Tips for Clomid use.

[manveer1]

Hi All, so i have just been prescribed Clomid by a TRT specialist.

- Is there any supplements I should take with it to optimise or help my body during clomid use? Or any I should avoid?

-Is it better to take during the morning/night/empty stomach?

Thanks

[manveer1]

Is this for fertility, hrt, or (as this forum would indicate) pct?

PCT mate. Well my last cycle was a few years ago but I have low testosterone levels and low fsh and lh. So the specialist has prescribed clomid.

[gjoney_b]

PCT mate. Well my last cycle was a few years ago but I have low testosterone levels and low fsh and lh. So the specialist has prescribed clomid.

so after a few years after cycle you plan PCT ��

[The Deadlifting Dog]

so after a few years after cycle you plan PCT ��

No sir.

He is running clomid as TRT.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I'm not sure that is the case. It sounds like some odd PCT

I stand corrected.
Just saw post#3 above.

[manveer1]

Oh, I agree this is definitely a confusing case. The stated purpose is PCT but the doses are HRT.

OP, is the doc really looking to try to restart the HPTA here? There are much better protocols for that, but the doc may be thinking start with the minimum viable dose.

Sorry guys for the confusion.
Basically he is a really well known trt and erectile dysfunction specialist.. so i showed him my stats and asked what shall I do as I want to have kids next year. So we ruled out trt. I did do PCT a few years ago.

He recommended to start clomid and we monitor over the upcoming few months. So im not sure how long his plan is i will ask him next time. He said 70% of his patients will see increases in testosterone and lh from taking clomid, but the other 30% it didn't work in.

I have bought some Arginine and Citruline .. can I have this with Cialis (i will be taking 5mg a day) ? I've read conflicting reports due to the nitric oxide.
Now also taking Ashwagandha, zma, vitamin d, and just bought Maca, Korean Red Ginseng and Tribulus.

And thank you so much for the replies really appreciate it.

[Mooseman33]

case of tissue..

clomid makes me cry watching war movies.

[manveer1]

So, what are the doses and protocol the doc is recommending? 50mg per day every day or what? Are they including HCG or HMG by chance?

As far as dosing morning or night, I haven't found that to matter to me. But keep in mind that I'm using clomid as HRT so it's a long term thing. 25mg every other day works well for me in this regard.

You might layer in some herbals, I think we discussed on another thread.

25mg every other day. Just clomid nothing else.

Cool, thanks for your help . Can Calcium D glucorate in large doses bring down my Oestrogen?

[manveer1]

He hasnt actually stated how long yet, he said he will keep monitoring the results. How you finding long term use of clomid?

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/for...?topic=11826.0 - here he insists on using Calcium Glucorate to lower Oestrogen.

[yeahbuddy289]

Vitamin E is suppose to increase the effectiveness of Clomid.

[manveer1]

So after 1 month of Clomiphene 25mg every other day my results are as follows:

Below are the results I received today, which I did after exactly 1 month of Clomiphene:
Lutenising Hormone (LH) = 6 iu/L (4 weeks ago this was 3iu/L)
Serum oestradiol level = 224pmol/L (4 weeks ago this was 165 pmol/L)
Serum Testosterone = 21.4nmol/L (4 weeks ago this was 11.5nmol/L)

Erections are a lot worse and weaker (however I am finally getting morning erections once or twice a week which I have not experienced in a very long time). I have emailed my specialist and will see what he recommends, im guessing some Arimidex.

[manveer1]

These numbers definitely show improvement!

Whats the range on the estrogen? I might think about giving the clomid a little more time to work without adding another pharmaceutical.

I would recommend boron at 10mg per day to reduce SHBG and thus increase dht and t.

Thank you mate, your advice and feedback has helped me a lot so far (and your supplements advice which I have taken up!). I guess my mind (feeling more emotional) and body were always going to get worse before they get better, but atleast the Clomiphene is working.

Sex Hormone Binding Glob. (SHB)
14.8 nmol/L (14.0-48.0) - However this was before Clomid, my specialist didn't ask for it to be checked for this first blood test. So if we are looking at my SHBG reading from 4 weeks ago then Boron would not be necessary right?

