Need advise about HRT...Johnnyb, Bask8kace,etc..Dr. wants bloodwork!!!

[BUYLONGTERM]

Well, now I'm screwed. I'm in the middle of my cycle and today (while getting my hrt shot) my dr. says he wants me to read an article about prostate cancer and testosterone. Bottom line is he wants me to give me blook work in a week to check levels and check my prostate!!! If I do that, It's going to show my levels are through the roof!!! What should I do? I can stall a few weeks, but I would have to stop my cycle today which would really suck!!!

1. Do I stop my testosertone for the next 2 weeks?
2. What would my levels be at in only 2 weeks?
3. If I do, I guess I could restart my cycle with some prop until the Enan kicks back in.

[LightWeightBaby]

hmmmm wow that is really tuff, sorry you are in that situation, I think if you stopped your testosterone you would still have high levels. So your doctor thinks that you really need HRT???? I do not know what to tell you bud that is tough situation you are in.

[BUYLONGTERM]

He basically said he wanted to do it in a week because if we waited longer, it obviously would show them really low and if we did it immediately, it would show them high. So, since I get a shot E2Wks, he went for somewhere in the middle....

[LightWeightBaby]

well stopping the test will make your test level lower a little, but they will still be very high, so i do not really even recomend that. So you are taking an additional test besides the one given to you for HRT???

[BUYLONGTERM]

well stopping the test will make your test level lower a little, but they will still be very high, so i do not really even recomend that. So you are taking an additional test besides the one given to you for HRT???

yes, I get 200mg every 2 weeks from him, and with my cycle I'm doing around 400-500mg. So, I make up the differences.

[Rickson]

I would stop what you are doing other than the HRT. At two weeks you should be on the lower side of most long esters. Postpone the test one week. Since you are on HRT you are going to be able to keep your gains and while the hormone rollercoaster kind of sucks it isn't a major deal unless you have a competition. Remember that you have a medical condition and since your natural test levels will be nothing then you shouldn't have a problem continuing therapy. It is probably a good thing getting the other bloodwork and prostate test done. If it becomes a problem get a new doc since you have already been diagnosed it will be much easier to find someone else.

[LightWeightBaby]

I would stop what you are doing other than the HRT. At two weeks you should be on the lower side of most long esters. Postpone the test one week. Since you are on HRT you are going to be able to keep your gains and while the hormone rollercoaster kind of sucks it isn't a major deal unless you have a competition. Remember that you have a medical condition and since your natural test levels will be nothing then you shouldn't have a problem continuing therapy. It is probably a good thing getting the other bloodwork and ...prostate test done. If it becomes a problem get a new doc since you have already been diagnosed it will be much easier to find someone else.

that is some good advie, your could tell your doc you are using steroids on the side but I think all that would make him do is he would take you off HRT. Go with what rickson says and hope for the best and by the best I mean less test.

[BUYLONGTERM]

that is some good advie, your could tell your doc you are using steroids on the side but I think all that would make him do is he would take you off HRT. Go with what rickson says and hope for the best and by the best I mean less test.

Yeah, Rickson gave good advise. He already knows I did a cycle, but if he knew I was doing another one, I'd be in big ****!!!! As long as I will be on the low side, then I will stop for 2 weeks, get blood work done, and I can start the cycle back up again right after that. I just want to make sure my levels aren't through the roof because then he will say the 200mg I'm giving you is to much, I also think I will get some prop so it will help me kick start it up again. As of today, this week (I already gave myself a shot of 300mg, I forgot my appt was today or I would of waited till later on in the week) I have about 500mg running through me. This is definitely a buz kill for my cycle!!!

[Prot]

My advice..don't go to the doctor again...the latest study published in NEJournal of Med shows no increase in prostate cancer from HRT. Its cheaper to treat yourself than go to the doctor anyway... Just do your own injections and on heavier cycles up the dosage as you are now. Too many problems with these quacks.

[JohnnyB]

Bro I'd stop today as mentioned, just tell him you can't make it in a week but you'll be able to in 3 weeks, 1 week after your HRT shot. If you hit the link in my sig you can figure out when it'll typer out to your hrt doses.

Do you think he is suspicious that you are cycling?

