Clenbuterol\Diete\Workout critics!

[King Antichrist]

Hey there guys!

New member here! I did my introduction right here if anyone is interested : http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=439497

I've been reading to forum for hours now and i must admit that I have never seen a forum with so much infos, it's unbelievable! Awesome forum i say!

Anyway, so I am starting a Clenbuterol cycle soon and just wanted to have you guy's critics on how i am planing all this. That includes my diet and training routine!

So for the stats part... I am 23 years old, 5p11' and ~175Lbs for around 15%BF. Never did any cycle at all and have been training for the past 6 months only. Beginner i guess. I train 5 days a week for about 1h30. For more infos about me, check my introduction thread i linked above.

Like i said in my introduction, my goal is just to get as lean as possible and to finally get rid of my love handles. I want to get ripped and be able to see my abs... I don't mind loosing a bit of muscles while trying to get as lean as possible. My trainer says i will need to cut down to 145-150Lbs to see my abs... So that is my goal. With the lowest possible %BF...

Here is an example of my diet ATM :

Meal 1 (06h45)
8 EGGS WHITES
30GR ALLEGRO 4% WHITE CHEESE OR 85GR GREEK YOGOURT
1 BANANA

Meal 2 (10h00)
2 SLICES OF WHOLE WHEAT BROWN BREAD
2 TBSP ALL NATURAL PEANUT\ALMOND BUTTER
1 APPLE

Meal 3 (12h30)
200GR CHICKEN BREAST
1/2 CUP BROWN RICE (Measured before cooking)
2 CUPS GREEN VEGGIES

Meal 4 (15h00)
1 SCOOP ISO PROTEIN
1 BANANA

POST-WORKOUT (18h30)
1 SCOOP ISO PROTEIN

Meal 5 (19h30)
150GR HORSE MEAT
2 CUPS BROCCOLI

Meal 6 (21h30)
125GR 1% COTTAGE CHEESE (Before bed)


NOTE that i have 4 different examples of diet with different fat\prot sources but all are on par with macros. Same prot\fat\carbs intake throughout the whole day. Also, i have 2 different examples of diet for days i don't workout. Those 2 examples have less calories (Mainly by reducing carbs quantity intake).

Also, when i reach 165Lbs (Currently at 175Lbs) i seem to stall on weight loss so i spoke with my trainer and he made a few changes on all my diet examples. All 1\2 CUP BROWN RICE cut down to 1\4 CUP and the 2 SLICES OF BROWN BREAD - 2 TBSP OF ALL NATURAL PEANUT\ALMOND BUTTER cut down to 1 ... That makes 200-250 cals less for a day mainly cut from carb and fat sources.

For the supplements part :

1x AnimalPak bag every morning.
2x Omega-3 Caps in the morning and 2x more at noon.
5gr Glutamine upon rising and 5 more with my post-workout shake.
5-10gr of 4:1:1 BCAAs during workout with a Crytal Light.
And that's about it.

For the workout routine :

It's a 5 days split routine. I get a new one every 2 months or so from my trainer. Day 1 = Chest\Biceps - Day 2 = Shoulders\Traps\Triceps - Day 3 = Legs\Abs - Day 4 = Back\Biceps - Day 5 = Chest\Cardio

On day 5 i do 30mins of HIIT cardio and it's the only time i do cardio during the week. Except for the 8mins before each workout to heat up... All workouts last for about 1h45mins including heat-up and stretching.

Now for the Clenbuterol part :

Here is what i am planing on doing. I took all the infos from this forum () and from the guy who sold me the Clenbuterol.

I'm planing on doing a 2 weeks ON followed by 2 weeks OFF and so on until 2 months (Maybe less depending on the results). The Clenbuterol i have is in tabs form (Pink pills) and it's described as 100mcg pills. The guy who sold them to me went from 188Lbs to 143Lbs in 6 weeks. Quite impressive! Anyway, so this is the way he recommends me to do it :

Day 1 to 3 = 1\4 of a tab (Which would make 25mcg) every mornings, 30mins before first meal.
Day 4 to 6 = 1\2 of a tab every mornings.
Day 7 to 9 = 3\4 of a tab every mornings.
Day 10 to 12 = 1 whole tab every mornings.
Day 13 and 14 = 1 + 1\4 of a tab every mornings.

