Need assistance with diet/training

[redrum86]

Hey guys,

I really need some help. I am confused and beyond frustrated. I have been fat my whole life and finally trying to change my life around but there are so many confusing aspects of fat loss and muscle gain.

First off just some quick stats:

28 male
6'2
243lbs
23%bf? (will post pic)

I am on week 15 of starting strength. I have never worked out in my life before this. I was 256lbs when I started. My goal was to lose weight and try to get strong while doing so. Lifts went from:
Squat-75lbs to 202.5
Bench-115 to 180
Overhead press-65 to 107.5
Dead lifts-95 to 280

I seemed to have stalled on both my lifts and weight/fat loss (I knew this would happen at some point on a caloric deficit)

I was able to lose about a pound a week on a tdee-20% caloric restriction. I re-adjusted after every 5lbs lost which brings me to my current caloric intake of 2395. I have been there since I re-adjusted because I have not lost anymore weight/fat. I am not at my maintenance because my maintenance is about 3100 and I know this because I was able to lose the 1lb a week for a while. I weigh EVERYTHING and log EVERYTHING in MFP. I really can't fathom going any lower. I am a big guy on a strenuous program.
Basically my question is: If I am doing everything I am supposed to, why can't I seem to lose the jiggly soft fat on my stomach and love handles if I am in a deficit?

My other big question is: If you need to be in a deficit to lose fat and be in a surplus to gain muscle, how do these fat obese people make a complete transformation? In other words go from 40%bf and fat to 15% and muscular/lean if you face to problem I stated above of being in a deficit or surplus to acquire your goals?

Would eating at maintenance or 100cals lower help burn fat while increasing my lifts and strength?
I will attach some before and current pics to show my progress. First 2 pics are before. Last 3 are current.

Guys please help this fat bastard get on track, for once...

[tarmyg]

First, congratulations on trying to stick to it and change your life around.

Could you detail your diet a bit more and break it down in Macros? Are you doing and cardio up until this point?
~T

[Kozmo]

Take a break from strength training for two weeks and do interval cardio
Who is these fat obese people?

[Times Roman]

cardio is the key.

keep cutting your calories if you hit the wall. keep your protein intake above 1.5 grams of protein per pound of LBM.

changing things up helps. focus more on the cardio and less on the strength training. get rid of the fat first. it makes everything else easier going forward.

now, I noticed you seem reasonably accurate with your TDEE estimate. and you know to keep readjusting your TDEE calculation as your body weight drops. Good.

now, a little more about the cardio. To find the sweet spot to lose fat,

40 minutes a day minimum, at between 50 and 80 percent of your max heart rate
(220 - "your age" = max heart rate)
minimum every other day.
if you can do this every day, great. if you can do this for an hour instead of the minimum 40 minutes, great.

This will speed up your metabolism, and burn fat. And if you are doing this at say maybe 500 cals below TDEE, you will lose weight.

Next, post up your diet in the nutrition section and let's see what you are eating. Need macros per meal and macros per day.
We will critique your nutrition plan. For most, it's not as ideal as they think. We will find out with you.

This is really all it takes. Simple to say, not so simple to do.

Let me know if any questions
---Roman

[tarmyg]

I do not agree with the break from strength training at all. Adding cardio to this is a great idea but why cut out weights, makes zero sense to me. I have always only added cardio to an already intense weight training and that have worked great for me anyhow.

[fitnesstrainer]

Take a break from strength training for two weeks and do interval cardio Who is these fat obese people?

Stopping strength training would halt his progress as aerobic work tends to, on it's own, lower the metabolic rate of most individuals bodies. Do not stop strength training but add cardio in there for sure. Congrats on your progress as of yet. Seriously good work.

[redrum86]

First, congratulations on trying to stick to it and change your life around.

Could you detail your diet a bit more and break it down in Macros? Are you doing and cardio up until this point?
~T

Thanks for the response.
Pro/carbs/fat
207g/178g/92g

I am not doing cardio.

cardio is the key.

keep cutting your calories if you hit the wall. keep your protein intake above 1.5 grams of protein per pound of LBM.

changing things up helps. focus more on the cardio and less on the strength training. get rid of the fat first. it makes everything else easier going forward.

now, I noticed you seem reasonably accurate with your TDEE estimate. and you know to keep readjusting your TDEE calculation as your body weight drops. Good.

now, a little more about the cardio. To find the sweet spot to lose fat,

40 minutes a day minimum, at between 50 and 80 percent of your max heart rate
(220 - "your age" = max heart rate)
minimum every other day.
if you can do this every day, great. if you can do this for an hour instead of the minimum 40 minutes, great.

