Medical doctors

[HoldMyBeer]

So I was listening to voices radio. There's a doctor there who gets monthly newsletters about current practices and studies. In that newsletter there was an article about how to treat people with gender identity disorder and wanting to change over gender. It goes on about which hormones to prescribe them in order to do so. The discussion that was brought up, is if people have GID I want to be prescribed hormones, it's encouraged. But if you're a male, and you just want to get bigger, have stronger male characteristics, have a better sense of health and well-being, they make it almost impossible to get a prescription for testosterone. If you're a female that wants to become a male, they can get a prescription with only a speech about the possible side effects, and don't have to jump through hoops. In fact one could argue that a female having elevated levels to test is even more dangerous than a male having elevated levels. How you feel about that?

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[Ernst]

Level of care: 0

[SocioMachiavelli]

Lets be clear on something, they have a medical condition or psychological condition (whichever way you want to look at it) that can justify the use of the prescription of testosterone etc and the accompanying side effects. You want to take them for the cosmetic purposes, the purpose of a doctor is to treat medical conditions... not boost your ego. So how you can try to make an equivalence between the two makes no sense to me.

Steroids can help you become bigger, but so can hard work.... drugs are not a short cut... if you really want it you will go and get it. Steroids are also not "healthy" they cause side effects which can lead to permanent issues like hypertension, heart issues.

[Gallowmere]

Lets be clear on something, they have a medical condition or psychological condition (whichever way you want to look at it) that can justify the use of the prescription of testosterone etc and the accompanying side effects. You want to take them for the cosmetic purposes, the purpose of a doctor is to treat medical conditions... not boost your ego. So how you can try to make an equivalence between the two makes no sense to me.

Steroids can help you become bigger, but so can hard work.... drugs are not a short cut... if you really want it you will go and get it. Steroids are also not "healthy" they cause side effects which can lead to permanent issues like hypertension, heart issues.

Precisely this.

I had a medical need for testosterone: a total between 50-120. Guess how much trouble I had getting it prescribed. Right. None.

[HoldMyBeer]

Lets be clear on something, they have a medical condition or psychological condition (whichever way you want to look at it) that can justify the use of the prescription of testosterone etc and the accompanying side effects. You want to take them for the cosmetic purposes, the purpose of a doctor is to treat medical conditions... not boost your ego. So how you can try to make an equivalence between the two makes no sense to me.

Steroids can help you become bigger, but so can hard work.... drugs are not a short cut... if you really want it you will go and get it. Steroids are also not "healthy" they cause side effects which can lead to permanent issues like hypertension, heart issues.

Body dysmorphia?

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[Couchlockd]

Body dysmorphia?

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That's just phsycological masturbation.

A man wanting to be a woman is not a medical condition.

They will not die if they don't become a woman.

A trt patient is a medical condition though. Living with low T can have serious deleterious effects and even fatal effects on the body.

Let's just clear that up, ok?

[HoldMyBeer]

That's just phsycological masturbation.

A man wanting to be a woman is not a medical condition.

They will not die if they don't become a woman.

A trt patient is a medical condition though. Living with low T can have serious deleterious effects and even fatal effects on the body.

Let's just clear that up, ok?

Agreed.
I was saying that because the argument was GID is a condition that is treated w hormones (a psychological one). So it was a counter example
And I had to jump through hoops and see 3 different specialists to get on TrT. I have heard many other stories of similar experiences. I'm glad to hear not everyone had to go through that. Living w low t symptoms sucks

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[Proximal]

HMB, I understand your point. Even after my pituitary adenoma was shrunk with cabergoline, my test levels were around 150. Apparently that was in an “acceptable range” for my physician. I was made to feel like all I was looking for was something to improve my appearance. I paid an out of pocket for a while at a TRT clinic initially & I think my doctor saw how important it was to me & ultimately changed her mind.

I personally feel that the gym is valuable experience both mentally & physically & that experience varies from person to person. For some in the medical profession it would simply be getting on a stationary bike for 30 minutes & calling it a day.

For me, the ability to show progress for my work, even at my age is crucial to my mental health. Is this a legit medical condition, of course not, but I will place it a step beyond muscle dysmorphia.

