Poss low e2.. Getn labwork dun

[--->>405<<---]

hey guys.. well surprise surprise i think i may be having some low E2 symptoms.. as yall know my E2 climbed to 63 and doc put me on 3mg adex per week.. well as suggested here i droppd it down to 1.5mg per week and for a week or 2 i even went as low as .75mg per week..

current protocol: 160mg test split every 3.5 days
1.5mg adex per week
250iu hcg 2x per week

lately ive been feeln tired at the end of the day and when i wake up.. that feeling like im an old man where i wake up achy and tired.. even rite now at 1320 i feel achy and tired.. also and i think more symptomatic is my libido has droppd.. even when i have sex i feel like i could take it or leave it and it takes alot longer to finish than it should and with alot less enthusiasm.. also poor erection quality..

all this caused me to request labwork dun.. i requested complete bloodwork.. askd to be tested for everything they test for cuz up until now i have only had BW 1 time and it was only for free test and e2 and psa and freet3 and freet4.. no lipid profile or anything else.. gonna get it dun thursday..

i almost feel like i have low test symptoms again..

[kelkel]

405 didn't we discuss this in another thread? All the sides you spoke of are indicators of low E. I'm guessing based on your protocol and sides you described your in single digits (5ish my guess.) I'd be stopping the AI or at least backing off to a bare minimum. Get some nolva on hand to prepare for your results in case you have to totally come off. Nolva will allow your E to rise without breast receptor issues and then continue to monitor with BW. When you see your doc and if you end up low, have him write you a couple extra E2 sensitive assay scripts so you can check progress periodically.

[--->>405<<---]

405 didn't we discuss this in another thread? All the sides you spoke of are indicators of low E. I'm guessing based on your protocol and sides you described your in single digits (5ish my guess.) I'd be stopping the AI or at least backing off to a bare minimum. Get some nolva on hand to prepare for your results in case you have to totally come off. Nolva will allow your E to rise without breast receptor issues and then continue to monitor with BW. When you see your doc and if you end up low, have him write you a couple extra E2 sensitive assay scripts so you can check progress periodically.

yeh kel we did discussed my adex protocol and it was anticipated that my e2 could bottom out.. i havent taken any since friday and dont plan on taking any.. would u mind explaining briefly about this "sensitive assay"?? i mentioned it to my doc and he acted like he didnt know what it was.. is e2 that low anything i should be worried about between now and bloodwork results other than feeln like crap? thx

also is the nolva something my doc can and will prescribe?

[steroid.com 1]

By injecting every 3.5 you are adding to the management of your E2...less spikes.

1.5 mg AI on 160 mg of Test is a lot in my opinion especially with your injection protocol.

I just reduced from 1 mg to .5 on 120 mg of Test and see no difference whatsoever expect better morning erections and increased libido. I don't have new BW yet but I know symptoms and there are none present so I am pretty certain the .5 mg is doing it's job.

AI's are very powerful in men 405 as you know.

[kelkel]

E2 sensitive assay is the proper test needed for men. If you use labcorp I can pm you the codes or you can get it off their website. Nolva is a SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator) and can help you if you now have a spike in E. It acts by blocking the receptor sites in the breast area while still allowing your E to rise.

[--->>405<<---]

Cool i do have labcorps and thx man

[zaggahamma]

best of luck turning it back around bro...please update here with the new bloodwork

[--->>405<<---]

best of luck turning it back around bro...please update here with the new bloodwork

U know i will jpkman.. It seems yall know more about TRT than my doc! Which IMO IS sad... Im def thankful for yall and No offense to u guys but hes a freaking doctor and should know his business... Im trying to locate general philosophies and practices of crisler so i can compile it and give it to him.. Not havn alot of luck...

[JD250]

PM me an email address and I'll send you an 18 page word document from Crisler that covers his thoughts on just about everything. I have no idea where I downloaded it from, somewhere on allthings male but I can't figure it out, I jave it saved on my computer and it's yours if you want it. I printed it out for a friend 2 weeks ago and he learned enough from it that his Doc commented on how much he knew about TRT.

