DNP Supp Shopping List

[Ambulance]

Ok so it's been said not to do DNP, but some of us are going to anyways at one point or another.

To all the experienced users...cycleon, dr evil, bdtr, etc

What was your daily shopping list of supps? Please how much of each vitamin and supps you took to survive... IE V8, vitamin E, Potasium, etc

Totally overdue it if you can, list everything you could possibly need to survive. I've researched, but everyone seems to have a few different things they use as well as the commons everyone uses. Go ahead and give us your daily intake list of supps if you can..as well as what you wish you took with it that you didn't.

Thanks guys, hope you have the time for this!

[Gmill13]

Dont touch it Ambulance. As far as I know you have barley even completed your first cycle(not a put down). ****s just scarey and advanced. I would atleast exhaust every diet in the world before taking that step.

[Ambulance]

I dont plan on it for a year actually bro, so that would be why I've began researching at such an early start because its so dangerouse. This isn't just for me though, this is for every member who could potentially save their life with this post. If you feel i havent done my research i can post all of the supps i know to take, but i am looking for something more intimate as in what each user prefers for them since everyones different.

I'm going natural for another year, but lets get the thread rolling now. I'm ordering all my supps 1 month before i even order the DNP.

[Ambulance]

So lets see your shopping lists and dosages bros....

[wingsofazrael]

ok. im not endorsing DNP and by no means am i suggesting you use it, but if you are going to use it you might as well be safe about it. i stopped my first 12 day DNP blast a little after thanksgiving and im getting ready to go back on a 10 day blast starting on the 15. firstly, im sure youve been told to start at 200mg for the first 3 days. that is sound advice until you figure out how much you can stand and how well your body tolerates it. i didnt have any side effects except for constant sweats, insomnia, yellow body fluids, irritability. if you are under some kind of stress or pressure or having some kind of emotional problem, wait until after that is over with or you will be a basketcase while on DNP. ok...here is what i used personally...

1 regular multivitamin
4 grams of vitamin C
2000 IU of vitamin E
800mg of ALA (rALA is better if you can find it)
1333mg of Magnesium
2400mg of Calcium (not with magnesium)
525mg of Milk Thistle
950mg of Cranberry Extract
Melatonin (for sleep)
ECA Stack (for energy and/or extra fat burning)
T3 (i havent used t3 yet, but your thyroid will slow down if you are on DNP long enough, so you may wanna take some to counteract that if t3 is up your alley)
WATER (as much as you think you can drink but id say no more than 5 gal/day)
Postassium (some people take a potassium supplement while on, i didnt but i suppose it wouldnt hurt anything)

that should be about it. i cant think of anything else, but its late so i may be forgetting something. just make sure you have all your supps before you start. and be safe.

[Ambulance]

thanks bro, good list.

Remember, I'm not doing this for a year...but I'm sure others on this board will be doing it before me so it would benefit us all if you can post your shopping lists and dosages.

[Ambulance]

bump

[wingsofazrael]

i was thinking about using high dosages of acetyl l-carnitine, acetyl l-tyrosine, and BCAA's to help with the fat burning. im almost convinced that aminos can play a bigger role in fat burning that most people think. but we will see. thinking about trying kynoselen as well, but not with the DNP, but bump for some info about why not to.

[ColdSore]

added to the list should be how much test they crusied along with it to prevent catabolism. Or is it possible to go without?

[RON]

added to the list should be how much test they crusied along with it to prevent catabolism. Or is it possible to go without?

DNP is not catabolic at all. The test is usually because your work out sucks if you can get any in at all. IMO if your running DNP for a first time do not use test. I didn't. I might through it in this time but I'm still no 100% sure I want to yet.

Multivitamin
Vitamin E: 1000mgs/day
Vitamin C: 3g/day
ALA: 1000mgs/day
Milkthistle 1000mg/day
Cranberry Juice
Calcium
T-3 (didn't last time but its on my list for my next one)
Also I take electrolyte tablets. Never seen anyone else taking this but it made sense to me.

Oh yea and the nasty V-8 crap too

[Gilster]

Green tea extract
ALA
Milkthistle
L-Carnitine
Vitamins E, C
Calcium
Cranberry extract
ECA along with the DNP
Water...Any more than 3 gallons a day is too much and dangerous.
t-3

I have done DNP about 6 times but not for a long while now...Be carefull......BTW, I will never do it again. You just never know.