[EDCG19]

But if you're a male, and you just want to get bigger, have stronger male characteristics, have a better sense of health and well-being, they make it almost impossible to get a prescription for testosterone. If you're a female that wants to become a male, they can get a prescription with only a speech about the possible side effects, and don't have to jump through hoops. In fact one could argue that a female having elevated levels to test is even more dangerous than a male having elevated levels. How you feel about that?

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100% correct and common in this world. It took me years to get approved for TRT and once I finally started HRT/TRT I was filled with anger and disgust with the medical com,unity since I asked about this years ago to my doc and they said they wont even run blood work for hormones, the only shit the medical community did for me was bullshit like cholesterol, blood lipids and glucose type shitt. Its laughable how long it took me to finally get on TRT

Another thing regarding WTM (women to men) I have met some of them before and interestingly enough they don't have access to their own blood work, the doc runs the bloods and they get weekly injections of 200mg cyp per week or every other week. I have asked them before how they got access to this and they said the "medical community" is in full support of this for them
Its fucking bullshit, if you're a man and you want to get your hormones in order you have a much harder time through the medical community and gear use is stigmatized, I would know when I started HRT/TRT my body changed, my workouts changed and best of all my fucking mind state changed and then thats when the haters started coming out in my life mentioning shit like "steroids" and other shit around me, fuck them I wouldn't change anything with my gear use these days

[EDCG19]

Lets be clear on something, they have a medical condition or psychological condition (whichever way you want to look at it) that can justify the use of the prescription of testosterone etc and the accompanying side effects. You want to take them for the cosmetic purposes, the purpose of a doctor is to treat medical conditions... not boost your ego. So how you can try to make an equivalence between the two makes no sense to me.

Steroids can help you become bigger, but so can hard work.... drugs are not a short cut... if you really want it you will go and get it. Steroids are also not "healthy" they cause side effects which can lead to permanent issues like hypertension, heart issues.

They have a psychological disorder and the majority of them regret their choices later on because as they grow and change into something else they realize that wasn't them all along and many of them don't end up happier on hormones

[Proximal]

Lets be clear on something, they have a medical condition or psychological condition (whichever way you want to look at it) that can justify the use of the prescription of testosterone etc and the accompanying side effects. You want to take them for the cosmetic purposes, the purpose of a doctor is to treat medical conditions... not boost your ego. So how you can try to make an equivalence between the two makes no sense to me.

Steroids can help you become bigger, but so can hard work.... drugs are not a short cut... if you really want it you will go and get it. Steroids are also not "healthy" they cause side effects which can lead to permanent issues like hypertension, heart issues.

I’m truly not trying to be a smart ass, just having fun and playing devils advocate here.

But, why prescribe someone testosterone or estrogen for gender disorders then if there is a chance there are side effects?

Actually the answer is simply, because many medications carry risk. It’s just which risk is “worse”. In your argument would you say that living as a different gender is worth the immense medical cost of treating “hypertension, heart issues” (that’s potentially, of course). Truly, that is billions upon billions of $ we all foot the bill for if we are paying for medical insurance (being that CV disease is the #1 killer in the US).

So again , playing devils advocate here: Really, my elevated health insurance costs are going to your sex-change treatment & surgery AND then I’m going to pay again for your CV disease?

Now I’m making myself feel guilty, because not only is my insurance paying for my test, but oops, my BP is elevated (maybe related), so there’s more medications/costs. Oops, the BP meds give me ED, there’s more medications/costs. Oops, elevated hair loss, TY insurance for my propecia. Doubtful that any of you share my medical provider, but if you do, TY for covering my costs.

[Gallowmere]

A big part of the issue is that there’s still a bunch of longstanding nonsense in the medical community about test causing heart attacks, prostate cancer, etc. Also, low-test is historically an “old man” problem, so young guys asking for hormone bloods must he trolling for steroids, blah blah etc.

Fortunately, there are a lot of options in the US for guys and gals who are willing to pay cash to go through decent, knowledgeable HRT doctors. Unfortunately, these doctors aren’t quite as well known as they should be yet, because so many people are still wedded to the whole shitty insurance/Medicaid/Medicare system.

Most of the reason that it was so quick and easy for me to get TRT at 33 years old, is because I already had comprehensive bloodwork in hand from PMDL when I went in for my first visit with a urologist, and I pay in cash, so no insurance company has a say in the treatment that I get.