JohnnyB

[sp9]

Interesting situation. Although I have to say it must be nice to have a doctor that initiates tests and preventitive medicine. I have not seen my doctor in 5 years. If I am sick I get to see the nurse practioner. No consultations with the doctor, no emphasis on regular physicals or blood tests.

I like the advice to postpose with the doc and just do it a week after your next injection with your doctor while stopping your supplemental black market injections.

[BASK8KACE]

BLT,

You might be at the lower end of most long esters after 3 weeks, but the blood work--even after 3 weeks of waiting--may still show high testosterone levels.

I have personal experience with this situation. I hope the following helps you:


I was using lower doses than BLT during my cycle and I have the same condition as he--hypogonadism (low natural test levels). I ended my cycle a bit over three weeks before my blood tests. My testosterone levels were still incredibly high, despite having waited those 3 weeks off-cycle. Apparently, our blood levels don't normalize at the rates we commonly refer to when deciding when to start PCT (Post-cycle Therapy, such as clomid). My doctor of course asked about this. Anyway...

BLT, you are in control of your health services. Although some doctors with G-d complexes may think otherwise. Here's what you do...

Read the information he has given you. Read other information on the web, etcetera. Return to his office, have a discussion with your doctor about what you read, and ask question IF YOU HAVE THEM--don't make up fake questions (trust me on this). Just be natural. Then politely thank your doctor for his concern--even commend him if you wish. Then tell him that you have decided to wait a bit longer to think about this. Most men are a bit afraid to have that area probed anyway, so he may or may not assume that that's part of your hesitation. If you feel comfortable letting him believe that, go for it. If he pushes you, put your foot down. Tell him you do not want to feel rushed and that you will talk to him more when you feel comfortable about it.

You've only been on HRT for a relatively short time. It is possible, but unlikely that you've developed anything to be worried about in this short period of time. (Remember, I'm not a medical professional. This paragraph is based only on common sense).

It's paramount that you stand your ground. Don't let him force you.

I doubt that he will threaten to stop the HRT. If he does, remind him calmly what suddenly ending HRT could do to you physically and psychologically--throw you into depression, make you sluggish, etc. No matter what, be thankful that you have an attentive, concerned doctor.

Finally, you should have blood work done regularly (that's a no brainer). When you've finished your cycle, and taken about 6 weeks off, go get your prostate checked and your blood levels done then--IF YOU DECIDE NOT TO DO IT NOW. Please understand, what I've written above is a suggesion on how to handle your doctor if YOU decide not to take the prostate exam now. I am in NO way encouraging you to put off your prostate exam or your blood work. The choice whether to have your prostate exam and blood work done sooner or later has to be your choice alone--no one esle's.

If you need any more help with this, you know how to find me.

All my best to you, bro.

BASK8KACE

[BUYLONGTERM]

My advice..don't go to the doctor again...the latest study published in NEJournal of Med shows no increase in prostate cancer from HRT. Its cheaper to treat yourself than go to the doctor anyway... Just do your own injections and on heavier cycles up the dosage as you are now. Too many problems with these quacks.

Thats exactly where the study came from!!!!

[BUYLONGTERM]

BLT,

You might be at the lower end of most long esters after 3 weeks, but the blood work--even after 3 weeks of waiting--may still show high testosterone levels.

I have personal experience with this situation. I hope the following helps you:


I was using lower doses than BLT during my cycle and I have the same condition as he--hypogonadism (low natural test levels). I ended my cycle a bit over three weeks before my blood tests. My testosterone levels were still incredibly high, despite having waited those 3 weeks off-cycle. Apparently, our blood levels don't normalize at the rates we commonly refer to when deciding when to start PCT (Post-cycle Therapy, such as clomid). My doctor of course asked about this. Anyway...

BLT, you are in control of your health services. Although some doctors with G-d complexes may think otherwise. Here's what you do...

Read the information he has given you. Read other information on the web, etcetera. Return to his office, have a discussion with your doctor about what you read, and ask question IF YOU HAVE THEM--don't make up fake questions (trust me on this). Just be natural. Then politely thank your doctor for his concern--even commend him if you wish. Then tell him that you have decided to wait a bit longer to think about this. Most men are a bit afraid to have that area probed anyway, so he may or may not assume that that's part of your hesitation. If you feel comfortable letting him believe that, go for it. If he pushes you, put your foot down. Tell him you do not want to feel rushed and that you will talk to him more when you feel comfortable about it.

