--Post injection pain or P.I.P for short
There’s lots of speculation regarding how and why pip occurs. What I have done here is compile a general knowledge of some of the myths and expel these for members.
There is a lot of “bro science” regarding P.I.P and hopefully if this thread can help educate at least one person then it has served some purpose.
What is P.I.P?
P.I.P is what it says on the tin.
Post injection pain.
It can be instant (sometimes the case with aqueous suspensions) or it can have a delayed onset.
Out of PERSONAL experience pip normally occurs anything from 4 hours after and can last for several days.
In my eyes there are different types of P.I.P and the different factors depend on the length and severity of the pain.
Possible cause 1:
POOR INJECTION TECHNIQUE
To me this category has several causes of P.I.P and I will try to go into detail on them all.
• Hygiene to every AAS user this should be paramount!
Clean injection site is a must. God knows what bacteria will get into the open wound if the area around the site is filthy.
• Wipe the vial
By this I mean use an alcohol wipe to wipe any dirt that may of accumulated on the butyl stopper.
This not only keeps the outer stopper clean but stops any bacteria getting in when you draw from the vial.
• Use 2 needles (1 to draw from vial 1 to inject)
Needles are free in some countries and dirt cheap in those where they aren’t.
There is no need to be injecting with a blunt and potentially contaminated needle when for next to nothing you can use a sealed sterile needle every time.
I advise if you don’t already do this practice to start doing so.
• Choose the correct needle for the site
I see this too often on the board, people complaining of a large egg shaped lump on the glute several days after injection.
At first everybody points the finger to high BA% UGL gear.
Sometimes this may be true but all areas need to be looked into before blaming the gear.
If your body fat percentage is not low (15% or less) using a 1” needle isn’t going to get the oil sat deep enough within the muscle.
This in turn will leave the oil sat in the top of the muscle.
When the oil is in the top of the muscle it stretching the fascia of that muscle and gives the golf ball look that people often complain about.
• Keep a steady hand and inject slowly
Once the needle is in the muscle you need to keep it as steady as possible and I can’t emphasise this enough!
If you drag a needle across your skin with even the smallest amount or pressure, it will break the skin as it’s a razor sharp medical instrument.
Now imagine what that’s doing to your tiny muscle fibres deep inside a muscle.
With your unsteady hand you’re essentially chopping and hacking away from the inside of the muscle.
Couple this with throwing some oil on a fresh wound and you may have yourself an abscess.
If you’re lucky and ugl sterilise their gear it will be easily treatable.
But if it’s not sterile oil and there’s a whole host of bacteria in the vial you have a big problem on your hands!
Taking time to inject is another way to try and prevent P.I.P
The slower the oil enters the muscle the more time it has to disperse itself and not gather in the same spot causing knotting.
Possible cause 2:
SOLVENT CONTENT
Now standard oil based AAS has a solvent (Benzyl Alcohol) and a co-solvent (Benzyl Benzoate)
Basic Information on Commonly-used Solvents:
Benzyl Alcohol (BA):
A fairly potent solvent, whose main function for our purposes is keeping a solution bacteriostatic. It's presence as low as 0.9% is enough to prevent practically all microbial growth in solution.
Benzyl Benzoate (BB):
A co-solvent that serves several functions: helps dissolve the hormone, helps keep it in solution in depot (injection site), and thins the gear so it is easy to draw and inject.
Out of the 2 of these only Benzyl alcohol has the ability to cause pip.
I have personally injected a small amount of BA (in the name of science) and it hurt like crazy compared to zero pain when injecting BB only.
Most UGL’s often use too much BA in their brews to ensure the stability of the product ensuring it doesn’t crash. The problem with this is the uncomfortable pain cause by large percentages of BA.
I can personally use products with up to 6-7% BA and not feel any discomfort. But and it’s a very big BUT everyone is different and everyone’s tolerances to pain is different.