That is if all goes well and the side effects are tolerable. Otherwise, i will adjust the dosage.

He also recommended that i take a supplement of Taurine (3-5gr) and Potassium (recommended dosage on bottle) daily during my 2 weeks ON and 50mg of Benadryl everynights before bed while on the 2 weeks OFF.

I have 2 questions regarding those supplements when taking Clen tho. Do i really need the supplement of Potassium when on the 2 weeks ON? There is already 100mg with each of the AnimalPak i take every mornings. Also, do i need to be taking Benadryl each and every nights (that means 14) when on the 2 weeks OFF?

Thanks a lot for all the help you guys can bring, i really appreciate it! All comments\critics\recommendations\tips etc... are welcome!

PS: I hope i haven't broke any rules! One must admit that there is so much infos\rules on here, it's pretty hard to remember them all heh!

[King Antichrist]

Any1 has advices or comments to help me reach my goal?

[TKO Performance]

First off saying you have to get down to a certain weight to see your abs is ludicrous. Some guys have a 6 pack at 12%, others barely have outlines at 8%. It's a very dependent thing. Skin tone makes a huge difference in visible separation and definition. If you're light skinned you may want to do some tanning to darken up and bring out your definition.

Am I missing something in your routine? Did you say you'd only been training for six months? If so I think you are overtraining. To really go hard you should not work a body part more than once a week. With only 6 months of training under your belt you do not have enough muscle recovery to work body parts twice a week. You're killing your gains. The only exception to this are abs, calves, and to an extent back. I'd like to see your routine look more like this:

Mon: Chest/Upper Back/Abs/Calves
Wed: Shoulders/Arms/Abs/Calves
Friday: Legs/Low Back/Abs/Calves

Every other week switch from straight sets to a pyramid on your major power exercises (bench, deadlift, squats). But stagger legs and chest, in other words don't do a week where you do a bench pyramid and a squat pyramid, etc. Pyramid should be warm up, 10 reps, 8 reps, 6 reps, 4 reps, drop set. Otherwise work four (plus a warm up) straight sets of 10-12 reps for three exercises per body part. Abs you should do an ab routine like Ab Ripper from P90X, and calves you should do 2 exercises with 3 sets each. Build more muscle and your base metabolism will go up (it's the only thing that can make it go up). It should be obvious, but I'll say it anyway, stay away from steroids as you are too young. Using that workout you should add 10 lbs every 6 weeks to your set weight for big exercises (bench, squats) and 5 lbs every 6-8 weeks on smaller exercises (curls, etc.). Your max should go up every two months by 20-30 lbs easily.

Getting cut you need lots of cardio. I'd be doing cardio at least three days a week at about 60-75% intensity for an hour minimum.

Your diet looks good, make sure not to underfuel. Make sure to get enough B vitamins and C as well as Omegas. Bs should e taken a couple times a day as they are quickly eliminated from the body.

My goal would be for your to trade 10lbs of fat for 10 lbs of muscle and have you around 165.

[JBarron]

Any1 has advices or comments to help me reach my goal?

lol pumping iron. "it's not that hard for me to give him the wrong advices."

[King Antichrist]

Thanks for taking time to comment on my thread!

I will take all you're advices on the training routine! One thing tho i forgot to mention is that on Day 4 of my training routine, I'm only doing 1 bicep exercise. It's just... Well, i don't know. I'll ask my trainer why im doing 1 bicep exercise at the end of my back routine. Same thing for Day 5. I'm doing chest twice a week mainly because my trainer says i really have to develop my chest. I had been doing too much flys when i started training and he said i had to calibrate all other parts of my chest. That's why I'm doing chest twice a week. But times with different exercise. I bench on Day 1 and do other chest exercises on Day 5.

I also thought about stopping the cut at about 160Lbs and start with a clean bulk to add more muscles to up my metabolism. But one thing that is kinda weird is that even at 160Lbs, I'd still be having "love handles" ... I guess I'm just made to have "love handles"... I'm fearing that if i ever want to lose them completely, I would have to become so thin that it wouldn't be healthy for me.... What do you think?

