PH vs. Juice

[MikeRazz]

since no one is commenting on my post earlier about stakabol, should i just scrap the PH and do the real deal? stats are :
age - 23
6'2"
206 lbs
BF % 16

[redz]

I won`t touch any ph myself. Just not worth it.

[MikeRazz]

finally a responder lol, why? the 3 compounds in stakabol are sdrol, hdrol, and tren i believe, could be wrong though...

[redz]

Just not enough info or research on them. Over all I have heard many people have problems with shut down and side effects like gyno from ph. I'd rather use a tried and tested product that may have sides but atleast I`ll know what to expect and how to control them.

[MikeRazz]

so if my goal is to get to 220-230 lbs 10% BF what would you suggest?

[redz]

Well have you cycled anything before?

[MikeRazz]

yes, ive done 2 cycles of PH's..one Size350 and one stakabol, got pretty decent results just had to deal with minor dizziness and shaky hands during cycle every once in a while. my only problem is once i cycled off i didnt lose my mass, maybe a pound or 2 but my strength went incredibly down...

[redz]

I think you would best be served to do a basic test E cycle and leave the pro-hormones alone. Alot of people say you shouldn`t start until 25 but you have already been messing with ph so I doubt it makes much difference anyways.

[MikeRazz]

is that like TRT?

[redz]

TRT is a permanent thing, I am sugesting a basic Test E cycle for 10-12 weeks followed by a proper pct.

[MikeRazz]

as well as some HCG...

[MikeRazz]

ok, not sure if im aloud to ask and if your aloud to say but where can i get that? also will arimedex suffice for PCT or should i try to get my hands on some nolva?

[redz]

Unfortunately can`t ask for sources on the open board, once you get 50 posts you can pm a willing mod or vet for a source check.

[MikeRazz]

alright, sorry about that. once i do get my hands on some, what should my cycle/dosage be for the test e? also cycle/dosage of SERM/PCT if needed? unless arimedex will suffice as a proper PCT, that i do have.

[redz]

adex is good to have on hand in case of estrogen sides. Keep reading and learn up and eventually I`m sure you will be able to secure a source just be cautious for now there are many scammers and it is always good to try and verify when you are ready. Test E is good at 400-500mg per week for 10-12 weeks followed by a clomid and nolva pct. HCG also helps too.

[MikeRazz]

cool bro, thank you very much for all the insight

[dec11]

AAS/been around along time, side effects are well documented and known. HG products are subject to stringent quality control

PH's/unregulated and untested, side effects unknown.


at your height and weight you could push out a bit more natty weight over the next 2yrs then maybe think about AAS then. good luck

[MikeRazz]

dec11 : i hear ya and i am in no rush to get massive overnight, my problem is over the last few months my strength has significantly gone down and cannot figure out why. My energy is starting to spiral down, and fatigue kicks in sooner than it should..any advice?

[dec11]

dec11 : i hear ya and i am in no rush to get massive overnight, my problem is over the last few months my strength has significantly gone down and cannot figure out why. My energy is starting to spiral down, and fatigue kicks in sooner than it should..any advice?

overtraining?
same old prog week in week out?
diet?
any outside stresses atm?

[MikeRazz]

i train 5-6 days a week, diet is high in protien about 200g's a day clean for the most part..no stress out of the norm i dont think anyway

[dec11]

i train 5-6 days a week, diet is high in protien about 200g's a day clean for the most part..no stress out of the norm i dont think anyway

for how long and how intense?

[MikeRazz]

initial test count came back at 240, i know incredibly low..and i try to go as intensely as i can everyday, some weeks ill drop my weight and increase my rep, some weeks ill lift as heavy as i can stand 6-8 reps, i have changed my routines 5 times this year and so far progress has been minimal

[redz]

Hopefully those ph you took aren`t causing you testosterone problems. If the problems persist you may want to get your hormone levels tested.

[MikeRazz]

i did TRT for about 4 months, the last PH cycle i did, unfortuantely did screw up my hormones i was put on 210mL of testosterone a week ( 1 injection ) toward the end of my treatment the doc put me on 8 weeks of HCG 25mL twice a week to ween me off the test, i have been done with the treatment for almost a month, had a blood draw 1 week ago, test count came back at 750 which is normal range for me so i am totally stumped at this point...