You've only been on HRT for a relatively short time. It is possible, but unlikely that you've developed anything to be worried about in this short period of time. (Remember, I'm not a medical professional. This paragraph is based only on common sense).

It's paramount that you stand your ground. Don't let him force you.

I doubt that he will threaten to stop the HRT. If he does, remind him calmly what suddenly ending HRT could do to you physically and psychologically--throw you into depression, make you sluggish, etc. No matter what, be thankful that you have an attentive, concerned doctor.

Finally, you should have blood work done regularly (that's a no brainer). When you've finished your cycle, and taken about 6 weeks off, go get your prostate checked and your blood levels done then--IF YOU DECIDE NOT TO DO IT NOW. Please understand, what I've written above is a suggesion on how to handle your doctor if YOU decide not to take the prostate exam now. I am in NO way encouraging you to put off your prostate exam or your blood work. The choice whether to have your prostate exam and blood work done sooner or later has to be your choice alone--no one esle's.

If you need any more help with this, you know how to find me.

All my best to you, bro.

BASK8KACE

Wow, thank you sooo much!!!!! I think he just wants my blood levels and I think there is some blood work to to check my prostate. NOWAY am I getting probed right now. I don't think thats what he meant. I have the test he wants me to take at home, so when I get home, I can post it. I will reply back shortly. Also, I will post the study once I get it. He was suppose to fax it to my work today.

When I talked with him, I said of course there are negative side effects, but there are also studies showing the positive effects as well. He said "yes" of course, but in today's world where Dr.'s are constantly getting sued, He said he has to let me know the negatives. I totally understand where he's coming from. I also asked him about some HCG. He obviously knows nothing about it. He said, Let me do some research and I will get back to you. I looked at him said, OK, but I know I'm right...I smiled. I also said I want to be able to give myself my own shots and he said "let me think about it".

[Prot]

The only blood test for prostate is the PSA(Prostate Specific Antigen) and its wildly unreliable. I knew a guy they were treating for cancer based on this test and he took a month off work and everything. Finally found it he had nothing... Stay away from these quacks.

[crimson55]

BLT,

Another idea if you're concerned that you T levels will be too high when you go for your blood work...do the opposite to naturally increase levels...
For example,
1-Begin overtraining a couple of weeks before the test;
2-Start doing intense cardio daily
3-Reduce your sleep per night by a couple of hours
4-Get really hammered the night before the test

Just an idea if you really need to...

[Ntpadude]

Thats exactly where the study came from!!!!

WHen I last saw my doctor, the most he was interested in was how am I peeing, just asked me if I thought I adequately empty my bladder out sufficiently, any difficulty urinating, etc. He is a pretty with it doctor and is willing to put me on HRT/TRT but we suggested I try this newly available in USA but known about in china for 2000 years, this chinese herbal called tongkat ali and he also told me the herb dramatically lowers sex hormone binding globulins and at same time increases lutenizing hormones so the effect is, your testosterone levels go up 450% but your free testosterone goes up 1000%. He told me quite honestly tongkat could raise my blood testosterone up to triple the legally allowed limit for HRT and yet the tongkat has less problems with estrogen conversion, blood pressure or other side effects of injected testosterone.

Anyways to make a long story short, I am in week #5 of tongkat ali.... I am getting the feeling almost identical to when testosterone enanthate at 500 mg a week was starting to kick in on week #4. I am gaining muscle mass (even though I have really been laying off my workout regiment since I PCT'd 6 weeks ago), body fat is lowering, I am getting night sweats every night, insomnia, big time increase in aggressiveness - actually I have been more roid-raged and aggressive then I was when I was on my 500 mg a week steroid cycle, horniness like you wouldnt believe but it is nice to have this hornyness with big and healthy balls instead of the shrivelled raisins I had when on-cycle. All the effects are reminiscent of the kick in of a steroid cycle except instead of sleepiness, I am like overwealmed with energy and vigor. Cant sit still, just steaming with energy almost like I am constantly on speed, feeling of well being is actually better then I had on steroids. I am going to get another blood test next month. I was reading from some studies from the University of Japan that subjects on tongkat ali after 2 months had blood testosterone levels of 2700 and phenominally high free testosterone and very low estrogen conversion whereas a similar test group was given 600 mg a week of testosterone injections over the same period, the injected individuals had blood testosterone levels averaging 2600, very high estrogen conversion and less then 1/10th the amount of free testosterone. Hopefully I'll get a really good perspective on how high the testosterone level is going in my body as I should be about 12 weeks into tongkat ali when I get the next labs done.