Serum oestradiol level range = 50.00 - 218.oopmol/L so mine is higher than the range, however that range is a NHS lab interpretation of normal (I know it can vary from country to country etc).

[The Deadlifting Dog]

DON'T FEED THE TROLL....

on 6/11th you said....
"However I always wake up with rock solid hard ons..."
https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...ease-help.html
post#1

now you say...
"however I am finally getting morning erections once or twice a week which I have not experienced in a very long time"
post#22 in this thread

I have no advice for you.

[manveer1]

Please can you delete your reply it does not help me or this topic, I have just explained this to you on the other post "Chill brother thank you for the help so far and yes thats right I did edit but I am not a Troll I will explain - basically my specialist and I worked out that i was only getting morning erections when i was sleeping with my partner. He told me to monitor this and he was proved correct. Sleeping next to her (she is damn hot lol) I get them every morning as she tends to jump on me ha (but due to my issues we cant have sex). However when I am not sleeping with her I never get morning erections and have not for a long time (until now 4 weeks into Clomiphene I am starting to get them when sleeping on my own once or twice a week on average)."

[manveer1]

My gut says that SHBG may have increased as well. I would probably add the boron anyhow to see if it helps bring down the E just a bit. Boron is not a harsh pharmaceutical so it should do way less harm, if any, than something like adex. Worst case, it does nothing for you, best case, it increases dht and free t and brings e down a hair.

I will try and get him to add SHBG next time then. I will buy some Boron, thanks. I saw on other posts you bought some diindolylmethane dim? How was it for you? Is there a dosage you would recommend for me here?

My specialist has seen my bloods and wants to start me on Arimidex so I will go for it and see what happens. Annoying as my cholestrol is already high, so I will look at taking some natural Cholestrol supplements as well (already taking Garlic tabs).

[ShredBundy]

Cylon is giving sound advice, as usual. I would be VERY cautious of adding Arimidex so soon. It is a very strong AI and can dramatically reduce E2 causing more issues and negative sides based on my experience and others on this forum. Im sure you know this already but Estrogen is extremely important for overall health, sexual function and well being. What dose is he prescribing? I crashed my E2 on cycle administering Arimidex at only 0.5mg 2x a week. It was horrible and took over a month to subside. Most doctors, including my own, don't want to see high estradiol and largely aren't as knowledgeable on HRT as some of these forum members, so when they see high E they throw AI at it, but truth of the matter is many men report feeling better with elevated E2. Use caution, make sure he is testing blood work for everything you want to see, and I hope you get to feeling better soon! Cheers

[manveer1]

Hi both..thanks so much for the advice again, im implementing a lot of it.

- DIM doesn't sound ideal does it, I've read on some other sites as well that it may have the opposite effects. Will leave it i think. I've got the Boron now cheers.
The sides i am getting from the high E are absolutely awful, honestly they are horrendous. So today he told me he wants me on 0.25mg a day 3 times a week then will check bloods next month. I really feel like I need it, however seems like I need to urge on side of caution with it. How did you get your E back up?
Was your E as high as mine/did you also get really bad sides from E being at my levels?

[ShredBundy]

Yeah 2-4 weeks is about right for E to climb again (for me while completely off AI). I remember feeling better emotionally and physically after the 2 weeks mark. Also something extremely important I want to mention that hasn't been discussed as much on the forum is that the Arimidex dehydrated the crap out of me. This is why some bb use it for contest prep. I had joint pain, my strength and gains stalled completely, and it was awful (BUT I had a six pack lol). I was constantly cramping and I partially tore a pec AND hamstring at the gym which was very scary and ill never forget the sound it made. This was the first time I ever tore something in my 20+ years of training and first time using Arimidex. Thankfully they were minor with no bruising or deformity in symmetry. A year later my injuries are just now seeing improvement, the hamstring is a lingering issue but I can still squat and press heavy.

[ShredBundy]

Holy enlightenment, @ShredBundy, you may have answered a question I've had in my head for a few weeks. I have a torn meniscus that was hurting bad for a while. I used some peps to help with it, cut back my routine some, etc, but about 3 weeks ago I kicked the training into high gear. BUT, I haven't had significant knee pain, even after squat day.