[dec11]

i did TRT for about 4 months, the last PH cycle i did, unfortuantely did screw up my hormones i was put on 210mL of testosterone a week ( 1 injection ) toward the end of my treatment the doc put me on 8 weeks of HCG 25mL twice a week to ween me off the test, i have been done with the treatment for almost a month, had a blood draw 1 week ago, test count came back at 750 which is normal range for me so i am totally stumped at this point...

what were the initial tests showing, for the doc to warrant that protocol?

[redz]

Seems strange for a doctor to give test to a 23 year old for 4 months.

[dec11]

Seems strange for a doctor to give test to a 23 year old for 4 months.

thats what i was thinking also

[MikeRazz]

i was getting the TRT at 'Mens Vitality Center'

[dec11]

i was getting the TRT at 'Mens Vitality Center'

a credible doc wouldnt be so quick to put a 23yr old on trt, i have to jump through hoops to get it at 36

should i go get tested by an endocronologist? and why is that strange? was it too long?

is this just one of these quack clinics set up with profit in mind more than ethics?

[MikeRazz]

a credible doc wouldnt be so quick to put a 23yr old on trt, i have to jump through hoops to get it at 36

is this just one of these quack clinics set up with profit in mind more than ethics?

i know they were charging my insurance company $160 per shot...

[FONZY007]

i was getting the TRT at 'Mens Vitality Center'

My doc made me wait 1 year and 6 months to be put on TRT.. My body rebounded a little bit, but the highest I got was 175 ng/ml which than he put me on TRT.

Wait to use for another 2 years, trust me. I started to use at 21 and now I have permanent low test levels.

P.s. go do what DEC is saying get more blood work done, I was getting blood work every 90 days at first!!

[dec11]

My doc made me wait 1 year and 6 months to be put on TRT.. My body rebounded a little bit, but the highest I got was 175 ng/ml which than he put me on TRT.

Wait to use for another 2 years, trust me. I started to use at 21 and now I have permanent low test levels.

P.s. go do what DEC is saying get more blood work done, I was getting blood work every 90 days at first!!

would you mind making other younger users aware of this mate, so they have all the facts? cheers

[FONZY007]

would you mind making other younger users aware of this mate, so they have all the facts? cheers

I do when I have the chance, I ****ed up cant go back now!! I respect you Dec, I read a lot of your post you know your shit!!

[MikeRazz]

should i go get tested by an endocronologist? and why is that strange? was it too long?

[Honkey_Kong]

should i go get tested by an endocronologist? and why is that strange? was it too long?

You should go see an endocrinologist because it isn't normal for somebody your age to be suffering from low test. There are a variety of things that COULD cause your problem and the doctor might be able to treat the cause of your low T.

[MikeRazz]

You should go see an endocrinologist because it isn't normal for somebody your age to be suffering from low test. There are a variety of things that COULD cause your problem and the doctor might be able to treat the cause of your low T.

im going to set up an appointment with a real endocronoligst to get more blood work done to find out exactly whats going on, permanently screwed up hormones is not something i want to deal with. so even though ive been completely plateued for about 4 months changes in workout does little to nothing, a cycle of anything would not be ideal right now until i get checked out correct?

[Honkey_Kong]

im going to set up an appointment with a real endocronoligst to get more blood work done to find out exactly whats going on, permanently screwed up hormones is not something i want to deal with. so even though ive been completely plateued for about 4 months changes in workout does little to nothing, a cycle of anything would not be ideal right now until i get checked out correct?

I wouldn't mess with any juice until after you see a good doc and he decides what your course of action should be. But cycling at this point could just make your situation even worse. Are you getting enough sleep and eating good?

[MikeRazz]

i see, if thats the case then it must be a 'profit seeking' clinic..do you think theres a chance i wasnt even getting pure test?

[dec11]

i see, if thats the case then it must be a 'profit seeking' clinic..do you think theres a chance i wasnt even getting pure test?

its not that, its the fact that they want to be selling it to as many ppl as they can mate, therefore dont give a shit about whats right and whats wrong.

[gixxerboy1]

I would go to a real endocrinologist first.
Since you already had these issues at 23 why are you risking doing again so young.
Maybe next time your hormones dont come back