Sustanon injection frequency

[D7M]

Lately, I've been seeing several members (particularly some newer members), who, in their enthusiasm for the board have been going around shouting at people that it is a absolute necessity to inject sustanon EOD. Their reasoning, while seemingly logical, but largely parroted, is that sust must be injected more frequently to "take advantage" of the short ester it contains, namely, prop.

Hopefully this thread will serve as a corrective to that mistaken notion.

First, let's remember that sust was originally designed (yes, designed, ie, created for a specific purpose) for HRT/TRT patients, where the propionate ester in sust would provides a quick burst, while the long and medium esters release throughout the week.

Next, a quick glance at the chemical composition of sust:

30 mg prop, 60 mg isocaproate, 60 mg phenylpropionate, and 100 mg decanoate. The total of which is 250mg.

Now, as we already know, release rate of the ester is determined by its weight (ie, the number of carbons in the ester). In the case of sust this is:

prop: 3, iso: 6, phenyl:9, and deca: 10.

So, the decanote ester is a pretty heavy ester and it makes up 100mg of sust with phenyl and iso close behind, which tells us, if it's not already clear, that injecting twice a week is quite satisfactory for sust.

If someone still isn't convinced, and wants to further press the issue by arguing again that the prop ester won't be "fully utilized" or it will be "wasted", I would refer them again to the structure of sust. Since the prop and phenyprop ester release in sust not separately, but concomitantly, their release for the first four days is strikingly similar to a sinlge ester test (again, making twice a week injection ideal for BB purposes!). And again, this is precisely why sust was originally designed the way it is.

The conclusion is that the argument for shooting sust EOD or ED because of the prop ester is actually just incorrect. Sust was designed to be injected once a week, twice a week is quite fitting for a BB, but EOD is simply a preference.

Be safe and happy growing:

[shennen]

Cool, thanks man. I'm thinkin about switching my last four weeks to eod from twice weekly. Recently read that it may reduce some sides like acne. Realize its probably dependant on the person but I was wondering if its a bad idea to switch injection methods later in a cycle?

[D7M]

Cool, thanks man. I'm thinkin about switching my last four weeks to eod from twice weekly. Recently read that it may reduce some sides like acne. Realize its probably dependant on the person but I was wondering if its a bad idea to switch injection methods later in a cycle?

You're right...it is very dependent on the person.

Is acne your motivation for wanting to switch injection schedules this late in your cycle?

[shennen]

Yes, my back really exploded these last two weeks

[FireGuy]

Quality post as usual.

[gymnerd]

Thank you!!! Dumbest shit I see parroted out of all of them. Thats what I been saying all along although you said it much better.

The body cant tell prop from enanth test is test so it all goes into the ]overall levels and NOT wasted,.

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

I, being one of the advocates for eod sus pinning, have clearly stated that just cuz I recommend eod for best results does not mean 2x a week will not yield results. Most of what we say here is based off of our OWN experiences and everyone should figure out what works best for them by trying each method out.

I felt the need to say this as I am sure this post was aimed at myself and others who are pro-eod pinning.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=446160

[D7M]

I, being one of the advocates for eod sus pinning, have clearly stated that just cuz I recommend eod for best results does not mean 2x a week will not yield results. Most of what we say here is based off of our OWN experiences and everyone should figure out what works best for them by trying each method out.

I felt the need to say this as I am sure this post was aimed at myself and others who are pro-eod pinning.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=446160

^It's all good, brother. I whole-heartedly agree that self-experimentation and finding out what works best for each individual is the best way to go. This thread wasn't aimed at you or anyone else. It's just a more scientific account of the issue.

Sust has prop in it, not a lot but it is in there. For that reason you "should" pin eod to get the benefit of all the esters in there. However, if you pin 2x a week you will still see results but it would be best eod.

^This is your quote from the thread you posted above, and this is exactly what this thread is about: you will still get the full benefit of the prop ester pinning twice a week.

