24 Y\o First Cycle: Test E/Dbol

[RedHuman]

Hey all. Gonna be trying to keep as detailed a log as I can here seeing as this is my first cycle. I should be receiving everything to be listed within a couple weeks and just wanted to get some input on what people think. I will not be starting anything until I have everything.

A bit of background. I am 24 years old. I've been Powerlifting for about 8 years now, 6 or more seriously. I am 203 lbs (this morning before food and drink). 15% bf possibly 14% but no lower. Lifts are 515/365/560 currently and want to see what i can do about getting them up as much as possible!

The cycle will be pretty simple and lined up like so:

Test E: 500mg/wk (2x250) Week 1-12
Dbol: 20/20/30/30 (will only bump if sides are minimal) Week 1-4
Aromasin: 12.5 eod week 1-14 (will have plenty to bump dose up if needed)
PCT: Nolva:40/40/20/20
Clomid: 50/50/50/50

Will begin pct exactly 2 weeks from last pin. Ive researched for some time now and finally decided it was time to give the injectables a shot (pun intended). Please shoot me any feedback and follow along if you like! Happy lifting!

P.s. attached a pic. Hopefully it loads!

[TheTaxMan]

Just out of interest how tall are you?

Seem to have a nice solid base to work from, so well done, your training and eating thus far have clearly worked

Id drop the dbol for a first cycle, lets not complicate things, its repeated quite often here and is gospel, if running 2 compounds at the same time on a first cycle and you get side effects, whos to say which compound has caused them?

See how your body reacts with test only, later down the line add other stuff

You seemed to have done plenty of research too

The only thing your missing which is recommended by most here is HCG, im not advising it but ive personaly never used it, id also adjust your clomid a bit higher on the first week, 75mg would be good, and your second week of nolvadex id drop down to 20mg

Its always good to draw a bloodwork and get a full panel done befor you start, then in the middle to compare and determine wether you need more or less of your AI (aromasin in your case), then do bloodwork a couple of months after PCT to check how well you recovered.

You posting pics along the way?

Good luck

[RedHuman]

Thanks for the quick reply man!
To address your points in order: first im 5'11 bare foot.

Second: the reason I opted for the oral kick was because it's so fast acting that I figure if anything crops up in the first 4 weeks (dbol time) it will be before the test has had any time to kick in so I will know it is the dbol and discontinue if absolutely necessary. (That and a speedy kick start seems appealing, I won't lie..)

Third: The Clomid being 75/50/50/50 and the Nolva being 40/20/20/20 would also be doable.

Lastly: if i can find a local place to do the bloods, then I will do so. If not, I will be monitoring blood pressure and estrogen related sides very closely. For instance if i get too much acne...any gyno at all...too much bloat, I will up the dose with aromasin. If my sex drive crashes, I will drop back to e3d with aromasin and see if that fixes it. If not? I will drop it back to an "as needed" basis.

[RedHuman]

Also, if anyone was curious about the diet, which is debatabley the most important of things..it goes similar to this on a typical day:

Meal 1: 4-5 eggs+ 4 slices of bacon or sausage+ slice of toast
Meal 2: generally a large roast beef and cheese sandwich from the deli Iwork in.
Meal 3: 2 cups brown rice + some manor of fried up beef (approx 1 lb) with 1 tbs peanut butter
Meal 4: either 2 cups of pasta or 2 cups rice + chicken (approx 1lb) with 1 tbs peanut butter
Meal 5: usually before bed another tbs peanut butter + 1.5 cups cottage cheese.

[kelkel]

Read the Successful First Cycle Thread at the top of the AAS Q & A Forum and follow it.
You do not need Dbol. Learn what test alone will do for you without complicating things. Be the one from your generation that is not reckless and wants their results yesterday.
HCG is needed if you care about your testicals. Don't start your cycle without it. It's readily available.
Tax Man's advice to get BW is on point and crucial. What to get is in the First Cycle Thread I spoke of. Their are private sites available. This is critical to establish baselines which allows you to see if you return to normal 8 weeks or so after pct.

[RedHuman]

Just curious then, what would be the difference in recovery time between if I were to run the cycle with the hcg and if I were to run it without it? Assuming if course that everything else was in place. Because a bit of a decrease in size while ON cycle to me is not that huge of a deal as long as the size comes back after.