BTW: My trainer said i had to drop to 150Lbs or so to finally see my abs but he also said that at 15% BF (Like me), he would start to see his own abs pop out but for me, i barely see the 2 first upper ones...

Oh and I'll take your advice. I have a quite light looking skin under my t-shirt... White skin i mean. But i am 50% Spanish and when i go out to light, i get a darker tone much quicker than most ppls. Ever during winter.

Oh and as for cardio, I also thought about adding more sessions during the week but my trainer said unless i would be willing to do a lot more (Like 1-2 hours 4-5 days a week) well, that it was useless. I basically was just wasting my water... Is that true?

Again, thank you for your time! Really appreciated!

[TKO Performance]

Okay, so you want to develop your chest to bring it up to par with the rest of your physique. I can respect that. At one point I had a similar desire. However, training chest twice a week was not the answer. All that did was overtrain what was at the time underdevopled muscles. You need mass, and the only way to do that is to do a heavy chest workout once a week, and give the muscles time to recover before tearing them down again. My chest is now one of my strongest points. I would suggest the following:

A Week: warmup set
4 sets of 10 flat bench
4 sets of 10 incline bench
4 sets of 10-12 flys

B Week: warmup set
1 set of 10 flat bench
1 set of 8 flat bench
1 set of 6 flat bench
1 set of 4 flat bench
1 drop set

You do not want to get all reps of all sets. You should get at least 8 reps out of 10, etc. If you are not getting at least half you are using too much weight. When you get all the reps in all the sets bump the weight up by 10 lbs the following week. For the drop set on pyramid day do to exhaustion with a weight maybe 20lbs less than your starting weight (set of 10).

I guarantee this will blow your chest up and make you very strong rather quickly without any illegal assistance. FYI, for my drop set I've had weeks where I did 225 16 times after benching 300 at the top of the pyramid. When I was younger I didn't know about this stuff and wasted years trying to work out my chest two or three days a week. My max bench back then was like 250. I've done 4 sets of 10 with 255 using this technique. I wouldn't steer you wrong. Tell your trainer you want to give it a try. Give it two or three months and I promise you won't be sorry.

As for your love handles, depending on how heavy you once were some of them may be extra skin, which is hard to get rid of. Eventually your skin will shrink back, but it takes time. If you have any stretch marks in your abdominal area, particularly on the obliques that's a dead giveaway. Take your Omega oils and E vitamins to speed up the process. Work your abs hard to build up the underlying muscles too. It won't make the fat go away, but it will get things toned and start making your abs pop out.

I hear you about skin tone. I'm mostly German and Irish, so I'm fairly light too. I don't get a deep bronze, rather I tend to get red if I'm out too long. It isn't sunburn either, just the color my skin takes on. You're more like my brother who seems to have more expression of our very limited Italian heritage. He can get very dark.

As for cardio I've found that longer is typically better, so your trainer is kind of right about that. But here's the deal. The first 20 minutes of cardio is when your body makes the switch from burning stored muscle glycogen to actively burning body fat. So if you work out for an hour you are into that good fat burning metabolism for 40 minutes. One thing you might try is to go somewhat lighter intensity in the beginning, and then kick it up 20 minutes in. The idea is to save your muscle mass from being consumed and maximize fat burning. With 1 hour 3 days a week you should still be able to burn up your body fat as long as your diet is proper, and it looks like it is. Try switching up your cardio too. Your body becomes resistant to training. Running is good, but try to throw in some plyometrics or martial arts if possible.

[TKO Performance]

Also on your B Week for chest you should add:

4 sets 10 reps decline bench
4 sets 10-12 reps flys or pullovers

It shouldn't just be the heavy pyramid. Also, if you're feeling good and getting all your reps on the pyramid you can try a set of 1 or 2 at the top (after your set of 4). This is sort of like a max, but not really. Your true max will always be higher, because you're still tired from the preceding sets.

[King Antichrist]

Wow, thanks for all the tips TKO Perfromance!

My current chest wourkout (Day 1) looks a lot like the one you described above!

Decline Push-ups 3x12 (Warm up)

SUPERSET
- 3 x 8 Incline Bench press
- 3 x 8 DB flys

Pyramidal Flat Bench press 12 - 10 - 8 - 6 then 15

Pullover 4 x 10 And that's about it.