If it's your preference to shoot, EOD, fine, good. But let's not make it sound like you will loose out on prop by shooting twice a week

[letstrain]

Hi, i am doing a sus cycle at the moment, and the first 4 weeks monday and thursday, and in the last 2 weeks every 2nd day, are you saying its not needed or just dosent have to be, (eod), do you think gains would be a big difference 2 times a week compared to eod, any help would be great, Thanks

[D7M]

Hi, i am doing a sus cycle at the moment, and the first 4 weeks monday and thursday, and in the last 2 weeks every 2nd day, are you saying its not needed or just dosent have to be, (eod),

^The latter.

do you think gains would be a big difference 2 times a week compared to eod, any help would be great, Thanks

I personally don't think it will make a huge difference, but try it both ways for yourself and find out

[gym_junki]

Lately, I've been seeing several members (particularly some newer members), who, in their enthusiasm for the board have been going around shouting at people that it is a absolute necessity to inject sustanon EOD. Their reasoning, while seemingly logical, but largely parroted, is that sust must be injected more frequently to "take advantage" of the short ester it contains, namely, prop.

Hopefully this thread will serve as a corrective to that mistaken notion.

First, let's remember that sust was originally designed (yes, designed, ie, created for a specific purpose) for HRT/TRT patients, where the propionate ester in sust would provides a quick burst, while the long and medium esters release throughout the week.

Next, a quick glance at the chemical composition of sust:

30 mg prop, 60 mg isocaproate, 60 mg phenylpropionate, and 100 mg decanoate. The total of which is 250mg.

Now, as we already know, release rate of the ester is determined by its weight (ie, the number of carbons in the ester). In the case of sust this is:

prop: 3, iso: 6, phenyl:9, and deca: 10.

So, the decanote ester is a pretty heavy ester and it makes up 100mg of sust with phenyl and iso close behind, which tells us, if it's not already clear, that injecting twice a week is quite satisfactory for sust.

If someone still isn't convinced, and wants to further press the issue by arguing again that the prop ester won't be "fully utilized" or it will be "wasted", I would refer them again to the structure of sust. Since the prop and phenyprop ester release in sust not separately, but concomitantly, their release for the first four days is strikingly similar to a sinlge ester test (again, making twice a week injection ideal for BB purposes!). And again, this is precisely why sust was originally designed the way it is.

The conclusion is that the argument for shooting sust EOD or ED because of the prop ester is actually just incorrect. Sust was designed to be injected once a week, twice a week is quite fitting for a BB, but EOD is simply a preference.

Be safe and happy growing:

good post also id like to add this if u dont mind. there are a few people that say take half a ml out of the amp and inject half eod half being 125mg of test which is wrong in that half a ml your not going to get 50% of each ester 15mg prop 50mg deca and so on, u cant do that with sus u might have all 100mg of deca in that half a ml and no deca in the other half in the amp. if people want to open a 1ml amp and use half for what ever reason it should be a single ester like prop enanthate and so on.

[D7M]

good post also id like to add this if u dont mind. there are a few people that say take half a ml out of the amp and inject half eod half being 125mg of test which is wrong in that half a ml your not going to get 50% of each ester 15mg prop 50mg deca and so on, u cant do that with sus u might have all 100mg of deca in that half a ml and no deca in the other half in the amp. if people want to open a 1ml amp and use half for what ever reason it should be a single ester like prop enanthate and so on.

I don't think so, my friend. I think you should do some reading in the lab forum for a while.

[gym_junki]

I don't think so, my friend. I think you should do some reading in the lab forum for a while.

lmao na mate im 100percent its basic chem. my father is a doc and brother is a bio-chem do ur reserch

[Vitruvian-Man]

good post also id like to add this if u dont mind. there are a few people that say take half a ml out of the amp and inject half eod half being 125mg of test which is wrong in that half a ml your not going to get 50% of each ester 15mg prop 50mg deca and so on, u cant do that with sus u might have all 100mg of deca in that half a ml and no deca in the other half in the amp. if people want to open a 1ml amp and use half for what ever reason it should be a single ester like prop enanthate and so on.

This is a trippy post.

But yeah, you couldn't possibly be more wrong.

Sorrry....

The hormone will be evenly dissolved throughout the suspended solution. So if you draw 1/2 the exact same other half will be there.

(IE) if deca = 200mg/mL and I draw 0.5mL the only 0.5mL would STILL contain 100mg/mL. This is fact.

Same goes for Sustanon. Each ester will disperse itself evenly throughout the solution. You should tell your dad to review his basic chemistry.

