Insulin: 20ius?

[jbs]

I am not diabetic, but I have been using 20 ius of Humulin R. I normally take this M-F, after my morning workout. I started taking 2 ius per day, and have worked up to 20ius @ 215 pounds. The only noticed side affect at 20ius, for me, is I feel tired up to 90 minutes after taking it. After that window, everything is back to normal. My glucose reading after 2 hours is ~100. I do find it necessary to consume ~1000 calories after the 20ius, with 200 of these being protein and the rest carbs. I've seen many different reports on insulin use, and reccomendations on how much to use, so I thought I would share my personal experience with it. Comments and/or reccomendations welcomed.

[The Iron Game]

Hey bro, 200 grams of protein in how short a time frame?

200 grams of protein = 800 calories so I can work out you are only gettin 200 calories from carbs, 50 grams is not sufficient for 20iu's. Well I wouldnt feel so anyway.

[Mr. Nobody]

Originally posted by The Iron Game
Hey bro, 200 grams of protein in how short a time frame?

200 grams of protein = 800 calories so I can work out you are only gettin 200 calories from carbs, 50 grams is not sufficient for 20iu's. Well I wouldnt feel so anyway.

200 calories = 50 g protein
1000-200 = 800 calories = 200 g carbs (20iu x 10)

I think thats too much slin in on one sitting, I prefer to stop at 10iu and add another one in the morning.

IG, put down that joint and take some nootropics

[bigkev]

thats alot at one time bro. i would die if i took 20iu's at once. split it up into 2 daily injections.

[superbeast]

Have to agree with these guys. I never take more than 12 iu's at once. The amgic number is supposed to be 1 iu per 15 lbs. That would be about 14 iu's for you. I even consider that number a little high.

[The Iron Game]

Originally posted by Mr. Nobody


200 calories = 50 g protein
1000-200 = 800 calories = 200 g carbs (20iu x 10)

I think thats too much slin in on one sitting, I prefer to stop at 10iu and add another one in the morning.

IG, put down that joint and take some nootropics

Joint? Who? Moi?

I read 200 and thought grams of protein thus equalling 800 calories

20ius of log I would say is too much but humulin, possibly, possibly not. I have noticed though when using higher amounts of slin the water retention comes on a lot quicker as more carbs is needed to prevent you from going hypo.

[jbs]

Initially with Insulin, I was just curious how much of it I could take without feeling bad. I'm confident this stuff builds muscle, and I hold to the theory, with some exceptions, the more I can SAFELY take the better. By the way, I have taken 20ius in the morning and then another 10ius about 8 hours after that, like in the evening, but I prefer to just take the one shot a day for convenience. I begin to feel like a pin cushion taking 2 shots of insulin a day. It's just not fun. Perhaps if I took the additional shot consistently in the pm, I would make more substantial gains. Anybody systematically taken Insulin twice a day and seen muscle gain increases over once a day?
For me, it is hard enough to tell if the 3 pounds of muscle I put on was due to insulin or test. Now, I worry that I might be short changing myself by skipping the extra shot.

:-)

Thanks guys for your input,
jbs

[The Iron Game]

Shooting 20ius a day and you only put on 3lbs? And that was on top of test? I have used as much as 3 times a day but that was log not humulin (2hrs active before major decline) so you can shoot it more frequently. I would defintely say something is wrong though with the 3llb gains though.

[Molle_23]

Originally posted by superbeast
Have to agree with these guys. I never take more than 12 iu's at once. The amgic number is supposed to be 1 iu per 15 lbs. That would be about 14 iu's for you. I even consider that number a little high.

There is NO magic number! But caution should be taken anyway, cos 20 iu will make you need lots of carbs! And I don't think there is any strong correlation with high usage and high growth in muscles. What u need is a moderate dosage. It'll work best with HGH & then u need it for sure.
BTW, try to change to Humalog, since Humalin R are much slower acting, it's active in your body for over double time the Humalog. And thus mean it can be more unpredictable...and harder to control. Later, molle

[superbeast]

The "magic number" I used came from the late steroid guru, Dan Duschaine (sp). Obviously, everybody is different but this was the approximate number he suggested could be taken safely.

[Molle_23]

Originally posted by superbeast
The "magic number" I used came from the late steroid guru, Dan Duschaine (sp). Obviously, everybody is different but this was the approximate number he suggested could be taken safely.

Oki bro, I adore dan but I think he is wrong here. I've used slin within 17 years and cannot see any "strong" correlation in "higher dose for higher weight". Still, around that amount 12-16 is oki - higher doses are totally unnecessary in my opinion.
Later, molle

[jbs]

You would think that there would be at a certain point a diminishing return on muscle growth as you go from injecting a little insulin to a lot. Like where 10ius might give you 10 extra pounds of muscle over 1 year, maybe 20ius would just give you 13. Makes sense, but who knows. I figure, if it is not hurting me though, I will stick with 20ius for now, and see what happens. I actually took 23 ius, this morning of Humulin R. My blood sugar was at 78, before I did this, and in short order I consumed 2000 calories worth of pizza. 2 hours later I feel fine.

I know the log supposedly is the better way to go, but you have to have a per., and it cost twice as much, and I personally think that there is not that big of a difference between the two. I could see actually some benefit to having a longer acting insulin in your system like R, when taking test. While the slin is binding with globulin, the test is more potent.