And it has been about 6 weeks ago that I took my last AI. I had either forgotten or never knew or just didn't put 2 and 2 together on the joint pain possibility from the arimidex. No adex, less pain. Adex, more pain. At least that seems to be the case for me as well.

Hey sorry for the delay, been busy w moving to a new home. Not to hijack the OP thread but I’m glad to hear you and hopefully others will find that info useful! I too didn’t realize that the AI was causing it until a few weeks later when looking into sides of Arimidex and another forum member mentioned it as well. I appreciated Gearheaded for his hatred for AI. I firmly believe they are sketchy, and to be taken and administered seriously, or preferably, not at all! Joint pain is the worst, I have nagging forearm tendon issues as well and the adex always exaggerated it!

[manveer1]

Hey lads an update.

So I had my blood test results back below. After around 7days of taking Arimidex till around 12 days I had sky high libido and more frequent morning erections.

Do you guys have a blood number where you feel at your optimum regarding serum Oestradiol level? As after around 12 days, I started to have literally 0 libido and poor erections.

Prescribed Armidex 3 times a week 0.25mg. And I am taking 25mg Clomiphene every 2 days. After seeing my blood test results my specialist said Arimidex down to 2 days a week, however after reading what you guys are saying above maybe I could have it just one day a week? Lets see.

Serum Oestradiol 116pmol/L (50-218). 4 weeks ago this was 224pmol, and before we started treatment it was 165.

Lutenising Hormone is now 7 iu/L (2-9). 4 weeks ago it was 6, and before my treatment it was 3.

Serum Testosterone is now 25.5nmol (8.6 - 29.0), 4 weeks ago it was 21.4 nmol/L, and before my treatment was 11.5.

Getting full bloods checked next time.

[manveer1]

It looks like you are driving your estrogen too low. Maybe back off the dose of adex to .25 once a week or maybe even .125 2x per week. It's hard to cut tablets into eighths, though.

You could cut it out entirely but IIRC you had issues with e at the high end. Oh and 'optimal levels' vary from one person to another. You will have to tweak your protocol to find where YOU feel best.

Still, this is by and large good news!

Thanks yes I think will do that that.

Out of curiosity what is the level/number you think you feel best on?

Yes it is good news , progress being made finally. Regarding Cialis, is it possible to build up tolerance to it? I'll be starting on 2.5mg a day, but ideally don't want to gradually increase due to tolerance. I've searched many articles online but can't seem to find a consensus answer.

[manveer1]

Upper end of range on Free T and DHT, upper 25% on E and Total T is where I seem to feel best. I don't imagine, but do not know for sure, that cialis at 2.5 to 5mg per day is likely to build much tolerance because it is a low, therapeutic dose. I think the recreational dose of cialis begins at 20mg and goes up from there.

Thanks, you the man!! You're a real asset to this site, and myself!

Never once before I started my Clomid HRT did I have any issues with anxiety or depression. However a couple of weeks into it I started getting random episodes, it comes on quite strong now and quite regular.
Do you think this is from how sharply my hormones have been changing? (As we've seen from my regular blood results)
Or you think this is specifically from the drug Clomid?

[manveer1]

You are too kind, but in reality, all I know is what I've learned from my own experiences and from other members on this site.

Clomid can treat some people badly, though I haven't had any issues. Would enclomiphene be an option for your treatment? It is supposed to have the benefits of clomid without the sides, but I do not have personal experience with it JUST YET.

I forget, and now we are on a second page lol, but are you taking longjack and / or mucuna pruriens? I felt absolutely super on those in my pre hrt days, and still use them on occasion. I need to write up my experience with them in the Supplements subforum (yes, I know I have been saying that since I joined :P ). In fact, I'm pretty sure that longjack boosted my DHT up and made me feel super sharp and a bit aggressive, upcoming blood work may shed some light on that.

I guess I could ask my specialist about that, he might not know what it is to be honest, but no harm in asking. I've been doing things by the book this time, listening to specialists fully.

I was going to buy them 2 if my Clomiphene did not increase my Testosterone however of course my Testosterone rocketed.. you recommend me to buy some to help with mood then? I read Mucuna is great for dopamine, but is there any danger in once you stop taking it your body produces less dopamine? If not then I will buy .
Yes yes get it on the subforum ha!

