Been training natural 20 years, 37 yrs old, and have questions..

[Bigbucks1]

Hey guys, new here. I've been training serious for almost 20 years now. I'm in good shape comparatively to most my age. I'm 6'3" and am weighing in at 215. Pretty lean, not overly impressive in size but good solid natural build I guess. For the last several years, I just haven't been able to make much progress. I switch my workouts, clean up my diet, train harder than most I see in my gym and still kinda stay the same. My genetics aren't the greatest for getting big. Tall and thin builds are the norm in my family and I'm probably 20-30 lbs bigger than all the men in my family and we are all the same height. I'm pretty certain I've reached my potential.

I'm considering trying my first cycle but still have more to learn. I've been doing research for a while now and have been learning a lot here. Thanks for sharing your info btw.

My goals: I'm not trying to get huge but I would like to put on a bit more size. 15-20 lbs would be ideal of lean muscle gain. My body fat is in the low teens. I can post a pic if that would help.

My questions: What would be a good first cycle (keeping in mind I would like a somewhat safe experience here and that I'm looking to gain 15-20lbs and then maintain that for the long haul).

Im still learning the importance of PCT but it sounds like HC Generate ES and Clomid are a good start?

Sorry for the nooby questions but just trying to gather info. I've been wanting to PM some of the more experienced guys but it won't let me yet. So any input is appreciated.

Thanks guys.

[dfarre]

If you have reached your potential and then go past it with steroids you can't maintain it when you come off.

[Bigbucks1]

Sorry, I realize that. I intend to cycle and keep up with it. I just wanted to be clear that I'm not trying to add incredible size over many years (don't know if that matters). Im looking to make some gains 15-20lbs and maintain them with the use of a steroid cycle but I don't know where I should start or what would be good maintenance doses for the long run.

[dfarre]

It's called blasting and cruising, it's not encouraged here. If you do it you don't need a PCT.
But if you choose to blast and cruise I would suggest first doing a cycle with PCT just to see how you react when coming off.

[Bigbucks1]

Thanks dfarre, Why is it not encouraged?? For health reasons? And why don't you need a pct coming off?

Is it a cycle thats shortened less frequent? Or is there an old thread you could direct me to?

Thanks

[dfarre]

I don't know, I think blasting and cruising is a better choice if you're serious about it. Blasting and cruising means not coming off, just lowering the dose, that's why PCT is not needed, because the "cycle" never ends.
I don't know if there are threads about blasting and cruising here.

[Avi3510]

I'm new to this whole thing, but i would say you need to hear out what others have to say, especially the vets, before making a decision. I'm not positive, but I believe blasting and cruising is ultimately a life long decision. I don't know that after years of blasting and cruising that your test will ever return to a point where you don't need hrt, so basically your making a decision that will affect the rest of your life. There's way better options on here, and tons of experience. I'm glad you posted this and I think you will be too in the end. Good luck my friend.

[Avi3510]

Op, check out this article. It took me almost two months to read the article then every comment and reply back from Austinite and it was so worth it. Then head to the stickies and you can find just about everything you need to know to make that decision.

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

[numbere]

You may gain 15-20 lbs on your first cycle, but you will not maintain all that mass post PCT. Most of that weight will be in the form of water and nutrients. If you diet correctly you will more likely maintain 5-7 lbs.

Unless you are training for Olympia or are on TRT then the notion of cruising should not be entertained. This is an outdated method. We have far safer ways of using AAS today.

You should definitely give the attached thread in post #8 several though reads. Then ask any questions you have.

[dfarre]

I disagree, cycling is worse on the body than b&c. Rather not use steroids at all.

[PistolPete33]

I disagree, cycling is worse on the body than b&c. Rather not use steroids at all.

This is TERRIBLE ADVICE!!!! Stop giving out advice that is going to cause people to have life long problems.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I disagree, cycling is worse on the body than b&c. Rather not use steroids at all.

OP, please ignore the 25yr YOLO's advice.
He is too young to know any better.

[PistolPete33]

OP- To gain 15-20lbs of lean muscle tissue on one cycle is prob. not realistic. You can prob. gain 15-20lbs. on your first cycle but some of that will be muscle, fat, and water. However, if you train and eat properly you can EASILY get a net gain of 10 lbs of lean muscle tissue that you maintain post cycle.

Do not blast and cruise. That is a lifelong decision. Trust me on this. I'm on TRT and it's a pain in the ass and I would much rather be able to finish a cycle do PCT and call it a day.

Run a very simple cycle of 500mg Test E or C with HCG during the entire cycle and a strong PCT of Nolva and Clomid. Run the cycle for 12 weeks with 4 weeks of PCT with 2 weeks between last injection and start of PCT. Simple yet very effective.

[numbere]

I disagree, cycling is worse on the body than b&c. Rather not use steroids at all.