[Harvey Balboner]

I just used it, and i gotta say it is not that bad, as long as you are not a dumbass you will be fine. Lost 6 pounds of pure fat in 10 days.

took these as supps

2 regular multivitamin
4 grams of vitamin C
2000 IU of vitamin E
800mg of ALA
1333mg of Magnesium
2400mg of Calcium (not with magnesium)
1000mg of Milk Thistle

Drank several glasses of V8 daily for potassium, and milk for more calcium. Also was drinking about 2 gallons of water a day.

[Ambulance]

Hey glister, what doses did you run bro?

Thanks to everyone for your responses so far. Keep em coming! Maybe this can be a sticky if we get enough replies...

[Gilster]

Hey glister, what doses did you run bro?

I have run doses from 200mgs/d for as long as 16 days to shorter ones of 600mgs/d for 5 days but it was powder not crystal...I have used crystal DNP and powder DNP....The best results were with Crystal DNP at 400mgs/d for 8 days but I thought I was going to die because of how horrible I felt. I really felt like death would have been a relief the last day. I did drop 14 lbs of pure fat and nothing else with that cycle...I did not see the total fat los til about 8 days after I stopped the DNP. Body fat went from 17% to 11%. I also do a few other things after I use DNP that I will not share here because it is too dangerous, and I do not want that on my concience...The week after is when you will lose all the fat, at least that is when you will dry up and see it. You will actually get bloated big time if your diet is right and you drink enough water...Like I said before...I will not ever use DNP again...well, unless I can find real crystal DNP, and I have not seen any new REAL Crystal DNP in a about 3 years. Then again maybe not, cause I feel horrible on it...Warning tho bro..the sides can be a little frightening..I have actually hallucinated with DNP..I had yellow splotches in my vision once that scared the crap out of me. Almost wound up in the ER..Luckily it went away...SO DON'T USE DNP...

You see my signature?....Johnny_U was the smartest bro who ever came on these boards...He was only 22 and going for his PHD in Bio-chemical engineering. He held several patents on new medications he came up with. He was a going to be a millionair waiting to graduate so he could sell them to the pharmaceutical companies. He taught me everything about DNP that I knew for my first DNP cycle..He did DNP several times and successfully....Yet he died from a bad reaction to DNP about 6 months before he graduated. Don't use DNP...I have NEVER reccomended it and NEVER will....His death is the biggest reason why I will NEVER do DNP again.

[Ambulance]

bump...looking for at least 4 more peoples shopping lists...cycleon, dr evil, etc?

[Billy_Bathgate]

I throw in an extra multi-vitamin, Vit C, and rALA. Thats it.

Lots of water and some A/C.

[Hyperlite]

I throw in an extra multi-vitamin, Vit C, and rALA. Thats it.

Lots of water and some A/C.

This is pretty much what i do also. I've run it 3 times now and just finished up a week long cycle at 400mg.

Here is what my list:
Mult-vitamin
Vit C- I like to take 6000mg
ALA- I only take 400mg
Vit E
Lots of water
Food high in phytochemicals ( ie. brocolli, tomatoes, etc.)
ECA is a MUST for me, DNP makes me REALLY hungry

screw t3 and all that other crap

[Ammar]

I dont mean to "steal" the post or anything but when you guys say you cant get a good workout in while on DNP, does that mean you should not workout at all while you are on it?

Or just do cardio?

BUMP, interesting thread.

[RON]

Or just do cardio?

Cardio... no way. Last time I worked out the first half of my cycle and the second half I just sat around and suffered. I didn't even post here much I felt so tired and run down

[majorpecs]

DNP will def. make you lethargic...there were days at work the first time I ran it, that I could not keep my eyes open. I had to hide and take a slight nap just to survive the day......

[Billy_Bathgate]

Ive ran all of the following

600mg for 7 days
875mg for 25 days
200mg crystal for 8 days


I at one point did go to 925mg during my 25 day run. It was hell. Thought I was going to die. Woke up very hot, looked in the mirror and saw a ghost. I then proceeded to have a severe bowel movement while simultaneously vomiting. I ended up taking about a 45min pure ice cold shower to calm down.

