need for consuming raw eggs. You will absorb less protein and it could be potentially dangerous if they're not paseurized. You're diet is also really high in fat (and saturated fat, eew). Eat a lot more carbs (oats, pasta, cereals, rice, and bread). Try to split it 55/30/15 C/P/F, getting at least 1g of protein per lb of body weight.

[learnerdriver]

Hi alpmaster what do you feel i should change in my diet. I know that full fat milk is high in saturated fat and peanut butter is but both provide me with high amounts of protien/carbs and calories and make it easier for me to reach my goals. I can't eat eggs cooked they mess with me and i skip meals. I was lookin into liquid egg whites.

[learnerdriver]

Also am not looking into to doing a cycle now, just researching for future reference and boredom. I have a lot more to read and eat 1st

[subaruwrx04]

I think you need to add some steak in there..

[T-MOS]

Also am not looking into to doing a cycle now, just researching for future reference and boredom. I have a lot more to read and eat 1st

as stated your diet is the first thing you need to improve. that said,

I would NOT do that oral only cycle, as anavar is rather weak by itself, and winny WILL shut you down so you would want to add at least some testosterone in there even if its only 200mgs/week

[SampsonandDelilah]

First off...the answer to your question is NO - DO NOT run an oral only cycle. First cycle should be test only, and moving forward all future cycles should contain test as well. (though by your stats, you are no where near ready).

Secondly, although your diet does need help...eating raw eggs is fine. (not sure what alpmaster means by "you'll absorb less protein"). I eat 18 - 24 raw egg whites a day, and have done so for years. mostly for quick meals with raw oats/milk and whey.

a quick equation for a bulker diet would be to take your weight, mulitiply it by 15 and add 500. that will give you a rough estimate on needed calories for the day. so if you weigh 164...you'll need to consume over 3000 cals a day. Alpmaster's C/P/F split is fine....i'd shoot for 2 grams of protein per body weight however.

spend your time in the diet section for now...and remember rule # 1

ORALS ONLY ARE BAD!

[alpmaster]

Secondly, although your diet does need help...eating raw eggs is fine. (not sure what alpmaster means by "you'll absorb less protein"). I eat 18 - 24 raw egg whites a day, and have done so for years. mostly for quick meals with raw oats/milk and whey.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

http:///fun/drryan28.htm

Or if you'd like a scientific look at it:

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/128/10/1716

Unless you want to feel like Rocky, eggs should NOT be consumed raw.

[learnerdriver]

Alpmaster what do you feel about liquid egg whites as they are heat treated?

[SampsonandDelilah]

Sorry to burst your bubble.

[url][/url

Or if you'd like a scientific look at it:



Unless you want to feel like Rocky, eggs should NOT be consumed raw.

First off bro...you're incapable of "bursting my bubble".

Secondly, well aware of perceived biotin deficiency (and potential syndrome) the article fails to mention not everyone is succeptible. Raw egg whites should not be the staple of any diet, however adding them to shakes is totally acceptable IMO. Not always purely as a protein source either...many essential nutrients in an egg. Of the nutrients in an egg, riboflavin, thiamin and folic acid are generalIy less heat stable than other nutrients. Also, overcooking an egg can kill the available protein as well. I eat the shit out of them, and many guys on this board do as well. I've rotated them in and out of my diet, and can attest to them being instrumental as a quick food source when thrown in with other ingrediants such as milk/whey and oats.

You don't like them....don't eat them.
As for myself...I know what works for me

[learnerdriver]

i love staring debates

[SampsonandDelilah]

i love staring debates

sorry for getting this thing off track...find a diet that works for YOU.

And most importantly...stay away from an oral only cycle.

[T-MOS]

Sorry to burst your bubble.

http://************/fun/drryan28.htm

Or if you'd like a scientific look at it:

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/128/10/1716

Unless you want to feel like Rocky, eggs should NOT be consumed raw.

Alpmaster, please edit the first link. no links to other bb forums allowed

Sampson, you need to edit the link in your quote please as well

[learnerdriver]

So orals have a tendency to shut down HPTA, most seem to have this affect, i'm guessing testosterone combats this because your natty test is shut down.
Hmmm guess that's the next line of research then. Is testosterone the cleanest and most effiecient roid there is?
what's the standard pct for test?

[learnerdriver]

it's ok i like the debating i learn a lot

[alpmaster]

Was trying to educate more than debate, but hey, do what you want.

LD, if you don't know whats good to eat and whats not for your diet, then you should not be thinking about steroids. Get everything else down first, read till you have a migraine and live what you learn. Then see if you want to use AAS for further enhancement.

What you need to learn is that someone who's diet and training are correct and consistent will make way better gains in muscle, health, and well being than one who is using AAS and hasn't a clue what they're doing.

I always say to people, the key to what you want to do with your body comes down to two things (barring freaky genetics or disorders), and they are knowledge and will. Improving both will improve your body, and you can't achieve much with only one. For instance, you can have a nutritionist and exercise science major that are very over weight and out of shape (trust me, there's many of them out there). All the knowledge, none of the will. Or you can have the scrawny little guy in the gym doing set after set after set of barbell curls till his arms fall off, and has a soda after his workout. All the will, none of the knowledge.


Work on those two things and get the results you want, then you'll know when/if you want to try adding AAS into the mix.

[learnerdriver]

thanks good advice