[Proximal]

That's just phsycological masturbation.

A man wanting to be a woman is not a medical condition.

They will not die if they don't become a woman.

A trt patient is a medical condition though. Living with low T can have serious deleterious effects and even fatal effects on the body.

Let's just clear that up, ok?

I'm in a bit of disagreement regarding body dysmorphia. Since the 70's have watched the fitness industry EXPLODE due to body image issues.

I often wonder about the actual legitimacy of this issue.

[SocioMachiavelli]

I’m truly not trying to be a smart ass, just having fun and playing devils advocate here.

But, why prescribe someone testosterone or estrogen for gender disorders then if there is a chance there are side effects?

Actually the answer is simply, because many medications carry risk. It’s just which risk is “worse”. In your argument would you say that living as a different gender is worth the immense medical cost of treating “hypertension, heart issues” (that’s potentially, of course). Truly, that is billions upon billions of $ we all foot the bill for if we are paying for medical insurance (being that CV disease is the #1 killer in the US).

So again , playing devils advocate here: Really, my elevated health insurance costs are going to your sex-change treatment & surgery AND then I’m going to pay again for your CV disease?

Now I’m making myself feel guilty, because not only is my insurance paying for my test, but oops, my BP is elevated (maybe related), so there’s more medications/costs. Oops, the BP meds give me ED, there’s more medications/costs. Oops, elevated hair loss, TY insurance for my propecia. Doubtful that any of you share my medical provider, but if you do, TY for covering my costs.

If a woman feels that they are a man in a woman's body to the extent that it is causing them so much distress in their life.... their only option is to have the surgery and the hormones. A lot of people with gender identity issues can experience mental trauma, suicidal ideation or completing of suicide which > side effects.

People with body dysmorphia, which is closely related to OCD.... one of the most effective way to treat that is with a psychotherapy because once they correct one issue with their appearance will then often move onto another body part that they may wish to change (with true BDD). So this will just become a perpetual cyclical.

If you are low on test..... then absolutely you need it. If you're not you want it..... because it's a shortcut and people don't want to put the work or discipline in naturally first... which is their choice. But it's not a need, it's a want.

[Proximal]

If a woman feels that they are a man in a woman's body to the extent that it is causing them so much distress in their life.... their only option is to have the surgery and the hormones. A lot of people with gender identity issues can experience mental trauma, suicidal ideation or completing of suicide which > side effects.

People with body dysmorphia, which is closely related to OCD.... one of the most effective way to treat that is with a psychotherapy because once they correct one issue with their appearance will then often move onto another body part that they may wish to change (with true BDD). So this will just become a perpetual cyclical.

If you are low on test..... then absolutely you need it. If you're not you want it..... because it's a shortcut and people don't want to put the work or discipline in naturally first... which is their choice. But it's not a need, it's a want.

Joe Weider & the entire "fitness" industry is very happy that more people are not getting psychotherapy, lol.

[Proximal]

Legalized pot, let's see what it does to the cartels. Damn, tax the hell out of it, what a great idea. I'm sure pot does nothing but good for the user.

Make testosterone more easily available but tax the hell out of it. A multi-billion dollar industry. Actually, should invest in the company's that make pharm test.

[Proximal]

Sorry, the jury is still out for me regarding the gender confusion issues. They have my sympathy, but not really my support. I'm leaning towards HMB with this one.

[SocioMachiavelli]

That's just phsycological masturbation.

A man wanting to be a woman is not a medical condition.

They will not die if they don't become a woman.

A trt patient is a medical condition though. Living with low T can have serious deleterious effects and even fatal effects on the body.

Let's just clear that up, ok?

It's a diagnosed psychiatric condition in the DSM 5 and 1000's worldwide experience it...... DSM 5 > Your opinion. Ok?

Also some people do die from the mental distress it causes via suicide. Mental health problems result in death too, not just medical ones.

HMB, If someone has Low test then yes they need the trt..... if they don't, they want it not need it and since it's only used for medical or psychiatric conditions in the US.... why would a doctor give it to someone who wants to be bigger. If they have body dysmorphia and want to be bigger, psychotherapy and discipline can address that. What you will find is that no matter how big some guys get, they will always see themselves as small or have a distorted perception of their size.