I never worked out during any of the runs. Soon as Im on it Im done for. I dont move much at all. It really kills all my energy.

The stuff does work, but its holy hell. I really doubt Ill do it again. Just didnt seem worth it to me. Id rather eat and enjoy life some and just kinda cut back on the calories..hell maybe even do cardio for a change, instead of DNP.

I will say, drink lots of water and monitor your body temperature many many times a day. I believe the highest I allowed myself to stay at was around 100F. Higher than that and I get a cool wet rag and a fan cranked up to cool back down. I took my temp usually every hour or two.

The yellow stains and puddles of sweat are pretty nasty though too...

[Ambulance]

Thanks bathgate. bump for more users' shopping lists and dosages...ain't lettin this die yet!!

[Ambulance]

Thanks bathgate. bump for more users' shopping lists and dosages...ain't lettin this die yet!!

I'm gonna be a dxck and bump this again...vets, mods, experienced users.... shopping lists and dosages please.

[roch]

good thread. how about when you guys take the dnp? does everyone wait twelve hours between pills and take 2 pills in the am and one at night when your at 600mgs or do you split the dosages evenly throughout the day? what have you done and why?

[BDTR]

Ambulance, if you're thinking of trying DNP, you should invest in a good coffin. You're the only person ive encountered in my entire life who has almost died taking clenbuterol and ive been around for quite some time. In all honesty if i didn't feel like such a rat i would absolutely email your source right now and tell him not to sell you any for your own good. Just run on a ****ing treadmill and cut your calories back.

[Gilster]

Ambulance, if you're thinking of trying DNP, you should invest in a good coffin. You're the only person ive encountered in my entire life who has almost died taking clenbuterol and ive been around for quite some time. In all honesty if i didn't feel like such a rat i would absolutely email your source right now and tell him not to sell you any for your own good. Just run on a ****ing treadmill and cut your calories back.

IMO, this is the single best post EVER made on a message board EVER...Thank you bdtr for helping me get this message out. If I knew his source I would email him myself and I do not care if he hates me. I DO NOT WANT TO SEE ANYONE ELSE GO THRU DEATH FOR A WHILE.

[Ambulance]

Hey man... I do plenty of running, just come from a severe obese family and I was obese my whole life as well but with 2 years of work eating clean and cardio pulled off over 17% bodyfat.

DNP isn't going to happen for a long time, if it even does. I'm gonna get some and have it, in case it ever gets pulled off the market. But I assure you it will not be in my body for quite some time. I don't have the time to take off from my band's touring or my part time job to be able to sit home and sweat for 10 days.

I OD'd on clen because my body was almost at zero taurine and potasium when I took it, and took too much because I only had experience with regular syringes for dosing not slin needles. When I made it into the ER sure enough my potasium was at a complete zero. The banana I had eaten apparently hadn't released itself into my system nor the sugar free taurine drink.

Right now I'm playing around with high doses of ephedra spiked with extra aspiran and doing well.

I chose to start this thread so that by the time I chose to run it, which is 50/50 if I even will, I'll have a killer shopping list. I haven't learned too much I didn't already know about DNP but have seen some extra safeguards that the read-me's and stickys hadn't mentioned.

I honestly think this is a great thread. And your a great bro for the concern. You'll be the first person I inform of before, if i even, decide to run it... and it wont be for quite a long time. I'm still on prop/fina and have lots of natural cutting to do in the upcoming year before playing with DNP.

[BDTR]

I'm sorry i came off as harsh... its just i dont see any use for DNP unless its to make weight for something or some competetion.

[Billy_Bathgate]

I'm sorry i came off as harsh... its just i dont see any use for DNP unless its to make weight for something or some competetion.

To be honest, I used it so I could sit on my ass and eat whatever I wanted. I jsut needed a break from the diet and cardio route. I prefer the latter though after going through it.

[GearAholic]

awsome thread

[Ambulance]

You always could but being the nature of western union i could just make another fake name and use a buddy address.

Thanks for the concern, but realize I have lottttts of time before i, if i even, run some DNP. I'm going natural cutting route for quite a wile. Be supportive that I'm doing this much research before even ordering let alone even taking it

And to BDTR and glister, no prob guys.. thanks for the tough love.