On Day 5 i do a quick "wrap up" of some muscle groups along with 30 mins of HIIT cardio.

For my chest, I am doing 4 x 10 DB Bench press

Then Peck deck 4x10-12 reps starting by holding the bars in front of me for 20 sec before going all out for the 10-12 reps.

And finally, 4x MAX Normal push-ups. Been doing this since 2 months now. Last week i asked my trainer to make me a new workout routine. But now that I'm thinking about it, i will ask him a 3 day split routine and will be doing 2-3 days of slow steady (75%) cardio for about 1hr each times trying to alternate my cardio workout (Elyptical, treadmill, bicycle etc...).

Does that sounds right to you?

BTW: Do you have any comment on my Clenbuterol cycle? I am not interested in doing any roids for now, just trying to get a little help to loose that stubborn fat.

Oh and i have exactly what you said... Those stretch marks on my oblique from when i took 30 pounds (Or more...) during a winter because i had quit smoking POT and cigarette (Maybe 4-5 years ago)... I have been fat but not obese ever since I'm 12 years old (Now 23). The biggest i have been is 210Lbs. And when i started training and loosing weight, i was at 200Lbs.

How much time per weeks should i be doing abs BTW? And should i be doing them with or without weights. Currently, i am doing 3x25 Crunchs holding 20Lbs over my heads and 3x20 hanging leg raises once a week... And that's it. Should i be doing more?

Thanks a lot!

[TKO Performance]

Again, I strongly urge you to only work chest once a week. Your day 5 is still pretty heavy on the chest. You could get away with a few sets of pushups maybe, but no weights. The goal would be stretching mainly and a little blood flow, but no working to exhaustion. Supersets are also better for smaller body parts like arms and shoulders I've found. They can be effective with chest, but I wouldn't do them every week. Maybe once a month as part of the shocking principle. Also, to actively build muscle you want 10 reps max in a set, and even 8 is okay. When you start getting into 12 reps you're doing more toning work. From what I'm gathering of your program it seems to be more of a sculpting routine. That's okay for fat loss, but keep in mind that weight training is never going to burn a lot of fat. The metabolism at play is totally different than when you do cardio. What weight training contributes is that building muscle mass speeds your basal metabolic rate. Consequently I always think that the goal of weight training should be at least in part mass based.

I'm on the fence with Clen. Some claim it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, others say the side effects make it not worth it. It seems to affect different people differently. Two weeks on/two weeks off seems to be the preferred use though, if you do decide to try it. I'd be careful tough if you are taking anything with ephedrine, ephedra, ect., or even if you drink a lot of caffine. Clen will increase your resting metabolism by increasing core temp and possibly your resting heart rate. Stimulants do that also. Too much could be bad, especially when elevating the heart rate during cardio. Personally I stay away from stimulants, even caffine. I am hyper sensitive to them and develop dependency quickly, with bad withdrawl symptoms.

I would work abs 3 times a week. I don't work abs with weights. Doing proper exercises you will get plenty of resistance from your own body weight. Crunches and hanging leg raises are okay, but things like oblique v-ups, pulse ups, v-up/roll ups, and others keep the abs in constant tension without placing strain on your back like crunches can. Leg raises don't do that. but they can fry your hip flexors before your abs get a good workout, which leads to lackluster results.

[freakinhuge]

sounds like you have really planned this out, the clen is great for cutting, good luck you should definitely lose weight.

[King Antichrist]

sounds like you have really planned this out, the clen is great for cutting, good luck you should definitely lose weight.

Thanks man! Yeah, I'm really hoping to see results with this. Plus I'm adding 30mins of HITT cardio 3 times a week. BTW: About HIIT cardio, is it considered HIIT cardio if i do 30secs 100% then 1min 70% and so on? Or should it be more hardcore than that?

Or should i simply do something like 45mins at 75%..?

I might have to buy some new Clenbuterol tho as mine actually is turning to be fake. Not 100% sure since i haven't taken it yet but my pills are 100mcg and i can't manage to cut a single one of them without having them break down into powder... Then how am i supposed to measure my dosage? And if the pills are turning that much into powder when trying to cut them, they might just be fake. I have posted pics in the "pics section" of the forum asking for you guy's opinions on this.