Possible Cause 3
VIRGIN MUSCLE
Every single one of us has had to of experienced this as we all administer our AAS via I.M injection.
A Virgin muscle will feel uncomfortable the first few times after pinning due to the muscle fascia stretching for the first time via I.M administration.
This to me does not feel the same as high BA content or improper injection technique.
Both of the above as some have described a burning type feel whereas virgin muscle to me feels like a deep throbbing feeling and very distinguishable from the others.
There are other possible causes of P.I.P but I feel the above are the main reasons for it.
This part needs to be read and understood.
If you are experiencing P.I.P keep your eye on it as it can turn serious.
Sometimes it’s just a small amount of discomfort that’s ok.
Other times it establishes itself as a small lump at the injection site that can grow by the hour.
If the lump starts to turn red and warm to the touch then were starting to worry a little.
If it’s very warm it’s time to go see a doc just to make sure you haven’t got a sterile abscess.
If Proper injection technique is followed and we keep everything sterile and clean pip should be at the back of our minds.
High MG/ML gear
As we all know and have seen on the board there are more and more questions regarding high mg/ml gear and high dosed blends of gear.
There is a theory flying around that high dosed gear is a massive cause of pain. There is some truth to this but it’s the reason behind this Bro Science gym myth I’m personally not comfortable with.
The theory is that only so much can be absorbed by the muscle and that’s the reason why the amount of BA in the vial is there, to perfectly fit with the absorption of the test into the muscle once injected.
Benzyl alcohol is very soluble in water and as our body is between 40% - 60% water it’s absorbed very quickly once inside the muscle.
But the BA is normally used for antimicrobial uses not as the sole Solvent in the solution this is why I feel that whoever made this myth up overlooked the BB in the solution and its job of keeping the solution stable.
Here is my example of the bro science and why I feel it’s flawed.
Vial A ---------------------- Vial B
Test E 250mg/ml---------- Test E 500mg/ml
2% BA ---------------------- 2% BA
20% BB -------------------- 20% BB
These are normally the contents found on the labels of UGl gear
Vial A will be stable and pain free to shoot.
Vial B in all my experience brewing just won’t hold and will more than likely crash sometime after being made.
This is not what the UGL wants as they can’t sell a vial of crashed gear.
So they add more solvent.
In this case it’s BA.
You need to remember these people aren’t brewing 10-100ml like you or I would. They have big vats of maybe 10litres and above! So to them adding 100ml of BA seems like a small amount of fluid but the end product were looking at around 8-9% BA and that’s painful!
So with the added BA in the brew being possibly 3-4 times higher than the original 2% and the MG of the test e only being double the original dosage there should according to the myth be enough BA for the absorption of the extra test in the solution.
Whereas in reality it’s just the sheer amount of BA that’s causing the pain.
BRO SCIENCE MYTH 2
PIP is the body rejecting the test!!!!!
Yes I have heard this crap in local gyms numerous times and it grips my SH1T big time!!!
I don’t need to write anything on this as it’s just so preposterous and whoever came up with it needs a slap.
MYTH 3
Warming gear stops PIP
This is not true warming the gear can only make it slightly more viscous and easier to pin but this has nothing to do with post injection pain.
If anybody can prove me wrong on this I am open to any literature that proves this theory correct and I will be the first person to hold my hand up and say I was wrong.
The only logical sense I can see behind this theory is that when the vial is placed in warm water for a period of time the solution becomes warm and thoroughly mixed as all the elements in the vial (oil, BA, BB, Hormone) are heated up together ensuring a complete solution.
But I still can’t see how this will stop pip from happening.
Because if pip is caused from improper injection technique or high solvent content, warming the solution is doing nothing to remove either of these variables from the equation.
This is my own personal insight into Post Injection Pain
If you have any theories of your own please feel free to add them and hope we can all learn from each other.
Stay safe and educate before you medicate
Panntastic
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Originally Posted by marcus300