Can this be made a sticky? theres lots of good info in here!

[roch]

dude, I appreciate this thread as I have just started my first ever dnp cycle. I've gotten lots of info off this board and have studied it for over a year. I'm no expert and no I'm not trying to make weight, I was very obese at one time and just want to get rid of that last bit of stubborn fat. It took me 3 years to get over 75 pounds of fat off, and go from a 54" waist to a 34" but I need the extra help. I've done all the other stuff and have ran my ass off. I just want to be happy with my body for once again. hell look at my avatar, that was only after 50 pounds of loss. I know you guys might not agree with my decision, but you have done it and any info to help keep me alive is very much appreciated. I wouldn't state that on here if I didn't mean it. thats why I'm a part of this board, for the support and honesty that comes from it. no bull**** needed here.

thanks guys.

[BDTR]

This thread honestly makes me wish i never posted my DNP experiences so now everyone thinks its safe. It is absolutely NOT SAFE. You know why my cycle stopped a week short? Because I was pretty sure i was going to die, and guess what? Once its in you its in you. I spent 4 hours hunched over a toilet vomitting violently praying it would leave my system, but it wouldn't. That was a big scare for me. You want to lose a couple more lbs? id much rather see you using a high dose of t3 than DNP. It may take a few weeks more, but you'll get the same results. Oh and ambulance, if i told your source not to sell you it, he wouldn't sell you it, all it would take would be one email and he would clear through me who he would sell it to. This isn't like selling steriods. Do you know why im worried? Because you almost died from liquid clen you said was overdosed... guess what? I could drink a bottle of liquid clen and i would live, but your body clearly couldnt' handle it yet you want to put an extremely volitile substance into your body? In all honesty, with all the research in the world, if there was a booky taking bets, id place all my money on the fact that you'll land in the hospital or worse.

Get some t3 and run a low dose of test, BAM, fats gone. Dont forget to do cardio and diet.

[palme]

Ambulance OD´d from clen? And now he wants to try DNP?


Good luck!

[BDTR]

Ya bro, he took too much cus he measured it wrong or something and almost died.

[TxLonghorn]

Contrary to what most people have posted on this thread, dnp is safer than clen. Yeah, I know what you are gonna say, but hold off on the personal attacks. It's the truth. The problem with dnp is that everybody is so scared of it. I liken it to the average person's perception of gear...if you take gear, you will be angry all the time, your dick will shrink, you will try to kill people, and you will probably die.

The fact is, it is not that simple to od on dnp. Can you do it? Absolutely. But I can count the number of deaths attributed to dnp on my dick, and that one had 'extenuating' circumstances not related to dnp. At this point there are too many myths floating around about dnp.

Having said that, it's not cotton candy either. Be reasonable, err on the side of caution, and you will be fine. Take one cap at 200mg and see how that makes you feel. Do another the next day. Don't just up your dose because you aren't feeling it. Take it slow and you'll be very happy with the results. Will you want to deal with the sides ever again after your initial run of dnp? Who knows. It probably depends on how gung-ho you are the first time.

Most who take 200mg/day feel limited sides but significant fatloss. This is the level I would recommend.

As for a shopping list, ditch the t3. Take taurine, that will help the conversion of t4 to t3. Other than that, there really isn't anything I would take extra that I already don't taken. That includes a multi-vit, multi-min, ala, and a multi-antiox. Oh, and dnp IS catabolic. Yes it will burn fat faster than muscle, but it will burn muscle as well. Adding t3 will help you burn muscle however. So I guess if that's what you want, add the t3.

On a final note, if you have any doubts about dnp, don't take it. However, used correctly, there is no other more effective fatloss agent or agents out there. Period.