So for the sake of argument..... if a doctor could prescribe somebody with BDD test to get bigger.... they start getting bigger but still continue to see themselves as small..... what does the doc do? keep upping the dose until they end up in a zipper bag? it doesn't correct the perceptual problem or obsession. in short, the problem and psychological distress remains.

[SocioMachiavelli]

Legalized pot, let's see what it does to the cartels. Damn, tax the hell out of it, what a great idea. I'm sure pot does nothing but good for the user.

Make testosterone more easily available but tax the hell out of it. A multi-billion dollar industry. Actually, should invest in the company's that make pharm test.

I work in psychiatry, Cannabis can cause anxiety, paranoia and psychosis in those who are susceptible to it.

Even Joe Rogan who is an advocate of pot said on his podcast that it makes him "anxious as fuck". There is no such thing as a drug that only does good for 100% of it's users.

[HoldMyBeer]

If a woman feels that they are a man in a woman's body to the extent that it is causing them so much distress in their life.... their only option is to have the surgery and the hormones. A lot of people with gender identity issues can experience mental trauma, suicidal ideation or completing of suicide which > side effects.

People with body dysmorphia, which is closely related to OCD.... one of the most effective way to treat that is with a psychotherapy because once they correct one issue with their appearance will then often move onto another body part that they may wish to change (with true BDD). So this will just become a perpetual cyclical.

If you are low on test..... then absolutely you need it. If you're not you want it..... because it's a shortcut and people don't want to put the work or discipline in naturally first... which is their choice. But it's not a need, it's a want.

I am trying to keep this, not-a-social-issue, but a philosophical one. So I would prefer to avoid going any further down that road.
So, at a high level: I am asking if there is really a big difference between: women wanting to have masculine features, male wanting to have feminine features, (there's lots of permutations, let's not list them all) or a male wanting to have more masculine features.
You can say men having 3-5 times + more testosterone than is natural is unhealthy. Is. a woman having 15-20 times + (normal natural test range for women is 15-70) the amount of testosterone not as unhealthy (not a doctor, idk)
If a woman wanting to be a male makes them happier with their body image, is a male being happier with their body image making them just as happy not warranted?

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[SocioMachiavelli]

100% correct and common in this world. It took me years to get approved for TRT and once I finally started HRT/TRT I was filled with anger and disgust with the medical com,unity since I asked about this years ago to my doc and they said they wont even run blood work for hormones, the only shit the medical community did for me was bullshit like cholesterol, blood lipids and glucose type shitt. Its laughable how long it took me to finally get on TRT

Another thing regarding WTM (women to men) I have met some of them before and interestingly enough they don't have access to their own blood work, the doc runs the bloods and they get weekly injections of 200mg cyp per week or every other week. I have asked them before how they got access to this and they said the "medical community" is in full support of this for them
Its fucking bullshit, if you're a man and you want to get your hormones in order you have a much harder time through the medical community and gear use is stigmatized, I would know when I started HRT/TRT my body changed, my workouts changed and best of all my fucking mind state changed and then thats when the haters started coming out in my life mentioning shit like "steroids" and other shit around me, fuck them I wouldn't change anything with my gear use these days

I 100% agree with you, that is complete bullshit. People who NEED testosterone like yourself should get it, as it has improved your quality of life and helped restore your bodies equilibrium. The discrimination you have faced compared to the individuals with GID issues is bullshit as well, IMO you should have as much right to treatment as anyone of them.

But people without hormone imbalances, who only want it to get bigger shouldn't be expecting to get it from a doctor.

[Gallowmere]

Legalized pot, let's see what it does to the cartels. Damn, tax the hell out of it, what a great idea. I'm sure pot does nothing but good for the user.

Make testosterone more easily available but tax the hell out of it. A multi-billion dollar industry. Actually, should invest in the company's that make pharm test.

Define “tax the hell out of it”. Pharma test is already expensive to the point where I use verified UGL for a good chunk of my TRT, and I have a script. Just gonna stockpile the pharma in case my UG source goes tits up one day.

