Serious Knee Problems | Wraps?

[Warrior]

I am having serious knee problems on my right leg. It started out like a grinding noise when I walk up stairs - now it is to the point where I can hardly walk up stairs. I do not feel the pain doing cardio on a bike or walking on a treadmill, nor while working out Quads/Hams. But when I hit that certain angle outside the gym - shit hurts!

I have kept off elbow and shoulder pain pretty well - but this knee problem is getting to be quite crippling. I have already skipped a leg workout for fear it would get worse. I normall do higher reps for quadriceps - about 12-15. But even so, using over 1000lbs on the Leg Press is taking it's toll...

Is there a point where you have to wrap your knees? Does the muscle simply become so strong that the connective tissue can no longer support the load? I know that a common theory is not to wrap your knees so tendons and ligaments can adapt - but is there a cap to that theory? A point where you simply have to wrap?

I did start some EFA's and Glucosamine before resorting to anti-inflamatories.

Thonks!

[brad fuel]

grinding noise? Is it a possible Menicus tear?

[Warrior]

Originally posted by brad fuel
grinding noise? Is it a possible Menicus tear?

Grinding or perhaps another way to put it is a clicking noise - like I have gears in that knee... It wasn't really triggered by a single event from what I can tell - but more of a progressive problem. And there isn't really any swelling - both knees look identicle...

[brad fuel]

it could be a little piece of broken cartilage thats floating around in your knee joint. Every once in a while it'll get in the way and your knee will lock up and hurt like a bitch.
Go to the doctor and ask them to get an xray done. If it is this problem they can either leave it and eventually (long time) go away from getting broken down within the joint. Or they can do orthoscopic surgery and take it out.

[orto]

Don't skip workout for legs just reduce aggravation. Keep high reps. Where is pain located?

[silverfox]

Could be a number of things, but wraping may make it wrose not better, when you wrap, your knee caps pushes against the tendions, making the problem wrose. Just back off a bit, do some lighter work for few weeks, watch form very close and see what happens. I have similar problems and Doc told me was "jumpers knee" which is basicly over use thing, similar to tendonitis.

[Warrior]

Thanks gents - I can give higher reps a shot. Like 20-40 reps. But I just didn't want to continue to aggrevate the problem... I'll see if it gets worse - hopefully not.

How does working higher reps on it - help repair the damage or keep it from getting worse? Or are you just giving some general concern for detraining my quadriceps/hamstrings...

BTW - everytime I straighten that knee, it pops one time. As in seated in a chair doing a Leg Extension motion... crack... crack... crack... once everytime I extend it.

[xxxl83]

I'm with BF sounds like torn cartilage. I'd see a doctor get an x-ray, MRI, and get it taken care of. The sooner you take care of it the easier recovery will be. Trust me I've had 4 knee operations, I speak from experience.

Best of luck,
xxxl83

[BigGreen]

Warrior, i think xxxl83 has some of the better advice here...the knee is not an extremely well understood joint even by those paid to know their shit, and I've seen on more than a few occassions that one man's annoying click is another man's "no longer able to walk at 35". Growing to more or less my full height by the age of 11 or 12 (and i'm over six feet) knees were always an issue for me. Accordingly, I honestly didn't even start squatting until I was about 22...and even now i'm just starting to get into it...and I think it paid off; my knees would not stop cracking every step i took until i was about 20 and now I'm shocked at the fact i walk upstairs without the tell-tale cracking each step of the way...somethign I attribute to letting my knees "come into their own". I'm aware you're probably dealing with somethign quite different, but I think my little anecdote stresses the importance of being careful with this delicate joint.

Additionally, while I'm sure this wasn't the best reply, are your squats and leg presses full (knees to the pits on legpresses hams to calves on squats)? I've long maintained that not going full on either is actually the easiest way to invite leg (particularly knee) injuries...and I think studies ares starting to validate that.

[orto]

High reps are just for maintaining muscle strenght. Listen to xxxl83, he gave you good advice about MRI. Depending of your age could also be first degenerative changes.
I had torn meniscus and did't have problems like you. Anyway see your doctor before things get worser.

[chicamahomico]

Hey W chech out this link: http://www.physioroom.com/injuries/leg/index.shtml

They have good descriptions and rehab exercises.

[sd11]

IMO and since I have suffered a major injury I wouldn't gamble with it and I'd go see a doctor, especially if it's painful. Most times cracking in the knees is nothing at all, but when pain is invloved that's a different story. It could be a number of things:
1. torn meniscus...the noise would come from the fragment snapping in and out of place as the knee is bent and straightened
2. crepitus...noise occurs from kneecap cartilage rubbing against the underlying cartilage of the femur
In your case I would assume something might be wrong especially since you are only experiencing this in one knee and I would not be suprised if you had some sort of deterioration of cartilage in your knee.

[Warrior]

Do you guys think it could possible be a result of an inbalance between the Hamstring and the Quadriceps?

My rehab before resorting to anit inflamatories from a doc is to take the Glucosamine and Flax Oil. Prioritize Hamstrings over Quads. Working Hamstrings to raise limit strength. And see how I do.

I am thinking it may be an inblanace because I have put so much emphasis on isolating quads (close, forward stances) the last few months and not giving hams their due respect. And during this time I developed this pain... For Legs I will now do only high rep shoulder width stance Squats (to target Quads and Hams in balance) for now and then blast Hamstrings with a strength routine.

[orto]

Imbalance doesn't make pops!

[EXCESS]

Wow, what you're describing is sounds like what I've put up with for years. The only difference is that I experience quite a bit of swelling from lateral movement. Because of swelling I can't wear a wrap. I take ibuprofen for pain and swelling.

Check this out: www.sportsmedcenter.com/chondromalacia.htm

[Warrior]

Right on Excess... good information - sounds pretty much like what it is.

Everyone has been very helpfull...

[BIG TEXAN]

Well for starters have you been squatting heavier than normal or going heavier than normal on legs? I've been plagued with knee problems from a young age and when ever I go extremely heavy on legs for periods of time my knees start to bother me and when I bend 'em it sounds like an old creaky door. I do use wraps but only for my heavy sets on squats....I warm up with 2 sets, than do 315 for 12, 365 for 10, 405 for 8, than wrap and do 455 for 8, 475 for 6, 500 for 4-5.

[Warrior]

It's fixed! Listen to this...

It popped with a noticable different dull pain today doing light hack squats - and that was it! All clicking and pain from that point ended. I have full range of movement again after many weeks of pain. The pain slowly went down but today the clicking finally came to an end and I feel great again... something must have popped back into place... like a dislocated shoulder

[tolinka]

Originally posted by Warrior
It's fixed! Listen to this...

It popped with a noticable different dull pain today doing light hack squats - and that was it! All clicking and pain from that point ended. I have full range of movement again after many weeks of pain. The pain slowly went down but today the clicking finally came to an end and I feel great again... something must have popped back into place... like a dislocated shoulder

Hey bro im glad to here your knee gotten better, I cant imagine my knee hurting for two weeks and then poping back in to place, but anyhow, i would probably still go see a doctor, cause who knows what it was...just a lil exam to be sure..

[orto]

Sounds like your meniscus went to 0 position again.
Take care...

[Decoder]

Warrior if you insist on hack squat, or squats, i suggest going light , when you push be on the heel of your foot and lift your toes off the ground just a little, have your foot flat when going down, this well keep presure off the knee and have your hamstrings involved.

[jammergsxr]

I have a buddy at the gym who has what you describe,it comes and goes.What he does is when his knee is bothering him he'll do his cardio by running in place in the pool.He says it takes alot of pressure off his knee so he can use it more for his lifts.