This will speed up your metabolism, and burn fat. And if you are doing this at say maybe 500 cals below TDEE, you will lose weight.

Next, post up your diet in the nutrition section and let's see what you are eating. Need macros per meal and macros per day.
We will critique your nutrition plan. For most, it's not as ideal as they think. We will find out with you.

This is really all it takes. Simple to say, not so simple to do.

Let me know if any questions
---Roman

Thanks for the response. I had my diet checked in the diet forum a couple of months back. It all checked out.
About the cardio. I have seen proof that you don't need cardio to lose weight. A simple workout plan and caloric restriction will suffice. What it comes down to is being in a deficit, whether you create that deficit by dropping from your maintenance or eating your maintenance and doing exercise to get you to drop below it. In the end, isn't it just about being in a deficit?

How do people transform their bodies and lose the weight and still build muscle if theoretically it's not possible?


Btw, the program I am not doesn't call for cardio and for a good reason. People have lost a shit load of weight doing it. Just not sure whats going on with me...

[tarmyg]

It is perfectly fine for many people to burn fat by only doing weight training and many do so on this very forum. Now, everyone is different and this might simply not work for you. So regardless of what this program calls for, if you stall (and it would seem you have) you can add a very small amount of cardio for a couple of weeks to see how this is affecting your ability to keep burning fat. I would suggest something really small like 10min of HIIT 3 times/week for a couple of weeks and see how it goes. You will want to start small so you have somewhere to go once you stall again.

[Times Roman]

I do not agree with the break from strength training at all. Adding cardio to this is a great idea but why cut out weights, makes zero sense to me. I have always only added cardio to an already intense weight training and that have worked great for me anyhow.

with only 15 weeks into it, I doubt his CNS has much depth? If this is accurate, his focus will not be extensive, but will improve over time. With limited focus, I was recommending losing the fat first, as this weight reduces performance in a variety of areas. Joint health, cardio vascular, central nervous system, endurance.....

It's the approach I used many years ago when I slipped and gained too much weight.

Thanks for the response.
Pro/carbs/fat
207g/178g/92g

I am not doing cardio.


Thanks for the response. I had my diet checked in the diet forum a couple of months back. It all checked out.
About the cardio. I have seen proof that you don't need cardio to lose weight. A simple workout plan and caloric restriction will suffice. What it comes down to is being in a deficit, whether you create that deficit by dropping from your maintenance or eating your maintenance and doing exercise to get you to drop below it. In the end, isn't it just about being in a deficit?

How do people transform their bodies and lose the weight and still build muscle if theoretically it's not possible?


Btw, the program I am not doesn't call for cardio and for a good reason. People have lost a shit load of weight doing it. Just not sure whats going on with me...

cardio, after about (what is it) 25 minutes, cardio in the prescribed pulse rate range, forces the body to burn fat. This is a paradigm shift from just simply "hitting the weights" where you can be in the gym for an hour, yet not force the body to burn fat, and thereby utilize calories from sources other than fat.

Yes, you can lose weight, and fat/lbm by being in a caloric deficit only, but add cardio to that mix while you are forcing your body to burn fat, and now you have a new dimension to your bf% reduction strategy. In other words, this combination helps you reduce bf% and maintain LBM better than being in a calorie deficit alone.

Make sense?

Just ideas mate.

You do as you think best

Good luck!

---Roman

[tarmyg]

with only 15 weeks into it, I doubt his CNS has much depth? If this is accurate, his focus will not be extensive, but will improve over time. With limited focus, I was recommending losing the fat first, as this weight reduces performance in a variety of areas. Joint health, cardio vascular, central nervous system, endurance.....

It's the approach I used many years ago when I slipped and gained too much weight.

You are probably correct about the CNS but my recommendation would stand as it, in my opinion, would be better to increase intensity and then add cardio after this. If done correctly HR will already be within recommended range and a jump in to a short HIIT will be enough to achieve the same result. This would also keep the person training on how to train with weights for which I only see benefits.