[SocioMachiavelli]

I am trying to keep this, not-a-social-issue, but a philosophical one. So I would prefer to avoid going any further down that road.
So, at a high level: I am asking if there is really a big difference between: women wanting to have masculine features, male wanting to have feminine features, (there's lots of permutations, let's not list them all) or a male wanting to have more masculine features.
You can say men having 3-5 times + more testosterone than is natural is unhealthy. Is. a woman having 15-20 times + (normal natural test range for women is 15-70) the amount of testosterone not as unhealthy (not a doctor, idk)
If a woman wanting to be a male makes them happier with their body image, is a male being happier with their body image making them just as happy not warranted?

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They identify as a man in a woman's body..... they need for their sanity to be a man.... not have muscles like one but BE a man. They can only achieve that by hormones and surgery.... to become an actual man.

You are a man.... any man that does not have a hormone imbalance can improve their physique which I'm assuming is what you mean by body image? because if you're an ugly fker..... you're still going to be an ugly fker.... that won't change. You can go to the gym, be disciplined, not eat shit and work your ass off....you'll become more "manly". Instead of wanting a doctor to give you a shortcut, if you want a shortcut that's up to you to obtain via other means, but not a docs responsibility. Unless you have a hormonal imbalance that needs correcting.

Like I explained, people with actual BDD or muscle dysmorphia will continue to experience obsessive thoughts despite their changes because it is their distorted perception or low self esteem that needs to be addressed. I'm sure there are still guys on here that used to be really skinny fuckers.....who are now a lot, lot bigger..... yet it still isn't enough for them. so the drugs didn't fix the problem.... So what would it achieve.... the feelings of inadequacy would remain and more health problems be engendered.

Does that make sense?

[EDCG19]

I work in psychiatry, Cannabis can cause anxiety, paranoia and psychosis in those who are susceptible to it.

Even Joe Rogan who is an advocate of pot said on his podcast that it makes him "anxious as fuck". There is no such thing as a drug that only does good for 100% of it's users.

Yes I have experience with this and that's what it did for me now some of the paranoia may be good but it depends
I'm trying to quit but tbh I only use cannabis is social situations and not a daily cannabis user

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[EDCG19]

I 100% agree with you, that is complete bullshit. People who NEED testosterone like yourself should get it, as it has improved your quality of life and helped restore your bodies equilibrium. The discrimination you have faced compared to the individuals with GID issues is bullshit as well, IMO you should have as much right to treatment as anyone of them.

But people without hormone imbalances, who only want it to get bigger shouldn't be expecting to get it from a doctor.

Yes I understand. The thing is in the medical profession they should be there to help people by maintaining hormonal balance since its key to mental health and life in general
When I finally found out about HRT clinics my total test was in the mid 100s when they ran the blood work and I basically knew might as well give it a try

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[HoldMyBeer]

They identify as a man in a woman's body..... they need for their sanity to be a man.... not have muscles like one but BE a man. They can only achieve that by hormones and surgery.... to become an actual man.

You are a man.... any man that does not have a hormone imbalance can improve their physique which I'm assuming is what you mean by body image? because if you're an ugly fker..... you're still going to be an ugly fker.... that won't change. You can go to the gym, be disciplined, not eat shit and work your ass off....you'll become more "manly". Instead of wanting a doctor to give you a shortcut, if you want a shortcut that's up to you to obtain via other means, but not a docs responsibility. Unless you have a hormonal imbalance that needs correcting.

Like I explained, people with actual BDD or muscle dysmorphia will continue to experience obsessive thoughts despite their changes because it is their distorted perception or low self esteem that needs to be addressed. I'm sure there are still guys on here that used to be really skinny fuckers.....who are now a lot, lot bigger..... yet it still isn't enough for them. so the drugs didn't fix the problem.... but they may have contributed to health problems.

Does that make sense?

I don't think we are going to get anywhere. I think we should figuratively shake hands and respectfully move on. To continue with this discussion we would have to bring up touchy subjects that I am not willing to go in to (we will leave that for the Twitter trolls), nor was it the spirit of this thread (which was equal access to hormone treatment).

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[SocioMachiavelli]

I don't think we are going to get anywhere. I think we should figuratively shake hands and respectfully move on. To continue with this discussion we would have to bring up touchy subjects that I am not willing to go in to (we will leave that for the Twitter trolls), nor was it the spirit of this thread (which was equal access to hormone treatment).