[BUYLONGTERM]

WHen I last saw my doctor, the most he was interested in was how am I peeing, just asked me if I thought I adequately empty my bladder out sufficiently, any difficulty urinating, etc. He is a pretty with it doctor and is willing to put me on HRT/TRT but we suggested I try this newly available in USA but known about in china for 2000 years, this chinese herbal called tongkat ali and he also told me the herb dramatically lowers sex hormone binding globulins and at same time increases lutenizing hormones so the effect is, your testosterone levels go up 450% but your free testosterone goes up 1000%. He told me quite honestly tongkat could raise my blood testosterone up to triple the legally allowed limit for HRT and yet the tongkat has less problems with estrogen conversion, blood pressure or other side effects of injected testosterone.

Anyways to make a long story short, I am in week #5 of tongkat ali.... I am getting the feeling almost identical to when testosterone enanthate at 500 mg a week was starting to kick in on week #4. I am gaining muscle mass (even though I have really been laying off my workout regiment since I PCT'd 6 weeks ago), body fat is lowering, I am getting night sweats every night, insomnia, big time increase in aggressiveness - actually I have been more roid-raged and aggressive then I was when I was on my 500 mg a week steroid cycle, horniness like you wouldnt believe but it is nice to have this hornyness with big and healthy balls instead of the shrivelled raisins I had when on-cycle. All the effects are reminiscent of the kick in of a steroid cycle except instead of sleepiness, I am like overwealmed with energy and vigor. Cant sit still, just steaming with energy almost like I am constantly on speed, feeling of well being is actually better then I had on steroids. I am going to get another blood test next month. I was reading from some studies from the University of Japan that subjects on tongkat ali after 2 months had blood testosterone levels of 2700 and phenominally high free testosterone and very low estrogen conversion whereas a similar test group was given 600 mg a week of testosterone injections over the same period, the injected individuals had blood testosterone levels averaging 2600, very high estrogen conversion and less then 1/10th the amount of free testosterone. Hopefully I'll get a really good perspective on how high the testosterone level is going in my body as I should be about 12 weeks into tongkat ali when I get the next labs done.

Very intersting? You've got to be kidding me? I'm going to start researching that ASAP. Thanks for the info!

The test my Dr. wants to do is a CPC and PSA for my prostate. The article is being faxed to me right now. I'm not sure if I even want to read it.

If anyone has any studies or articles showing the benefits of Testosterone, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to bring them to my dr.

[tryingtogetbig]

I just did a search on "tongkat ali"...it called it "Long Jack" also...stuff showed up everywhere about it. When did I miss this stuff starting to get popular?

peace,

ttgb

[tryingtogetbig]

Sorry for hijacking your thread BLT...

[usualsuspect]

If anyone has any studies or articles showing the benefits of Testosterone, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to bring them to my dr.

http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...t=testosterone

[toolman]

BLT enter tesosterone and prostate on your search engine and you will get a ton of articles.

After reading though most enough of them to get dizzy, you will find that firstly, there is a large school of thought that higher levels of testosterone actually prevents prostate cancer as is indicated in the average population that suffers from it, older men with lower test counts, not younger men.

This said, there seems to be no arguement in the medical community that if you have prostate cancer, nothing could be worse for you than testosterone as it is proven to make the cancer grow. That is why most MD's believe HRT is bad for the prostate. It is, but only if you are at risk or have/had prostate cancer.

My MD friend told me that before he puts anyone on HRT, he makes sure there is no prostate cancer and he will even refuse to put patients on it if there is any history of prostate cancer in the family. However, with no history, and no family history, then you are a solid candidate.

[tbrocato]

Very intersting? You've got to be kidding me? I'm going to start researching that ASAP. Thanks for the info!

The test my Dr. wants to do is a CPC and PSA for my prostate. The article is being faxed to me right now. I'm not sure if I even want to read it.

If anyone has any studies or articles showing the benefits of Testosterone, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to bring them to my dr.