[manveer1]

I think both LJ and MP work best cycled. I really don't and didn't use them every day, just like 3 or 4 days a week at around 250 mg each 3 weeks on 1 week off.

Yeah that sounds similar to what I read, Mucuna seems like something to be really careful with although great if you can find the right way to take it. I will do further research on it.

[manveer1]

By the way, what is your current hair loss/growth plan? My hair has fallen out a lot and thinned since starting this clomid treatment.

I'm currently using Minoxidil Regaine spray twice a day, and a German caffeine shampoo.
Finasteride looks a bit risky, could interfere with our Clomiphene bloods?
I'm getting a DHT blood test shortly. Also, did Austintine do a post on hair loss? He seemed to do a informative post on everything else.

[manveer1]

My current hair protocol is roughly the same as it has been for 20+ years: shave it down to 3 to 6 mm every month to six weeks.

DHT is almost certainly the culprit and you likely would encounter it on Test or Clomid. I haven't heard of specific hair loss due to clomid, but maybe?

If you tolerate it well, Finasteride can be a blessing with regard to DHT control. If you do not, and I don't, there is no safe dose. It can tank your DHT fast and the sides are just not worth it, in my experience. But once again, I didn't tolerate it well. I know a lot of members use it with success. MAYBE if my DHT were 300 with top of range being 65, I would use it again short term. But otherwise, no.

In fact, my DHT was recently 128 with top of range being 65. Doc wanted to try Fina again and I was like no. I was taking LJ and mucuna at the time, so I stopped those and we retested Tuesday, waiting on bloodwork now.

I see, thanks.

What sides did you get from Finasteride? What hormones would it affect Oestrogen and DHT?
Also, if my DHT was to "crash", how long before it would get back to normal? I remember you said before Oestrogen would take 1.5months to return to normal levels if it is crashed.

Thanks again

[manveer1]

Google "finasteride sides". That's just easier. I got all the negatives from 1.25mg every 2 weeks, and I took 3 doses total. DHT went from 60'ish to 15 or so. The sides were a result of tanking the DHT and went away completely about a month after my last dose. Fina is kind of an odd drug in that the difference between 1mg and 5mg isn't 5x, its the difference between I THINK roughly 60% reduction vs 75% reduction in DHT. Don't quote me on those exact numbers, though.

Recovery times aren't precise, BTW. Just sharing my experience, which by and large, seem in line with other members experiences in similar situations.

Hi mate, will these shampoos that claim to block DHT impact a DHT blood test?
Can we take these long term?

I am currently taking Alpecin i think it is german caffeine shampoo, it says it blocks DHT and I've been on it for a few years.

Also, what are the exact things you get tested for on blood tests? My specialist only wants to check red blood cells, Oestradiol, test and LH. So im looking for a private online test. Didn't realise a DHT test is so expensive

[manveer1]

So I have had my latest blood test results back, DHT was tested due to for the first time in my life I was losing a lot of hair. I have attached the blood test results as well as it is easier to read on there. I will post this on the main forum page as well fyi. Currently on Clomiphene 25mg every 2 days.

- What are your thoughts on my current bloods mate?
- I have an appointment with my TRT specialist soon, anything I should ask him about?
- I started taking 3mg of Boron, and I have bought DIM in case I need something to reduce Oestrogen in future (no longer want to take Arimidex it was too harsh on my bones). How much shall I take a day when I need it? Does not look like I need it anytime soon right?
- You will see a decrease in some of the results, this will be because when I went on holiday for around 3 week's I forgot to take my medication with me. I also stopped ZMA 3 months ago but restarting this week.
- For the SHGB on the blood test form it said ""From the 16th October, SHBG results will be approximately 18% lower than previous, because of restandardisation of the Assay".