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I think that there is a difference between individuals who need to be the opposite sex to have any quality of life who can only achieve this with hormones and an operation when compared to men without hormone imbalances who can become more manly without a prescription.

*shakes hand*

[SocioMachiavelli]

Yes I have experience with this and that's what it did for me now some of the paranoia may be good but it depends
I'm trying to quit but tbh I only use cannabis is social situations and not a daily cannabis user

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Please be careful with it. Some people can smoke it regularly and be fine, but others.... I'd hate for it to fk you up.

[Proximal]

I work in psychiatry, Cannabis can cause anxiety, paranoia and psychosis in those who are susceptible to it.

Even Joe Rogan who is an advocate of pot said on his podcast that it makes him "anxious as fuck". There is no such thing as a drug that only does good for 100% of it's users.

I was being sarcastic, of course it is not all positive. Yet it is becoming more & more legal. And of course lets not forget alcohol & tobacco. I have been in the medical profession for 35 years & have a fair amount of background.

I apologize for introducing some unrelated and convoluted points. I was in pain, in the waiting room, waiting to see my MD and do some dry needling.

I think my point is, perhaps it’s time we consider getting some PEDs out of the shadows, destigmatize them and consider making them legal as well. I still have a bitter taste in my mouth regarding the questions & tone I got from my endocrinologist regarding getting TRT.

[SocioMachiavelli]

I was being sarcastic, of course it is not all positive. Yet it is becoming more & more legal. And of course lets not forget alcohol & tobacco. I have been in the medical profession for 35 years & have a fair amount of background.

I apologize for introducing some unrelated and convoluted points. I was in pain, in the waiting room, waiting to see my MD and do some dry needling.

I think my point is, perhaps it’s time we consider getting some PEDs out of the shadows, destigmatize them and consider making them legal as well. I still have a bitter taste in my mouth regarding the questions & tone I got from my endocrinologist regarding getting TRT.

Don't apologise.... thats my bad I'm sleep deprived so not quite with it.

In the UK over here we can use Anabolics legally, just not distribute them. I'd personally seek out a new Endo

[Proximal]

Define “tax the hell out of it”. Pharma test is already expensive to the point where I use verified UGL for a good chunk of my TRT, and I have a script. Just gonna stockpile the pharma in case my UG source goes tits up one day.

I did a quick check at Webster’s and came up dry, lol so I’ll offer this.

I was paying 250/month for a 3 month supply of needles and testosterone. I now pay $35 every 3 month. Was I unusual & too casual with my money? The line was out the door at that clinic and MANY others like it. They were selling sermorelin for an additional 100 per month & it was selling like hot-cakes (could you imagine if they could sell hgh legally at that clinic)?

Point is, that’s over $200 per month I was willing to spend on my TRT compared to now.

Legalize it & GH, tax it, and use the $ for something good. Although, I’m waiting to see where all the tax money from pot out here in California has gone & what it has paid for, lol.

[Proximal]

Don't apologise.... thats my bad I'm sleep deprived so not quite with it.

In the UK over here we can use Anabolics legally, just not distribute them. I'd personally seek out a new Endo

No, we’re cool now (the endo & me). Like I said, in the profession as is my wife - she actually got me the referral with the top/head of dept. I just thought I’d get a tad bit more professional courtesy & she really busted my balls. That was actually after she squeezed the atrophied little fellas.

Always a pleasure exchanging posts with you. Sorry again if I came off grumpy, pain is an ass-kicker.

Hey and HMB, sorry if I sent your thread in another direction.

[Couchlockd]

Please be careful with it. Some people can smoke it regularly and be fine, but others.... I'd hate for it to fk you up.

Dude I don't get how you can be in any medical or phsycu field and be so nieve and uneducated on cannabis.

"Hope you don't smoke it and it fucks you up".

Lord.thats your answer to every time legalization or medical cannabis is spoke about.

It has it's place, temporary anxiety is a acute short lived side effect.

We have alcohol and tobacco legal.

Both will 100% without a doubt kill you with regular consumption over time.

Both will produce violent withdrawal and possibly violent behavior during withdrawal.