-VM

[gym_junki]

thats right ur talking about deca a single ester but thats not how it works with sus

[Vitruvian-Man]

good post also id like to add this if u dont mind. there are a few people that say take half a ml out of the amp and inject half eod half being 125mg of test which is wrong in that half a ml your not going to get 50% of each ester 15mg prop 50mg deca and so on, u cant do that with sus u might have all 100mg of deca in that half a ml and no deca in the other half in the amp. if people want to open a 1ml amp and use half for what ever reason it should be a single ester like prop enanthate and so on.

^^ And for anyone reading this post thinking: "WTF where the f*ck did the deca he's talking about come from"..... well he is confused, and meant to write "deconate" which is the longest ester in Sustanon.

Just thought I should explain, seeing as it took me a couple of minutes to piece the paragraph together.

lmao na mate im 100percent its basic chem. my father is a doc and brother is a bio-chem do ur reserch

...... GET ON IT D7M!!!!

YOU HEARD THE MAN!!!

thats right ur talking about deca a single ester but thats not how it works with sus

Well if you look at your post you actually wrote "deca" repeatedly throughout. But you were mistaken, now I understand.

And no - you're still wrong. The same principal will STILL always apply with liquid orals, or anything suspended. It will disperse in a predictable and even rate throughout the entire volume.

^^ If you want to come find out "why" this occurs, take D7M's first bit of advice, and head over to the lab section.

-VM

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

Uhm, he mentioned deca `cuz you brought it up in your 1st post. That still does not take away from the FACT that when you have a solution all elements in said solution are dispersed evenly, it's called solution equilibrium.

[Vitruvian-Man]

Disregard! totally my bad.

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

^^ You clearly haven't bothered to read the first 10 posts in this thread.

I was not the person who bought up deca. Thanks for the uhhmmm... clarification though.

Your second sentence is correct though - welcome to grade 5 chemistry people!!! haha.

-VM

VM - You are tripping out.. My post was in response to gym_junkie's..

[gym_junki]

comeon guys r u serious lol mate trust me im not wrong i thought the same thing i wanted to do it at one stage but when i asked my bro i didnt belive him than i went to my father and 3 more people in the field they all said the same thing.

[Vitruvian-Man]

VM - You are tripping out.. My post was in response to gym_junkie's..

!!!! sh*T!!! when I was writing that post I was thinking "is he talking to me or not" HAHA!!

sorry it's soooo hard to figure out what people are saying without the "quotes" or saying who they are quoting. haha.

MY BAD!!! apologies all around Fuzzy-peaches.

comeon guys r u serious lol mate trust me im not wrong i thought the same thing i wanted to do it at one stage but when i asked my bro i didnt belive him than i went to my father and 3 more people in the field they all said the same thing.

Noooo bro.... you're definitely wrong. lol. I'm really serious.

Suspending a hormone in solution will allow for MORE accurate dosing then even capped pills.

-VM

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

No worries, your post came thru right before mine so I can see how it was confusing. I had planned on it being directly below his..

[Swifto]

Been saying this for years.

Excellent post mate.

[gym_junki]

!!!! sh*T!!! when I was writing that post I was thinking "is he talking to me or not" HAHA!!

sorry it's soooo hard to figure out what people are saying without the "quotes" or saying who they are quoting. haha.

MY BAD!!! apologies all around Fuzzy-peaches.



Noooo bro.... you're definitely wrong. lol. I'm really serious.

Suspending a hormone in solution will allow for MORE accurate dosing then even capped pills.

-VM

no prob bro im not going to say ur wrong or im wrong for now i gota loook into it.

[D7M]

wow. I step out for a second and this happens.

Thanks for stepping up VM.

And Gym Junki, I'm sorry to tell you that your brother and your Dad are dead wrong.

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

Gym - There is absolutely no shame in being wrong. I respect that you are willing to look it up for verification but when you make a solution all elements are suspended evenly. Think about it like this: Based on what you said about the 1ml and not all esters could be in the top half of the ml, then when you have a 10ml vial who is to say that when you draw 1 ml you will have all the esters in it?

I can follow your logic and I can understand why you would think this but in the end it would not be a solution if they were not suspended evenly throughout.