[bullshark99]

405, I would bet my house you crashed your E2, just as I did a good month ago, Went from 48 all the way down to 5.7, same symptoms Bro (maybe even worse) never realized how strong the Anas IS! Some of the members that already chimed in helped set me staight, listen to them.

[--->>405<<---]

well i had blood taken this am.. complete panel.. now i didnt fast.. dont know if that matters.. it was like pulling teeth to get sensitive estradiol test dun.. the lab wouldnt do it without order from doc.. docs assistant didnt wanna give the order cuz she hadnt talkd to the doc.. i told her he acted like he didnt know what the sensitive test was.. i need to read up on it so i have reason to back why i wanted it.. she eventually ordered both the reg e2 and the sensitive..

if anyone has any links to estrogen sensitive and why i need it id appreciate them

[zaggahamma]

i was under the impression if you get estradiol(which is e2) tested that is either within the sensitive assay or at least the one you need

[TED66]

i feel ya 405 your having alot of problems figuring stuff out as am I, im doing without a DOC and with help from a few good men on here. best of luck man. kinda seems like your by yourself even with a DOC.

[--->>405<<---]

thx ted.. if it gets too bad ill just take a trip to michigan i suppose never been there anyways..

[JD250]

did you get the Crisler stuff I sent you?

[jamotech]

if anyone has any links to estrogen sensitive and why i need it id appreciate them

I believe estradiol(e2) sensitive test is used because the anticipated results will be low. Whats high for men is low for women and the test is the same for male and female.

[--->>405<<---]

did you get the Crisler stuff I sent you?

i did and i appreciate it greatly thx man!! this is gonna be interesting dealing with the doc about.. IMO hes not totally up to speed considering ive had to request e2 test both times i got bloodwork as well as the fact that his solution to high e2 was 3mg adex/week.. wondering wats gonna happen with bringing my e2 back up without worrying about gyno???? not sure i completely understood wat kel was saying..

kel?? can i develop gyno symptoms before my e2 gets back to a healthy range like say 24???? if yes then i need a serm to allow it to get back up and if "no" then cant i just adjust adex dosage down to prevent elevated e2??

[kelkel]

Yes it's possible. That's why we run AI's to avoid spikes from injections and to maintain consistent levels. Many people get symptoms when they're rebounding from their cycles without proper pct as their body then over-compensates trying to normalize. I highly recommend a serm for a period of time then re-test your E. Better safe than sorry IMO.

[--->>405<<---]

okay so what do i have to do ask my doc for a script?

1.what would the dosage i need to take it be?

2. how long should i take it?

3. what if my e2 isnt horribly low and i get back on at a reduced dosage?

today is 6days ive been off adex.. dont know if my doc is gonna know all this .. HE SHOULD... but i dont know if he will...

[kelkel]

okay so what do i have to do ask my doc for a script?

Yes. With a refill if possible

1.what would the dosage i need to take it be?

20mg per day will work fine

2. how long should i take it?

I'd take it for the next month until your BW

3. what if my e2 isnt horribly low and i get back on at a reduced dosage?

That works too. We're all waiting to hear your results and hoping for the best!

today is 6days ive been off adex.. dont know if my doc is gonna know all this .. HE SHOULD... but i dont know if he will...

In bold above...

[--->>405<<---]

Ok kel thx for the input man! I appreciate it... Im thinking we dont completely understand each other.. Maybe i didnt present all the info properly..

I took my last dose of adex last friday (6days ago).. Had blood drawn yesterday.. Should get results back today of tomorrow.. With that being said u still think i need nolva? Do i have time to wait and see how bloodwork comes back before i start worrying about preventing gyno?

If i dont get bloodwork back tomorrow and it turns into next week could i take say 1/4mg adex to get me thru weekend? Id like to add ive startd noticing women again today.. Could that be a sign its going back up LOL?

[kelkel]

You'll be fine until BW is back then make a decision based on what you've learned.
Yes you could take the small amount of adex.
Women-good-yes. Lets hope they notice back!

[--->>405<<---]

LOL! i think they r noticing again thx for all ur help and u guys will def be hearing from me the moment i get BW back thx..

[JD250]

right on bro, keep us updated.