Alcohol withdrawal can kill you. One if the few substances out there that stopping usage will kill you.

Heroin withdrawal won't even kill you.

We have opiates being used when medically deemed necessary, side effects are terrible if not used to them

Vomiting
Agression.

But the benifit of these drugs out weight the risk

So consuming some cannabis may make you paranoid for a half hour or so.

I know you say you've treated people who have terrible episodes after using cannabis. But these people I guarantee are already on anti psychotics, depression, or anxiety drugs and have underlying mental disorders. One of the classic symptoms of mental disorders is placing blame on anyone bor anything other than taking responsibility for ones actions. It's always someone else's fault.

Cannabis seems to be a perfect scape goat to blame for some nut cases irrational behavior.

[EDCG19]

Dude I don't get how you can be in any medical or phsycu field and be so nieve and uneducated on cannabis.

"Hope you don't smoke it and it fucks you up".

Lord.thats your answer to every time legalization or medical cannabis is spoke about.
.

I understand where you're coming from but as someone who does use cannabis occasionally this shit can fuck up your mental state. It doesn't always happen but sometimes you may have a very, very bad trip (bad trips when you're realizing or thinking about something and it fucks with your mood) and it takes all my power to not come home jump on this board and just start ranting and raving about shit that would probably make me seem like a raving madman screaming at the sky... Hate to say this but weed just isn't for everyone ( I still use it though just not often and I try to control it)
Now scotch or whiskey or even beer has a different effect on me but I also have to be honest here I take edibles when I'm around others and we would usually take way too much something like 30-50mg is too much for me
You're taking highly concentrated THC and this shit hits people in different ways but I'm still pro legalization because people pretty much can decide for themselves what they want to take

[Couchlockd]

I understand where you're coming from but as someone who does use cannabis occasionally this shit can fuck up your mental state. It doesn't always happen but sometimes you may have a very, very bad trip (bad trips when you're realizing or thinking about something and it fucks with your mood) and it takes all my power to not come home jump on this board and just start ranting and raving about shit that would probably make me seem like a raving madman screaming at the sky... Hate to say this but weed just isn't for everyone ( I still use it though just not often and I try to control it)
Now scotch or whiskey or even beer has a different effect on me but I also have to be honest here I take edibles when I'm around others and we would usually take way too much something like 30-50mg is too much for me
You're taking highly concentrated THC and this shit hits people in different ways but I'm still pro legalization because people pretty much can decide for themselves what they want to take

I get that. I've experienced it as well.

But if someone ends up harming themselves or others because of weed. Then they likely would without weed as well.

[EDCG19]

I get that. I've experienced it as well.

But if someone ends up harming themselves or others because of weed. Then they likely would without weed as well.

Agreed on that note

[HoldMyBeer]

No, we’re cool now (the endo & me). Like I said, in the profession as is my wife - she actually got me the referral with the top/head of dept. I just thought I’d get a tad bit more professional courtesy & she really busted my balls. That was actually after she squeezed the atrophied little fellas.

Always a pleasure exchanging posts with you. Sorry again if I came off grumpy, pain is an ass-kicker.

Hey and HMB, sorry if I sent your thread in another direction.

No worries man. I always enjoy the banter. That's what the lounge is for!
As for your point about marijuana, it became a problem for me (and led me into other drugs because the high was quickly not enough). It only lead to depression, anxiety, etc. People don't realize, (and the number changes from source to source) over 5% of the american population has issues with addiction. A even larger percentage experience depression, insomnia, anxiety, etc. with the prolonged use of marijuana. All the arguments FOR legalizing marijuana were crap. I am not against it being legalized, but lets just call it what it is. It is harmless for the majority of the population, it is a popular recreational activity, and there are worse things out there.

[KennyJ]

No worries man. I always enjoy the banter. That's what the lounge is for!
As for your point about marijuana, it became a problem for me (and led me into other drugs because the high was quickly not enough). It only lead to depression, anxiety, etc. People don't realize, (and the number changes from source to source) over 5% of the american population has issues with addiction. A even larger percentage experience depression, insomnia, anxiety, etc. with the prolonged use of marijuana. All the arguments FOR legalizing marijuana were crap. I am not against it being legalized, but lets just call it what it is. It is harmless for the majority of the population, it is a popular recreational activity, and there are worse things out there.