I am just wondering why your having problems....is it becuase you juiced at a young age and your normal test levels now or messed up ?

[BUYLONGTERM]

I am just wondering why your having problems....is it becuase you juiced at a young age and your normal test levels now or messed up ?

Actually no. I didn't do my first cycle till the age of 35. I grew up with low test levels and when I got into my 30's, my energy level, my concentration, sex drive, etc...was even worse. When I finally did a low dose cycle of Test, my entire life change. Thats when I decided to talk with my dr. After PCT, and 4 months later, I was back to being my sluggish, lazy self. I had my levels check and they were low.

[Ntpadude]

I just did a search on "tongkat ali"...it called it "Long Jack" also...stuff showed up everywhere about it. When did I miss this stuff starting to get popular?

ttgb

Actually this stuff is brand new to the United States. Its been known about in Asia for thousands of years. What is really impressive is the currently underway studies by MIT that appear to suggest the testosterone boosting and SHBG reducing qualities of tongkat ali actually if taken long enough permanently up tunes your HTPA to continue making extra testosterone and the free testosterone can be achieved much higher then if you take real steroids so therefore a 6 month cycle on tongkat ali can be MUCH more anabolic to your body then doing a 6 month cycle on test cypionate, plus its just plain healthier, your penis and testicals do go into a mode of hypertropy or actually enlarging to bigger then your genetic code calls for and therefore hypertrophy of the testicles makes it easier for your body to produce larger amounts of testosterone and to maintain higher levels. It also has a healing effect on the hyperthalmus so it too will continue producing larger amounts of lutenizing hormone and growth hormone as well. Another side effect is lot of people on tongkat get energized, this is because adrenalin is another hormone released in greater abundance from the HTPA. In general tongkat "down regulates" your receptors making everything more responsive to hormones while at the same time causes you to produce "more" hormones, not just testosterone but all your hormones including adrenalin and growth hormone, IGF-1 and IGF2 all appear to increase their abundance approximately 300 to 450%. At the same time all these hormones are increasing "in a balanced state" together so bad effects on estrogen conversion, higher cholesterol or high blood pressure are much less severe, but on the other hand because you are feeling an increased jolt of adrenalin, nortestosterone, androsterones, IGF-1 and IGF-2, HGH and other hormones, you tend to have the impression that you are feeling a more powerful anabolic jolt then you would if you were just on say, a testosterone enanthate and deca durabolin cycle.

[johnsomebody]

Hey I agree with Bask8case entirely. It's YOUR BODY not your doctor's. If for any reason whatever you don't want a certain test you don't have to have it! And I personally don't think you owe your doctor any explanations if you want to put it off for a few months. I think you should have PSA checked regularly in any case -I certainly do, but not until long after a cycle. It's my understanding that gear can cause a false reading anyway.

Your doctor is there for you not vice versa, much as they like you to think otherwise. You're paying him, he's not paying you.

[BUYLONGTERM]

I've done a lot of thinking thanks to all of your advise,this is what I think. To be honest, Yes, I should have the test done, but not just a few months into my HRT treatment. I am going to tell him that my insurance will NOT cover another Testosterone test this quick since I just had one. I am going to tell him I read his article, and I understand the dangers, but I would like to get tested after 6 months. I think that will put him at bay for awhile.

[Ntpadude]

I've done a lot of thinking thanks to all of your advise,this is what I think. To be honest, Yes, I should have the test done, but not just a few months into my HRT treatment. I am going to tell him that my insurance will NOT cover another Testosterone test this quick since I just had one. I am going to tell him I read his article, and I understand the dangers, but I would like to get tested after 6 months. I think that will put him at bay for awhile.

It only takes 10 days to drop your testosterone levels back to where you should be with HRT and PSA wont hurt you at all. On the other hand unless you are over "40" its all a waste of time.

You can also go to this web site, www.allthingsmale.com, there is a doctor there that monitors your HRT via long distance but he can order your labs and such by remote. This doctor prefers you to take 100 mg per week rather then 200 mg every other week but hey those are just technicalities, but see in 2 weeks is too long because your test shot is exhausted basically in 10 days.

[johnsomebody]

If it were me I'd just say "I'd rather wait a few months for the tests, thanks anyway" and leave it at that. I don't think you owe him explanations or excuses. Then go ahead and schedule them now.

Just my .02!