Blood Test name 16th June 26th August 8th October 24th Dec

Serum oestradiol level (50.00 - 218.pmol/L) 165 pmol/L 224 pmol/L 116pmol/L 73 pmol/L
Serum Testosterone (8.6-29nmol/L) 11.5nmol/L 21.4nmol/L 25.5nmol/L 20.0nmol/L
Sex Hormone Binding Glob. (SHB) (14.0-48.0) 14.8 nmol/L 18.3nmol/L
Follicile-Stimulating Hormone (FSH) (2-12) 2 IU/L 2 IU/L
Lutenising Hormone (LH) (2-9) 3 IU/L 6 IU/L 7 IU/L 6 IU/L
Prolactin (PRL) < 401 227 mU/L

Testosterone: DHT ratio (6.2 - 17.2) 22.5
Testosterone by LCMS (8.3 - 33.0) 23.9
Dht (0.28 - 2.51) 1.06

[manveer1]

Hi All, been on this treatment for 2 years now, some recent changes (however I did go on mh honeymoon and was jet lagged when I took this test). I'm asking my docs the below questions too, but I find people here to be a lot more knowledgeable.

- My current Clomiphene dosage is 25mg twice a week, shall I increase this? As my LH and Testosterone have lowered recently.
- We had my Oestradiol controlled at quarter of a Exemestane tablet every 6 days. However it randomly spiked in past month. What should my new dose be and how often? Also how long shall I do this new dose for as we don't want it to crash. Bit confused how it randomly raised after being stable for so long and started to experience a tonne of sides.

[Cylon357]

Hi All, been on this treatment for 2 years now, some recent changes (however I did go on mh honeymoon and was jet lagged when I took this test). I'm asking my docs the below questions too, but I find people here to be a lot more knowledgeable.

- My current Clomiphene dosage is 25mg twice a week, shall I increase this? As my LH and Testosterone have lowered recently.
- We had my Oestradiol controlled at quarter of a Exemestane tablet every 6 days. However it randomly spiked in past month. What should my new dose be and how often? Also how long shall I do this new dose for as we don't want it to crash. Bit confused how it randomly raised after being stable for so long and started to experience a tonne of sides.

This is for fertility, right? You probably ought to up the dose of clomid to 3x per week, or 12.5 6x per week. Either way, clomid is an annoying little molecule that has so much potential on paper but falls short in real life.

I would probably just resign myself to the fact that estrogen is going to be a problem with clomid. It's the zuclomiphene part that makes it most problematic, IMO.

I did finally switch to test (cream) and hcg for my hrt, if that tells you anything about my real thoughts on clomid and encomiphene.

Have you looked at HMG?

[manveer1]

This is for fertility, right? You probably ought to up the dose of clomid to 3x per week, or 12.5 6x per week. Either way, clomid is an annoying little molecule that has so much potential on paper but falls short in real life.

I would probably just resign myself to the fact that estrogen is going to be a problem with clomid. It's the zuclomiphene part that makes it most problematic, IMO.

I did finally switch to test (cream) and hcg for my hrt, if that tells you anything about my real thoughts on clomid and encomiphene.

Have you looked at HMG?

Yes for fertility. Thanks for the advice.
What you thinking regarding exemestane dosage and for how long? Waiting on my docs reply.

Sounds good! What's HMG sorry?

[Cylon357]

Yes for fertility. Thanks for the advice.
What you thinking regarding exemestane dosage and for how long? Waiting on my docs reply.

Sounds good! What's HMG sorry?

exemestane... I have no experience with that compound directly, but I think it compares to arimidex at 1mg arimidex is ROUGHLY the same as 25mg exemestane. But, you did have a working dose that isn't working anymore, so maybe the comparison isn't relevant... We just need to start with your last working dose: 6.25mg every six days.

If that was a good dose, I'm going to say try microdosing it at 1/8 tab twice a week. Something like 3.125mg per dose. You will almost certainly need to make a liquid with vodka or any other 80+ proof liquor to achieve that small a dose. But, it works and the more frequent smaller dose might allow you to keep things in check better. I think that is where I would start. The more frequent dose will prevent the peaks and valleys you were probably experiencing at 1/4 tab every 6 days.

Make the math easy on yourself and use 8ml vodka to 1 25mg tablet. Break the tablet in half, drop it in a dropper bottle with the vodka, shake (or just let it sit overnight), then dose at 1ml for 1/8 tab. Be sure to shake it up real well before drawing your dose. You should just have filler particles floating around but maybe exemestane doesn't dissolve as well in alcohol as adex.

[Cylon357]

Oh and hmg is to fsh what hcg is to lh.