[redrum86]

If im going to add cardio, im going to have to change the program. Perhaps strength training isn't a good idea for someone who is trying to lose weight because it requires you to eat a lot. Whats a decent beginner hypertrophy program? That way ill be able to ad cardio

[tarmyg]

If im going to add cardio, im going to have to change the program. Perhaps strength training isn't a good idea for someone who is trying to lose weight because it requires you to eat a lot. Whats a decent beginner hypertrophy program? That way ill be able to ad cardio

Not much of this is making any sense to me. Why can you not lift weights and burn fat? What is so special about your current program that adding cardio will throw that completely off?

[redrum86]

Not much of this is making any sense to me. Why can you not lift weights and burn fat? What is so special about your current program that adding cardio will throw that completely off?

Are you aware of what Starting Strength entails?

[tarmyg]

Are you aware of what Starting Strength entails?

Yes, but cardio on the rest days should be fine he just do not recommend it. Also, you are trying to burn fat as your main objective (unless I am missing something) so following any program to the letter that prohibits the kind of progression you are looking for would seem counter intuitive.

[fitnesstrainer]

with only 15 weeks into it, I doubt his CNS has much depth? If this is accurate, his focus will not be extensive, but will improve over time. With limited focus, I was recommending losing the fat first, as this weight reduces performance in a variety of areas. Joint health, cardio vascular, central nervous system, endurance..... It's the approach I used many years ago when I slipped and gained too much weight. cardio, after about (what is it) 25 minutes, cardio in the prescribed pulse rate range, forces the body to burn fat. This is a paradigm shift from just simply "hitting the weights" where you can be in the gym for an hour, yet not force the body to burn fat, and thereby utilize calories from sources other than fat. Yes, you can lose weight, and fat/lbm by being in a caloric deficit only, but add cardio to that mix while you are forcing your body to burn fat, and now you have a new dimension to your bf% reduction strategy. In other words, this combination helps you reduce bf% and maintain LBM better than being in a calorie deficit alone. Make sense? Just ideas mate. You do as you think best Good luck! ---Roman

Aerobic work will end up slowing his BMR, which is the opposite of what he wants. He needs to keep lifting weight because aerobic type physical activity does not increase your metabolic rate. This in the long run will put him even farther from his goals. Also 40 minutes of cardio is excessive. 30 minutes is more than enough plus 30 minutes of weights.

[tarmyg]

Aerobic work will end up slowing his BMR

Is this a serious comment?

[DrewZ]

As someone who has lost 100lbs of fat through proper diet and exercise,
The 20-30 mins of light cardio AFTER resistance training(5 to 6 days a week) and 40+ mins on rest days was essential.

How is your water intake?
Are you consuming alcohol? If so I would eliminate it completely.

edit;
When I say light cardio, I'm talking about the range TR mentioned - perfect!

[fitnesstrainer]

Is this a serious comment?

Yes. Aerobic work tends to slow the metabolic rate on its own. I'm not saying don't do it, as I stated earlier, it is very important but on it's own it dosent do much to bolster the metabolic rate.

[tarmyg]

Fitness level and BMR correlation is not supported in the literature at this time but if you have a study to backup that claim I would love to learn more. There are however some support for a short increase in BMR after cardio/weight training but the effects are very small.

[fitnesstrainer]

Fitness level and BMR correlation is not supported in the literature at this time but if you have a study to backup that claim I would love to learn more. There are however some support for a short increase in BMR after cardio/weight training but the effects are very small.

I'm not talking about a specific level of fitness I'm talking about a specific kind of activity.

[redrum86]

Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry I couldn't respond. I was out of the country.
As I stated before, I don't think a strength program is ideal for someone looking to lose weight because it requires you to eat a lot to help with strength. Can any agree with this?
If so, perhaps a regular hypertrophy program would be best at this time? I always read compound workouts are ideal for fat loss. Can anyone give me any pointers on whats a good type of program for my goal? I will incorporate cardio now.
Any pointers or tips on a kind of program?

Thanks guys

[tarmyg]

Any pointers or tips on a kind of program?

Google Musclehack THT and follow that. Works great for me anyhow. I have modified it now a bit as I know better what works and not for my body but an awesome place to start.