The whole question of insulin use is fairly complicated though. Studies have shown that just using insulin by itself with weight training is anabolic. You will build more muscle using insulin than not. You will build even more muscle by using test with insulin. You will build more muscle with these two together than either alone. They are synergistic.

My earlier statement was a little misleading. Since April of last year, I have put on 35 pounds. In 10 months, with test and insulin I went from 175 to 210. I think about 7 pounds of that is fat, a few pounds of water, and the rest muscle. That aint too bad. In a few weeks, I hope to burn off the fat and be around 200 w/ 6-9% bf.
thxs guys,
jbs

[superbeast]

I agree with you in a way, but not completely. I think that the more muscle that you have, the more glycogen you can store. Thus, more insulin will allow you to shuttle more glycogen into storage. The idea is to not cross that line where it becomes saturated and fat is stored. By taking too much, you may be causing fat storage but you also are taking a lot more risk.

I don't know about you guys but I don't want to have Diabetes. By taking more insulin, you risk causing a shutdown of your own production. Better safe than sorry since it is such a tricky subject. Like I said, I weigh 250 and I don't go above 12 IU. I get very good gains off of it along with test.

[The Iron Game]

I really dont know where these figures for insulin come from, 3lbs with testosterone use, 10lbs in one year, 13lbs with increased dose in one year. It takes 4-6 weeks to gain 10-20lbs first time around on insulin.

[jbs]

It is hard to be even slightly scientific in the pursuit of more muscle, unless your very disciplined, patient, and detail oriented. I can see easy enough that ok, I've put on 10 pounds over x amount of time. If my bf% stays the same, and I am not bloated, then I have more or less put on ten pounds of muscle. The point is though that because I haven't been extremely scientific about it, I can't tell you what % came from insulin usage, and what % came from some other factor like test usage. Of course, if I wanted to truely test the potentcy of the insulin, I would run it by itself, hold everything else constant and see what sort of gain I would have. Then I could say that, the insulin, assuming nothing else is exerting an influence, for me, caused an increase of 10 pounds of muscle. Maybe it is for lack of patience that I don't try this approach, but I would much rather use my time and money doing what I think will cause the greatest increase in muscle. Unfortuantely, I can't say for sure using this approach how much of a gain is because of insulin or test. (The numbers above are arbitrary.)
jbs

[The Iron Game]

the point is that you gained 3lbs on test + slin, either both where fake or spoiled or you had some other factor (diet, training etc) neglected

Peace

[jbs]

Becoming insulin dependent is obviously a concern, but from what I have read on it, taking Humulin R should not cause any sort of dependency. But who the fuck knows, doctors (as far as I know) aren't going around doing studies on guys who shouldn't be taking insulin to see at what schedule they become diabetic. What I like to do is take Sat. and Sun off from insulin and monitor my glucose, and see what it is doing. Everything so far appears perfectly normal. If I wake up and my glucose reading is at 160+ then I would know that my body was needing insulin. That would for me be the indication that I had become diabetic. Normally, when I wake up, my glucose reading is right where it should be in the 90-100 range, whether I have injected insulin the previous day or not.
jbs

[jbs]

Originally posted by The Iron Game
the point is that you gained 3lbs on test + slin, either both where fake or spoiled or you had some other factor (diet, training etc) neglected

Peace

I think your getting a little ahead of yourself Iron to be making assumptions concerning whether or not my test or slin is spoiled, etc. Your overlooking one very important detail, and that is time.

I originally said this: For me, it is hard enough to tell if the 3 pounds of muscle I put on was due to insulin or test.

I did not specify a time frame. Could it be that in a 3 day period I put on 3 pounds of muscle or that I did this in one week? It really doesn't matter the time frame, the point remains that who the hell knows what the 3 pounds came from if your taking 4 different drugs. Which one is responsibile for the gain, all of them, mostly one of them.... it is hard to say. That is all I am trying to say.
Thx bro,
jbs

[Molle_23]

Originally posted by superbeast
I agree with you in a way, but not completely. I think that the more muscle that you have, the more glycogen you can store. Thus, more insulin will allow you to shuttle more glycogen into storage. The idea is to not cross that line where it becomes saturated and fat is stored. By taking too much, you may be causing fat storage but you also are taking a lot more risk.

I don't know about you guys but I don't want to have Diabetes. By taking more insulin, you risk causing a shutdown of your own production. Better safe than sorry since it is such a tricky subject. Like I said, I weigh 250 and I don't go above 12 IU. I get very good gains off of it along with test.

Oki bro's, I'm a diabetic and been so for 17 years. I'm 24 now...
However, what I heard the risk of getting a diabetic from taking slin when your pancreas still is ok is minimal unless u use very high dosages over a prelonged timeperiod.

However, to get very low bloodsuger is NOT good. It can be very dangerous really, give you brain damages and even kill you if you go to far... However, that is very unlikely, I've been to coma because of low blood suger 2-3 times and am still alive (without brain damage ))

I notice myself when I higher the insulin intake I can gain muscles very fast, together with roids and sometimes even without. I'm not sure if it's lots of fat or mostly muscles, but it seems like mostly muscles. I use insulin 6-8 times a day when I do roids.... (that's cos I eat more primary)

If u have any questions I'll try to answer them since I have lots of real experience with slin... later, molle

[The Iron Game]

Originally posted by Molle_23
However, that is very unlikely, I've been to come because of low blood suger 2-3 times and am still alive (without brain damage ))

Molle, please dont lie, admit the truth about your brain damage, its quite worrying actually