This means war!
What are the long term health risks of an 'typical' AAS user? I'm talking about someone who may have done in the region of five cycles, carried out correct PCT and made a full recovery every time. This typical user might be 30something and be in good health.
I suppose im really asking about heart and other major organ functions, but in particular the heart.
This means war!
Anybody shed any light on this at all ?
Anabolic Member
If you recovered fully after 5 cycles I don't see a problem in longterm health. There's plenty of pro boby builders and old school body builders that have done probably done 30 cycles + and are still living healthy lives
New Member
A certain athlete used steroids for 23 years. He take regular breaks and even went off for 9+ years at one point. He just cycled for 2 years with essentially 4 week breaks every 8-10 weeks. He had been at it steady for 4+ years . He's off now for 4 months. He'll be 50 next month. Use has almost always been moderate. At 10 weeks from his last pin he went in for a physical and blood work. Test was well within normal range and all health markers were very good. In fact, he had negative risk for cardio vascular disease and diabetes. That means that it is not likely that I will ever have these two diseases.
Is he typical? not by a long shot. He eats clean 90% of the time and have been in shape since a boy. The only time he had not worked out at least 4 times a week were due to injury or on vacation. Bottom line is AAS use is a risk factor and that risk depends on the level of use or abuse. They do not negate the other positive and negative health factors in your life. If used correctly I think they add spice to life and can be used in a positive way to enhance health and well being but one has to take time away from them.
The average athlete, bodybuilder or otherwise, can build a very nice physique with good training, diet and rest. Use of a moderate amount of performance enhancers by the average or above average athlete moves his physique to the next level but leaves the basic physiology intact given proper use. Go beyond that type of use and risk factors have a higher propensity to damage health.
Most of the guys I know that used in the 80s and 90s are healthy and happy now with wife and kids. Some are not but I would say the ones that have problems had other bigger risk factors that were at least in part contributory. It is not unreasonable for an average guy at 5'9" and 180 lbs at 12% BF, a 300 lb bench, 400 lb dead and 350 lb squat to use moderately and move to 210 lbs bw at 10% BF, a 405 bench, 550 dead and 550 lb squat.
Last edited by Glycomann; 08-30-2011 at 07:28 AM.
Knowledgeable Member
studies have shown that higher testosterone leads to shorter lives, due to cardiac hypertrophy.
So in short, on gear ur heart can grow bigger than normal which leads to heart failure. from that you can deduce that AAS shortens your life, but to what degree depends on the person
Productive Member
Originally Posted by Lemonada8
It doesn't help that actual resistance training in general for even the natural athlete induces cardiac hypertrophy so essentially we are contributing to our own cardiac hypertrophy of the heart both directly with the testosterone. And indirectly due to the excess androgen's which allow us to hold onto more muscle then we would naturally have, followed by us force our body's to lift more then we would have even been able to handle naturally. God damn that heart sure takes a pounding!
Conclusion: Resistance training induces the development of concentric cardiac hypertrophy without ventricular dysfunction or cavity reduction. Although diastolic function was not completely investigated, we cannot exclude the possibility that resistance training results in diastolic dysfunction.
Junior Member
They have absolutely no idea if aas cause heart enlargement or if its the sheer act if lifting weights heavy. Not all aas users experience this. Its the pros usually.
Junior Member
Also you said "higher test levels" Cause this? That's a very vague statement and unfounded
Knowledgeable Member
it is a vague statement but there is a trend. blacks have higher testosterone than whites, and yet they have the lowest life span as a whole. I never said all AAS users experience it, but since test helps muscles grow it also helps the heart grow. And it is been shown in statistics of a whole group.
The causes of premature death among the powerlifters were suicide (3), acute myocardial infarction (3), hepatic coma (1) and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (1). These findings add to the growing amount of evidence of an association between anabolic steroid abuse and premature death, and support the view that measures to decrease AAS misuse among both competitive and amateur athletes are justified. *-Increased Premature Mortality of Competitive Powerlifters Suspected to Have Used Anabolic Agents*
*Serum testosterone levels in healthy young black and white men.* - Mean testosterone levels in blacks were 19% higher than in whites, and free testosterone levels were 21% higher. Both these differences were statistically significant
*The sex-specific life expectancy and the influence of testosterone in a mathematical aging simulation model and its consequences* - It seems, even from the view of a mathematical–statistical simulation, that males are discriminated against regarding mortality and life expectancy
There have been many studies concerning this. And since a AAS cycle is having more testosterone in the body can lead to this.
So no, it isnt unfounded.
the bolds are the titles of the articles.
Last edited by Lemonada8; 08-31-2011 at 11:27 AM.
Junior Member
It is unfounded. Nowhere does it say there definitely is a direct link. These are suggestive studied. I've seen studied saying that blacked are more likely to deity of cardiovascular disease because of diet alone. People eating like shit. Hispanic males have larger test levels as I well but blacks still have the higher incident rate. All these theories of heart enlargement and steroids are not DIRECTLY linked. As someone else said, too many factors, including heavy constant lifting. I know plenty of people who use, not abuse that have no heart enlargement. Some for many years. High cholesterol and other side effects are proven, not heart enlargement. I only do one a year cycles so im by no means neive about the dangers. My point is that you can use steroids while using your head and you'll most likely be just fine.
I could search the internet as good as you and find suggestive studied aiming the opposite way.
Productive Member
► 1 year follow-up study in androgenic anabolic steroids abusers.
► Compromised hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal axis in all volunteers.
► Main urinary nandrolone metabolite is detected up to 12 months after abuse cessation.