[RedHuman]

Only reason is it will take a good bit of time to get it now.

[kelkel]

There's also a link in Austinites Database regarding HCG.

No one can answer that question as we are all individuals and respond differently. Some people never recover from a cycle even with all safeguards in place. It's always a crapshoot.

Just understand that it's much better to use HCG throughout your cycle and to maintain testicular function than it is to not use it and let them basically go dormant, thus making recovery more difficult. I can only assume that you value your testicals and would like them to function throughout your cycle. Yes, HCG will help maintain size, again by virtue of maintaining function. Without it, shrinkage can occur and there's no guarantee normal size will return.

[RedHuman]

Thanks man. Like i said in the original, gear won't be here for a bit, just wanted to get this up so i could get the input. Ill definitely try to lay hands on hCG before the start, might keep the dbol still even though it might not be the popular decision but won't over do it.

As a side note, from what i understand, its fine if i use a slin needle for hcg?

[Charlie67]

There's also a link in Austinites Database regarding HCG.

No one can answer that question as we are all individuals and respond differently. Some people never recover from a cycle even with all safeguards in place. It's always a crapshoot.

If you read around, you'll soon find Kel knows his stuff, and his advice is solid. I'd recommend listening to him. And the thread he references is likely THE BEST thread I've ever read in getting started in this lifestyle.

To give you an idea of how HCG helped me (if you're looking for 'test'imonials...see what I did there ....anyway, I started my first cycle without HCG, after a couple of weeks, I had some serious pain in my testicles....like an omnipresent ache... and they shrunk to nearly nothing. My orgasms sucked, and the "output" was miniscule (insert joke about miniscule testicles here).

I started HCG and the pain eased up dramatically, a little size came back, and sex was better. By all accounts I went on to have a great recovery (fyi, PCT just sucks, there's no way around it, just get comfortable with that idea). I can't tell you for sure things got better because of the HCG, but in my next cycle I used HCG from the start, other than a little size, I didn't have any of the same issues.

There's 'science' behind why HCG is a great addition and likely why it'll improve your chance of recovery... Go read that thread Kel referenced... But there's my thoughts.

Best of luck my friend,
C-

[Charlie67]

Thanks man. Like i said in the original, gear won't be here for a bit, just wanted to get this up so i could get the input. Ill definitely try to lay hands on hCG before the start, might keep the dbol still even though it might not be the popular decision but won't over do it.

As a side note, from what i understand, its fine if i use a slin needle for hcg?

Keeping the Dbol isn't a popular decision, but you walk your own path.

I draw my HCG and my Test into one syringe, and inject it at the same time. No need for another needle.

[RedHuman]

Keeping the Dbol isn't a popular decision, but you walk your own path.

I draw my HCG and my Test into one syringe, and inject it at the same time. No need for another needle.

Do you draw the hcg first or the test first? Also leave an air gap between the two or no?

[Mr.BB]

Do you draw the hcg first or the test first? Also leave an air gap between the two or no?

Although it can be done, it is really not advised to put oil and water in the same syringe, reasons for this:
- water and oil have totally different viscosity making it hard to draw both produts in same syringe without cross contamination.
- you have to change needles swapping from one vial to the other, no needle saving (although it cost pennies...)
- HCG done subcutaneous with an insulin needle is completely painless and hassle free
- Its almost impossible to measure HCG correctly on IM syringe, as the volume is very low (it can be as low as 0.1ml)
- higher risk of infection, as the draw process leaves more room for it.

Consider you will also need bacteriostatic water, and empty sterile vial (depending on HCG brand), for the HCG preparation. The regular water that comes with HCG is usually not bacteriostatic.

[Charlie67]

Respect to Mr BB, another knowledgeable guy. Consider his advice deeply, his ideas are likely more optimal.

I do draw my hcg first and then my Test. I've not (yet) had any issues drawing or injecting them together. He's right about mixing it, it's a hassle the first time, but regardless of how you choose to inject it, you have to mix it most likely. There's a boat-load of YouTube videos showing how to mix and inject.

Oh, and I draw my Test and my HCG with the same needle, then switch to a new needle and inject them. So yes, two needles, one injection.

[Mr.BB]

Thanks Charlie! Dont take my post personally, just laying it out for the OP.

If it works for you its fine, both ways can work. Personally find HCG subq more convenient.