Definitely less harmful than alcohol but thankfully I never liked it. I have a friend who loves to smoke before he lifts. I would hate to see myself attempting to lift after smoking. I would definitely think that every person in there would know what I had done and I would think they were all staring at me lol.

[SocioMachiavelli]

Dude I don't get how you can be in any medical or phsycu field and be so nieve and uneducated on cannabis.

"Hope you don't smoke it and it fucks you up".

Lord.thats your answer to every time legalization or medical cannabis is spoke about.

It has it's place, temporary anxiety is a acute short lived side effect.

We have alcohol and tobacco legal.

Both will 100% without a doubt kill you with regular consumption over time.

Both will produce violent withdrawal and possibly violent behavior during withdrawal.

Alcohol withdrawal can kill you. One if the few substances out there that stopping usage will kill you.

Heroin withdrawal won't even kill you.

We have opiates being used when medically deemed necessary, side effects are terrible if not used to them

Vomiting
Agression.

But the benifit of these drugs out weight the risk

So consuming some cannabis may make you paranoid for a half hour or so.

I know you say you've treated people who have terrible episodes after using cannabis. But these people I guarantee are already on anti psychotics, depression, or anxiety drugs and have underlying mental disorders. One of the classic symptoms of mental disorders is placing blame on anyone bor anything other than taking responsibility for ones actions. It's always someone else's fault.

Cannabis seems to be a perfect scape goat to blame for some nut cases irrational behavior.

First of all..... If you read my post I said some people can smoke it and be fine..... but there are those that are susceptible to mental illness who it can cause anxiety, psychosis and depression in.

Everybody has different numbers of neurotransmitters, receptors etc... which is why drugs effect people differently. On the subject of alcohol, tobacco, prescription pain meds... I think they are all poison....just like cannabis can be to some people. One man's cure is another mans poison. They are all problems in society, you just happen to be an advocate for one of them.

The problem is people who use it themselves, see very little side effects between them and their buddies then profess it's safety for everyone. That is where the danger comes from. I used to smoke and it messed me up for days..... my friend smokes it and he's always fine.

The reason how I can work in a health field whilst having this stance on cannabis? It's because I look at the evidence, I listen to patients experiences and my views are not purely based on the fact I like smoking it. Neither do I try to make cannabis look good by pointing out all the negatives of other substances in society

as for "One of the classic symptoms of mental disorders is placing blame on anyone bor anything other than taking responsibility for ones actions. It's always someone else's fault." --- I would fkin love you to back that statement up with some real scientific evidence other than your opinion, I've read some shit in my time but that just cracked my top 3

and No..... dont find one mental disorder, cover them all like the statement you just made. Does every "normal person" honestly not at some point try to lay the blame at somebody elses feet? or is that just people with mental disorders?

[Couchlockd]

First of all..... If you read my post I said some people can smoke it and be fine..... but there are those that are susceptible to mental illness who it can cause anxiety, psychosis and depression in.

Everybody has different numbers of neurotransmitters, receptors etc... which is why drugs effect people differently. On the subject of alcohol, tobacco, prescription pain meds... I think they are all poison....just like cannabis can be to some people. One man's cure is another mans poison. They are all problems in society, you just happen to be an advocate for one of them.

The problem is people who use it themselves, see very little side effects between them and their buddies then profess it's safety for everyone. That is where the danger comes from. I used to smoke and it messed me up for days..... my friend smokes it and he's always fine.

The reason how I can work in a health field whilst having this stance on cannabis? It's because I look at the evidence, I listen to patients experiences and my views are not purely based on the fact I like smoking it. Neither do I try to make cannabis look good by pointing out all the negatives of other substances in society

as for "One of the classic symptoms of mental disorders is placing blame on anyone bor anything other than taking responsibility for ones actions. It's always someone else's fault." --- I would fkin love you to back that statement up with some real scientific evidence other than your opinion, I've read some shit in my time but that just cracked my top 3

and No..... dont find one mental disorder, cover them all like the statement you just made. Does every "normal person" honestly not at some point try to lay the blame at somebody elses feet? or is that just people with mental disorders?

Your right, I'm wrong.

Weed is toxic poison.

Care to back that up with evidence?