Mistakes are the usual bridge between inexperience and wisdom.

[Bigbucks1]

Thanks for the info guys. I will read up on that thread and post any further questions. I don't expect to gain 15-20 and keep it. I realize that I would likely be cycling from now forward. I just have no interest in getting bigger than the goal I have in mind so I wasn't sure what was best. Maybe like Pistol Pete mentioned above, a simple cycle followed by a good PCT and stick with that for the long run.

[dfarre]

How is wreaking havoc on your HPTA several times a year not worse than just shutting it off?

[numbere]

How is wreaking havoc on your HPTA several times a year not worse than just shutting it off?

Hey man I think it's great that you have different opinions then most of the people on here and challenge the status quo. However, it's rather rude to take someone else's thread in another direction. If you have question or would like to have a discussion on another topic then start another thread.

[hawk14dl]

Dfarre, please stop giving advice. The advice you give is not what we advocate here, and you're not experienced enough to be giving advice in the first place.

Op, it hasn't been mentioned yet but go get some blood work done. There are a lot of men in their 30s with low t that don't even know it. Besides that, having starting numbers is recommended before cycling anyways.

A simple cycle of 500mg test, armidex (atomataze inhibitor), and hcg (NOT hc generate, that stuff isn't real) would be your best bet. Add a pct when you're done. Everything you need to know is the sticky "how to plan and execute your first cycle". Check it out, good reading.

Dfarre, since you asked a question I'll answer. Shutting down and restarting your hpta twice a year is better then completely shutting it off because. . Two years from now when you have a family and work obligations and you can't get in the gym like you do now. . No big deal! If you shut yourself down and go on trt, guess what you'll still be pinning. . The rest of your life.

None of us know what life has in store for us. You can't live today as if your life will always be just like it is.

So please, stop giving haphazard advice. It's not what we do here

[PistolPete33]

How is wreaking havoc on your HPTA several times a year not worse than just shutting it off?

Because the longer you are shutdown the less likely you are to recover. You should not be running more than 1 or 2 cycle per year anyways so it gives your body several months to recover post-cycle.

[lovbyts]

I don't know, I think blasting and cruising is a better choice if you're serious about it. Blasting and cruising means not coming off, just lowering the dose, that's why PCT is not needed, because the "cycle" never ends.
I don't know if there are threads about blasting and cruising here.

By a better choice he means because he wants to eliminate his sex drive and interest in women completely.

Read his previous post and then decide if he is someone you want to take advice from.

[lovbyts]

How is wreaking havoc on your HPTA several times a year not worse than just shutting it off?

Well in your case I agree killing the problem and being done with it would be a better solution vs letting it recover and survive.

Oh wait, we were talking about HPTA?

[qscgugcsq]

Coming off is pointless in the longrun...

Everycycle you do you risk permanent hpta damage which will ultimatly lead to TRT anyway
You lose your gain afterward and cant maintain over your potential natty which your potentiel drop every cycle cause your test is lower after each cycle.

The older you get the lower your test become so eventually youll need TRT anyway.

So if you are serious about it blasting and cruising is the way to go.
You already trained for 20 years that tell.me that training is going to be a part of your whole life. So you are serious about that life.

Therefore IMHO cycling is pointless if cruising is an option.

And health wise it is easely manageable if you know what you sre doing and best if you are followed by a competent doctor.

My advice is learn as much as you can, dont rush anythinf, try to find a competent doctor who is willing to work with you.
And go ON for your whole life.

However the advice to do a cycle just to see whats happen is also a good option.
And see afterward if you want to keep going for the rest of your life.

Take your times this is not a race and this is an important descision

[qscgugcsq]

By a better choice he means because he wants to eliminate his sex drive and interest in women completely.

Read his previous post and then decide if he is someone you want to take advice from.

I know why you try to discourage him but seriously...

By cycling you are risking ED and libido loss in post cycle.
By cruising you dont risk it(except if you let your hormone go out of wack)

Discourage him as much as you want but stay true.

[hawk14dl]

By cycling, yes you run the risk of damaging your hpta.

If that happens, yes you can get on trt.

But if you don't need it, why would you do it? F#ck i wish i didn't need trt!

[lovbyts]

I know why you try to discourage him but seriously...

By cycling you are risking ED and libido loss in post cycle.
By cruising you dont risk it(except if you let your hormone go out of wack)

Discourage him as much as you want but stay true.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better but its not even close to the truth.

Lots of people cycle just fine and never need trt. Sounds like you are just trying to convince yourself also.

[Bigbucks1]

Thanks for all the replys guys. Still doing my research.

What are you opinions on SARMS? Specifically Osterine and LGD cylcle followed by a mini PCT? On another site a few guys recommended this route for me but I also think they sell the product. I know they aren't steroids and will not produce steroid like results per say but are they legit? Any first hand users that don't sell them?