[RedHuman]

I appreciate the advice guys. If i can manage to get some i will most likely do subq injections. Looked up some of the videos last night and since this will be my first time pinning anything I figure the less hassle the better.

[RedHuman]

Looked into it this afternoon and i will be able to get 5000iu (enough for 10 weeks) won't be enough to cover the whole cycle before pct, but i figure it's better than not having it!

Since i have a limited supply, where would you run it in the cycle? I was thinking start it end of week 2 and run the whole time im on the test at 500/week as suggested.

[Charlie67]

If you have to, start it late. I'd want to run hcg all the way up to the start of my pct. You hopefully are planning to have 14 days or so between your last injection of test, and the start of your pct.... If that's so... That's 2 weeks of hcg, then back up another 8 wks (10wks of hcg total) and start it there.

Good luck,
C-

[USVet81]

I agree with BB. Personally I wouldn't consider mixing HCG and test and personally I never reuse needles even for drawing. Perhaps I'm being cautious but I don't risk the cross contamination aspect here. This goes the same for pinning. Even after you've sterilized an area to inject, and you're using a sterile needle, if you have to pull the needle out before injectong because you knick a vein or something you should still swap needles before pinning again.

Sometimes with HCG I get a light pinch when pinning near my belly button but after a little while you'll likely find a spot where you have no real sensation to the insulin syringe. Most of the time I don't feel it.

Again, for me personally I've had great success with just 250 iu of HCG once per week. When I was about halfway through my first cycle of 500mg/wk cyp I started getting shooting pains in my right nut. I wasn't using HCG at the time but added 250 iu a week and it went away. I also never saw nut shrinkage or decrease in function. Towards the end of my cycle I did boost HCG to about 1000 iu per week for a few weeks coming into PCT, and again, for me, this worked well.

Just my two cents. In the end you'll find what works best for you as well.

Good luck.

[RedHuman]

If you have to, start it late. I'd want to run hcg all the way up to the start of my pct. You hopefully are planning to have 14 days or so between your last injection of test, and the start of your pct.... If that's so... That's 2 weeks of hcg, then back up another 8 wks (10wks of hcg total) and start it there.

Good luck,
C-

Definitely gonna do it right up to the pct including (yes im leaving 14 days after last test pin before pct) time not injecting test. Thanks for confirming though!

[RedHuman]

I agree with BB. Personally I wouldn't consider mixing HCG and test and personally I never reuse needles even for drawing. Perhaps I'm being cautious but I don't risk the cross contamination aspect here. This goes the same for pinning. Even after you've sterilized an area to inject, and you're using a sterile needle, if you have to pull the needle out before injectong because you knick a vein or something you should still swap needles before pinning again.

Sometimes with HCG I get a light pinch when pinning near my belly button but after a little while you'll likely find a spot where you have no real sensation to the insulin syringe. Most of the time I don't feel it.

Again, for me personally I've had great success with just 250 iu of HCG once per week. When I was about halfway through my first cycle of 500mg/wk cyp I started getting shooting pains in my right nut. I wasn't using HCG at the time but added 250 iu a week and it went away. I also never saw nut shrinkage or decrease in function. Towards the end of my cycle I did boost HCG to about 1000 iu per week for a few weeks coming into PCT, and again, for me, this worked well.

Just my two cents. In the end you'll find what works best for you as well.

Good luck.

Definitely going to pin this with the insulin needle! Seems all around the easiest and Safest way

[songdog]

Thanks for the quick reply man!
To address your points in order: first im 5'11 bare foot.

Second: the reason I opted for the oral kick was because it's so fast acting that I figure if anything crops up in the first 4 weeks (dbol time) it will be before the test has had any time to kick in so I will know it is the dbol and discontinue if absolutely necessary. (That and a speedy kick start seems appealing, I won't lie..)

Third: The Clomid being 75/50/50/50 and the Nolva being 40/20/20/20 would also be doable.

Lastly: if i can find a local place to do the bloods, then I will do so. If not, I will be monitoring blood pressure and estrogen related sides very closely. For instance if i get too much acne...any gyno at all...too much bloat, I will up the dose with aromasin. If my sex drive crashes, I will drop back to e3d with aromasin and see if that fixes it. If not? I will drop it back to an "as needed" basis.

The only thing you didn't think about was as soon as you inject the test you can have a reaction.This is why we say only do test.