[--->>405<<---]

well got my labs back.. gonna request emailed copy of all of it but have some numbers i wrote down in the meantime..

free test:31.5 (8.7-25.1)

E2: 43.7 this one surprised me.. and it is based on pretty much 1.5mg/week .. keep in mind it had been 5days since i took any when i had blood drawn.. doc suggested i go to 3mg/week ..

protocol prior to labwork:
80mg test every 3.5days
250iu hcg 2x/week
adex 1.5mg/week

new protocol:
80mg test every 3.5days
500iu hcg 2x/week
adex 3mg/week

thoughts?

[zaggahamma]

thoughts? yeh...doc advice is too much arimidex

just my .02

actually 2.00

[--->>405<<---]

yeh i know but if u remember a few weeks ago i was advised to drop from 3mg down to 1.5mg (which i did) and my E2 is still 43.7...???

while 3mg/week may be too much apparently 1.5mg is not enuff.. maybe i should try 2mg or 2.5mg .. remember it was 63 six weeks ago... so 1.5 only dropped it 16 points.. and for the first 2 weeks i took 3mg...

[zaggahamma]

yes i see your point

but your yesterdays post menitoned libido coming back? so just dont want you to go past your sweet spot.....

bump it for you for others

gl bro

[--->>405<<---]

yeh its not completely back yet.. i had sex last nite but i only kinda wanted to out of dang principle! LOL..

[flatscat]

Wow that is hard to believe since you are on the famous twice a week protocol to minimize e2 conversion. Oh wait, maybe it has to be sub q...

Just teasing gd, not you bro.

I would not worry too much about it in the low 40's. That may have been a high value for you and you may be in the thirties most of the time. I would continue the 1.5/week and see where you come in next time.

You are obviously fit with no excess bf to speak of. And healthy otherwise correct?

[bass]

well got my labs back.. gonna request emailed copy of all of it but have some numbers i wrote down in the meantime..

free test:31.5 (8.7-25.1)

E2: 43.7 this one surprised me.. and it is based on pretty much 1.5mg/week .. keep in mind it had been 5days since i took any when i had blood drawn.. doc suggested i go to 3mg/week ..

protocol prior to labwork:
80mg test every 3.5days
250iu hcg 2x/week
adex 1.5mg/week

new protocol:
80mg test every 3.5days
500iu hcg 2x/week
adex 3mg/week

thoughts?

3mgs is way too much in my opinion, try the 2mgs per week, or lower your test dose. that may get you down to 30-35 which is a good place to be. the reason youre converting allot is because you free T is off the chart, by lowering your dose you will convert less and save money!

[--->>405<<---]

Wow that is hard to believe since you are on the famous twice a week protocol to minimize e2 conversion. Oh wait, maybe it has to be sub q...

Just teasing gd, not you bro.

I would not worry too much about it in the low 40's. That may have been a high value for you and you may be in the thirties most of the time. I would continue the 1.5/week and see where you come in next time.

You are obviously fit with no excess bf to speak of. And healthy otherwise correct?

yeh im thinking about switching to sub q at some point.. my doc told me i could do either.. i only use 5/8" 25g into quad now so its really no big deal at all! but figd it mite give the old legs a break and give me more injection sites..

yes otherwise healthy.. he said my thyroid is low and wants me to try armour again at half the dose i was on the first time.. i suppose ill give it a shot.. no pretty lean (finally, YES!)

was thinking maybe do 2mg and see in 6 weeks.. in part cuz he seemd to be correct that 1.5 wasnt enuff .. my baseline e2 was 24.1.. im thinking 1mg 12-24hrs after each inject..prob 24??

bass: lower my test dose.. man i dont like the sound of that LOL!! yeh i know more isnt better but doc said i was ok at free:31 and the hcg increase as well as the increase in adex may raise it even further..

basically im thinking:
80mg every 3.5days
500iu hcg 2x/week
1mg adex 24hrs after each test shot

6 weeks will tell the tale and we can re-evaluate

[bass]

i think thats a better protocol. aways start low and increase from there.

[--->>405<<---]

i think thats a better protocol. aways start low and increase from there.

yeh i fig if im at 43.7 on 1.5 then 2 oughtta do nothing but help the situation.. the question will be how much

thx for the help..again... guys

ill be back!