[TKO Performance]

If looking to lose weight longer time with constant intensity is a better way to go. I'd never look to be at 100% intensity. 100% is a number for safety reasons, and it should be 220-age in bpm. At 23 that would be 197 bpm! No one in their right mind would ever advise you to shoot for that. Over that your risk induced arythmia and a possible infarction. If you want to get that scientific with it get a heartrate monitor and shoot for like 160-170bpm. I've found that constant load over a long period is best for weight loss, FYI.

Pills breaking down to powder seems like they weren't pressed under enough force, or didn't have enough binders in them. If they are from an underground lab they might still be legit. If they are supposedly pharmaceutical grade I'd say bunk is more likely.

[King Antichrist]

If looking to lose weight longer time with constant intensity is a better way to go. I'd never look to be at 100% intensity. 100% is a number for safety reasons, and it should be 220-age in bpm. At 23 that would be 197 bpm! No one in their right mind would ever advise you to shoot for that. Over that your risk induced arythmia and a possible infarction. If you want to get that scientific with it get a heartrate monitor and shoot for like 160-170bpm. I've found that constant load over a long period is best for weight loss, FYI.

Pills breaking down to powder seems like they weren't pressed under enough force, or didn't have enough binders in them. If they are from an underground lab they might still be legit. If they are supposedly pharmaceutical grade I'd say bunk is more likely.

Thanks for your reply!

Yeah, then i guess I'm not going at 100%. Tonight i did 30mins of HIIT cardio on a treadmill. Shooting for 1min at 5.5 miles per hours then 30 secs at 8.0 miles per hours. I guess when running on the 8.0 speed, my heartrate is in the 165-170ish and when on 5.5 speed, I'm at 145bpm or so.

So you suggest that i should be doing like maybe 45mins instead and at something like 150bpm or so?

Oh and as for the Clen, well, it's an underground labs which the guy who sold them to me said it was good. I might actually try to break the tab pieces but I'm afraid the dosage wouldn't be right and i could suffer from that. So i might just end up buying some Clen from AR-R.com Or i could try to dissolve the tabs in some liquid and then take 1\4 of that liquid and so on to get the dosage right. What do you personally think?

[TKO Performance]

Personally I like cardio for about an hour. The first 20 minutes is spent just getting into fat burning metabolism, so then you have 40 solid minutes of using fat for energy. I'd shoot to hold that 8 minute mile pace. At 8 minutes a mile you could theoretically run 7.5 miles in an hour. Extrapolated out that's like marathon runner pace. I know at peak I could run 8 miles in an hour and 10 in an hour and 15 minutes. I was down to like 6-8% BF then.

I'd reduce the tabs pack to powder and dose it that way if you're unsure. A mortar and pestle is cheap, and so is a small sliding weight scale. Then you're 100% sure of the dose.

[ninesecz]

Need to eat a real food meal an hour after the fast digesting protein after your workout. The body needs whole food. you have your whole food meals nearly 6hrs apart. Need to throw a real meal in there an hour after you PWO Shake

[King Antichrist]

Personally I like cardio for about an hour. The first 20 minutes is spent just getting into fat burning metabolism, so then you have 40 solid minutes of using fat for energy. I'd shoot to hold that 8 minute mile pace. At 8 minutes a mile you could theoretically run 7.5 miles in an hour. Extrapolated out that's like marathon runner pace. I know at peak I could run 8 miles in an hour and 10 in an hour and 15 minutes. I was down to like 6-8% BF then.

I'd reduce the tabs pack to powder and dose it that way if you're unsure. A mortar and pestle is cheap, and so is a small sliding weight scale. Then you're 100% sure of the dose.

Thanks, I'll check it out!

lol pumping iron. "it's not that hard for me to give him the wrong advices."

Lol...

Need to eat a real food meal an hour after the fast digesting protein after your workout. The body needs whole food. you have your whole food meals nearly 6hrs apart. Need to throw a real meal in there an hour after you PWO Shake

Isn't 150GR Horse MEAT + 2 CUPS BROCCOLI considered a whole food meal? Cuzz, that's what I'm eating 1hr after my PWO shake!