► HDL increased and LDL decreased observed until 6 month after abuse cessation.
► Long term consequences might be expected.
Senior Member
I believe its all based on state of health while cycling, diet, genetics, compounds/dosages, post cycle therapy regimines, etc... There are too many factors in the equation to ask such a general question. As long as genetics dont dominate the equation, most steroid users will be fine. Thats assuming that the user doesnt abuse them.
Productive Member
Any thing we introduce to the body, that it considers an invader, can cause your body to react in a negative manner, which includes death. There is a risk to all we do but most things when done correctly will have more benefits to us. Even the use steriods..
Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
Serious pet peeve - When people cut and paste snippets from studies and dont cite references. If someone is intelligent enought to interpret and extrapolate data then surely they are intelligent enough to know how to cite apporpriate refrences for said studies. Its pretty lame imo when poeple use snippets of this study and that study to support their contention without the integrity to afford the readers full access to the data so they can read it and come to their own interpretation. Even if their contention is correct. If your going to use portions of studies or articles to support your contention have SOME regard for scientific method and cite appropriate reference. Christ the shit im reading ITT could be from an article in people magazine or from Dr idbydibby from the university of the sahara in some village in africa (not saying it is by any means but who the hell knows).
Perfect example - If my contention was regarding testosterone and prostate cancer i could post snips of dozens of studies showing elevated testosterone is responsible for prostate cancer - however upon further review of said studies one would note the corresponding increase in estrogen - which has now been shown to play much more of a role in prostate cancer than testosterone ever did.
End rant....
Last edited by jimmyinkedup; 08-30-2011 at 10:49 PM.
Productive Member
Who was this directed at?
Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
You
You regularly cut and paste portions of studies without citing refernece. You regularly cut and paste posts other people have made regarding contentions without acknowledging it was a statmeent made by them. Often it seems you try to make it appear the contentions and even the posts were originated by you. If you waqnt to appear you have experienced based information to share - simply share your experience - not cut and paste others making it appear its your own. You clearly did this in a thread re GH and distennded abdomen where i called you out on it. Also if you cite sentences from scientific articles or snippets of studies to support your contentions - have the integrity to post appropraite references- something you never do. Hell ive seen you damn near post full studies and not cite reference.
Its one thing to post opinion - but if your going to post as you do - do it with some integrity IMO....
Productive Member
First off nothing compares to real world experience, something we both agree on!
If I have posted someone else's work or posted information without referencing usernames or asking for permission then I apologize if they were offended, it gets a bit of a pain in the ass to reference every single post when something is generally regarded as factual science.
Every post I made in this thread are abstracts taken from studies, I could understand if people were getting offended if I was trying to pass off stuff I pulled out of my ass as science.
In relation to the response on the GH gut repost, it was the closest I have come to fully understanding the situation. Fact is we will never have and solid proof until they do a long term study on drug abusing bodybuilders. The science that is currently available shows truth on the paper in relation to what appears to be happening. I posted it up not to pass it off as my own work but to start a discussion on the matter.
I don't go out of my way to start WWIII every time I post here
But you entitled to your opinion and I regard it as constructive criticism and will take it on board
Junior Member
I agree. I can kill myself on Tylenol if I take too much.
Knowledgeable Member
^^ sry i put the titles within the stars but shoulda said something.
Knowledgeable Member
wait about 20 more years and we will have a better understanding of long term effect
Banned
Wow a bit of a battle lol
In alot of respects there are too many contradicting factors in regards to steroids for me to make an informed decision.
Use don't abuse and live healthy
Knowledgeable Member
i believe it comes down to use and abuse and whether or not you are monitored by a doctor and evaluate blood levels. E2, RBC, PSA levels..... I have read a study that i will try to find that followed users on test 400mgs weekly with really no major side effects other then acne, nipple sensitivity, and other small symptoms that are common with use.
This means war!
Cardiac hypertrophy, that's what I'm talking about. So there's no proof or evidence one way or the other ?
Good discussion.
Junior Member
Yeah pretty much.
Associate Member
Pkv..don't take this as I'm busting your balls too much, but this is a good heads up for all members. Putting something up that isn't your own and not giving credit to the deserving would basically be plageurizing. Whether it's a study or an opinion by someone else that u put down word for word. I understand it can be tedious giving credit to things u state. If it's your opinion...then cool. If it's not, well I think u get my point. I wouldn't like u taking my shit and passing it off as your own and I'm sure u wouldn't like me taking yours.......out.
'everything louder than everything else'
theres just too many variables. what lifestyle is led alongside the steroid use, the amount of steroids and type used and duration on cycle amounts, any underlying conditions etc
AR-Hall of Famer
Your general state of health (things that can be monitored and controlled), genetics, and lifestyle will have far more impact than moderate AAS use itself.
American Psycho
bro this is what YOU need to do. You need to research the short and long term side effects of using gear. just like anything else in life there is consequences for you actions good or bad. You need to weigh them out in your head and decide if getting bigger, more ripped and stronger is worth it and of the potential side effects and or health problems you may have at the time or down the road. If you are mature enough to use gear you should be mature enough to figure that one out by yourself. You should not listen to anyone on the internet when it comes to a decision like this ultimately it is yours to make. I decided recently I am going to be a lifer on test. Do i know the potential side effects yes, I just got blood work done after being on for 4 months and everything looks great. doing shit like that to monitor your body, taking the correct supps on and off cycle or blast and cruise, and not using recs and just maintaining a healthy lifestyle can go a long way.
good luck bro.
American Psycho
ha sorry if i came out of left field on 200mcg of helios at the moment ****en cranking in here ha.
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