[manveer1]

Thank you once again my friend. I'll have to think about that as I had alcohol problems in the past.

Sorry if this is not allowed here and please delete if so, but I cant really find an Enclomiphene source in UK, you suggested that before.

[Cylon357]

Thank you once again my friend. I'll have to think about that as I had alcohol problems in the past.

Sorry if this is not allowed here and please delete if so, but I cant really find an Enclomiphene source in UK, you suggested that before.

There are a number of good places to look, but in the UK, I would take a look at Receptor Chem. No contact info there, but they are super easy to find.

[manveer1]

Hi Cyclon, please help me. My Doctor can't seem to get my Oestradiol right. Please can you advise? I cant do the microdosing as you mentioned for Exemestane, I dont want to drink alcohol every day due to previous issues. Please can you advise on the below 4 questions, but no microdosing just tablet doses.

Current dosage:
- 25mg Clomiphene 3 times a week, I should decrease this as my red blood cells + Haematocrit is high?
- Exemestane quarter of a tablet 2 times a week. I should increase this to what? Not working at all.
- Also, what can I do about my red blood cells and Haemotcrit? I normally give blood, hence why the Ferritin is lower than before? But this year I have not.
- Does Enclomiphene convert to Oestradiol as much as Clomiphene?

[Cylon357]

Hi Cyclon, please help me. My Doctor can't seem to get my Oestradiol right. Please can you advise? I cant do the microdosing as you mentioned for Exemestane, I dont want to drink alcohol every day due to previous issues. Please can you advise on the below 4 questions, but no microdosing just tablet doses.

Current dosage:
- 25mg Clomiphene 3 times a week, I should decrease this as my red blood cells + Haematocrit is high?
- Exemestane quarter of a tablet 2 times a week. I should increase this to what? Not working at all.
- Also, what can I do about my red blood cells and Haemotcrit? I normally give blood, hence why the Ferritin is lower than before? But this year I have not.
- Does Enclomiphene convert to Oestradiol as much as Clomiphene?

Quick thoughts...

Blood donation should help to get rbc and hcrit in line. Not sure what that does to MCHC, though.

Microdosing doesn't have to involve liquor. You can use PEG (which may be the same thing?) Or maybe even water. You will want to dig around some on that.

Alternatively, you might just up the dose on it to 1/4 every third day or similar. You don't need to bring estrogen down much if you aren't having negatives.

Also as has been observed dozens of time before, clomid is not without issues that make it bleah in the long term. You can and should try going to 12.5mg 4 to 6 days a week.

One last note: clomid does not "convert" to estrogen. It causes estrogenic sides in a couple of ways. First, by raising testosterone, aromatase does its thing and raises estrogen. Second, the zuclomiphene portion of clomid IS an estrogenic molecule. Hence the recommend for enclomiphene.

Bonus: enclomiphene does NOT have the estrogenic sides associated with clomid, though as mentioned I never could get it quite right for me as HRT. It does still indirectly cause estrogen increase from aromatization, but does not have the zuclomiphene molecule.

Peep my enclomiphene thread in the HRT sub for details

[manveer1]

Quick thoughts...

Blood donation should help to get rbc and hcrit in line. Not sure what that does to MCHC, though.

Microdosing doesn't have to involve liquor. You can use PEG (which may be the same thing?) Or maybe even water. You will want to dig around some on that.

Alternatively, you might just up the dose on it to 1/4 every third day or similar. You don't need to bring estrogen down much if you aren't having negatives.

Also as has been observed dozens of time before, clomid is not without issues that make it bleah in the long term. You can and should try going to 12.5mg 4 to 6 days a week.

One last note: clomid does not "convert" to estrogen. It causes estrogenic sides in a couple of ways. First, by raising testosterone, aromatase does its thing and raises estrogen. Second, the zuclomiphene portion of clomid IS an estrogenic molecule. Hence the recommend for enclomiphene.

Bonus: enclomiphene does NOT have the estrogenic sides associated with clomid, though as mentioned I never could get it quite right for me as HRT. It does still indirectly cause estrogen increase from aromatization, but does not have the zuclomiphene molecule.

Peep my enclomiphene thread in the HRT sub for details

Thanks so much again mate.