[gym_junki]

Gym - There is absolutely no shame in being wrong. I respect that you are willing to look it up for verification but when you make a solution all elements are suspended evenly. Think about it like this: Based on what you said about the 1ml and not all esters could be in the top half of the ml, then when you have a 10ml vial who is to say that when you draw 1 ml you will have all the esters in it?

I can follow your logic and I can understand why you would think this but in the end it would not be a solution if they were not suspended evenly throughout.

i understand where ur coming from mate thats how i think of it but when i heard what was said to me i was like i cant kno any better an left it at that iam glad i acctually wrote it.

[Bonaparte]

lmao na mate im 100percent its basic chem. my father is a doc and brother is a bio-chem do ur reserch

Either you misinterpreted their words, or your father and brother both need to brush up on their chemistry.
A solution is, by definition, a homogeneous mixture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solution

The molecules will evenly disperse because that is the only way they can stay in solution. If they clumped up or settled, the hormone would crash. It's similar to heat conduction, where heat will try to go from high to low in order to balance out.

[gym_junki]

wow. I step out for a second and this happens.

Thanks for stepping up VM.

And Gym Junki, I'm sorry to tell you that your brother and your Dad are dead wrong.

na mate dont be lol i dont kno why the f***k they would say that.
glad i kno though thanks

[gym_junki]

yeh i prob misinterpreted the sentance now that i think about it i asked 4 docs and someone that mixes compounds like that so prob my fault. sorry d7m,vm,fuzzy.

[D7M]

Good.

Now that that is cleared up, we can get back to people shamelessly bumping my thread.

Carry on...

[scorpion62]

Great bit of info D7M I have been waiting to do this Bump

[Matt]

Great post.....

[D7M]

Shameless bump, since this been coming up recently.

[Bertuzzi]

Glad you bumped this.... I missed it the first time around.... I don't really have a desire to run sust but I have read the Compound profile and it seemed to me like 2 a week would be fine but I have been reading a lot of guys saying EOD..... I never argue or even discuss because I never knew for sure.... nor did I care.

I am officially late for work now that I read this thread.... at least i more edddddddduuuuuuummmmmmmaaaaakkkkkkkaaaaattttteeedd ddddd

Great Post D!!

[Srobis15]

Love the post. I am currently on my second sus cycle. My first one I tried both ways, EOD and twice a week. It seems the bigger injections of twice a week worked better for me than the smaller, EOD injections. I guess its all preference and body type. Currently using the twice a week method again and really can feel it working much better.

[willie2]

good post also id like to add this if u dont mind. there are a few people that say take half a ml out of the amp and inject half eod half being 125mg of test which is wrong in that half a ml your not going to get 50% of each ester 15mg prop 50mg deca and so on, u cant do that with sus u might have all 100mg of deca in that half a ml and no deca in the other half in the amp. if people want to open a 1ml amp and use half for what ever reason it should be a single ester like prop enanthate and so on.

I agree wit D7M...u need to do some research on that statement...sust is a "blended" mix so u should be getting equal amounts per/ml of each ester...

[MR10X]

Love the post. I am currently on my second sus cycle. My first one I tried both ways, EOD and twice a week. It seems the bigger injections of twice a week worked better for me than the smaller, EOD injections. I guess its all preference and body type. Currently using the twice a week method again and really can feel it working much better.

Dont you think doing sustanon EOD will work better as you say because your getting a higher level of test because your using more,if you increased the dose of the every third day method to get the same dosage it would work as you say better also. I did my first sustanon cycle and did 500mg the first shot and then 250 every third day as got extremely good results with this dosing.How were you dosing the EOD vs the twice a week dose.

[dec11]

errrmm guys, old thread, i dont think quoting ppl on it will bring answer from em.

now for my exp, ive done sust ED,EOD and x2 pw and guess what? no difference, not a sausage.

[Bowtye8]

Can someone help me understand.
If one CC is 30 mg prop, 60 mg isocaproate, 60 mg phenylpropionate, and 100 mg decanoate. The total of which is 250mg.
When you split it up 2x week. Do you pin .5cc ??? so about 125mg of sus ?
Some of the folks pinning eod..how much are you pinning?

I am working with Anropen 275 a similiar blend of Sus. Pinning 2x week. I just upped from .5cc to .75cc 2x week.
Thanks