[DesertThunder]

I know I am out of my league here but... what does dnp do to your body chemically? a brief answer would be great

[Gilster]

I know I am out of my league here but... what does dnp do to your body chemically? a brief answer would be great

Though now the similar theme is hotly discussed in many groups of news of the Internet, DNP " bond not new. On a boundary of century the French and Germans used it for various manufacture. As during manufacture workers of factories contacted with DNP which might be adsorbed through a skin the condition of these workers has specified expressed influence DNP, they lost weight! Loss of weight at the workers, caused DNP, has drawn attention of physicians Stanford University which in 1931 have lead the researches which are finding out, that DNP " effective to burn Adeps. It was, actually, first of the offered medical products of dump of weight. In July, 1933 in the next release of magazine of the American Medical association (JAMA) three doctors from San Francisco in every possible way praised to the skies action DNP as effective Adeps to burn, speaking thus about his safety. «DNP, " they wrote, " raises rate of a metabolism, and in small doses at all is not harmful item.

DNP " yellow firm crystalline substance, slightly soluble in water, alcohol-soluble or a simple Aether. Getting in an organism, it is less, than in one minute, raises rate of a metabolism on the average on 30 percents. Rate of a metabolism comes back to norm approximately in 6-48 hours after the use on a dose and a course of reception.

Researches of authors of clause have shown, that application DNP in a dosage 3-5 mg on each kg of weight of a body results in rising rate Metabolism on 25-30 % in current of 24 hours, the normal metabolism is restored for the following three days. Some person have reset(dumped) the whole 20 pounds of Adeps in 6 weeks of reception DNP without any change of a ration. In the meantime, DNP the beginnings to occur in bodybuilding , though and in circumscribed scales.

One of the purpose of application DNP body builders also is the way of restoration of the broken regulation of androgenic receptors in a cell, " the wide-spread and fast phenomenon after body builders rely on typical use of anabolic steroids "about applying item".

As DNP is a potent dehydrating agent, the sportsmen, accepting Dinitrophenol, strongly recommended to drink at least, 1-2 gallons of a liquid per day. Attempt to lower would result the maintenance(contents) of water in a fatal hyperthermia or to a uncontrollable fervescence. The last year, due to diligence of the person, giving interview to correspondent IRONMAN, Dinitrophenol became even more known to general public. The latest references on use DNP include his(its) combination with a plenty of active thyroid preparations, such as Cytomel. References here concern to accept Dinitrophenol together with an insulin. As is known the Insulin is the strongest anabolic, but DNP blocks negative effect an insulin to keep Adeps. Thus you receive from the Insulin only maximal anabolic effect. Scientists name the mechanism of action DNP about separated ocsidative fosforilathion (dissociation of a respiratory chain). Simply speaking, it(he) causes a fast attrition of stocks ATF in mitochondrions " those parts of cells where it is made ATF. ATF " it is an immediate source of all energy of an organism All nutrition, switching and carbohydrates, finally will turn in ATF the most elementary fuel. Settling(exhausting) cellular ATF, DNP compels an organism to use as fuel fatty adjournment.

Influence DNP is, that this substance sharply raises processes of oxidation. Nothing will be compared with DNP on a degree of oxidation caused by him(it) in mitochondrions. Promises of loss up to 1 pound per day sound seductively not only for cgjhncvtys. Any of us is capable to estimate action of this product. The author of these lines himself accepted DNP and may assure you that an opportunity of loss of 1 pound of Adeps per day not a limit. Keeping an elementary diet, it(he) lost up to 2.2 pounds of Adeps per day

[Gilster]

I know I am out of my league here but... what does dnp do to your body chemically? a brief answer would be great

Sorry bro but there are no brief answers when it comes to DNP..This one is from AR's profiles.

DNP

The substance; 2, 4-Dinitrophenol has many other brand names such as, 1 Hydroxy-2,4-dinitrophenol, Solfo Black, Nitrophen, Aldifen, and Chemox are just a few and is among many things, a metabolic stimulant. That is it's popularity here in our world, it burns fat like no other. Let me just tell you of it's other uses before I continue. First, it is a toxic dye, chemically related to Trinitrophenol (Picric Acid), second, it is found in insecticides, wood preservatives, herbicides, explosives, and is also a hazardous material. Third, it is used in science to couple or attach to DNA molecules. All of this should tell you that it is not a run-of-the-mill metabolic stimulant, like Clenbuterol or Triacana or Ephedrine or any other for that matter. Here is DNP's tox faq's from the international chemical safety cards to you give an idea of what it is considered to be; Combustible. Gives off irritating or toxic fumes (or gases) in a fire. Risk of fire and explosion. DO NOT expose to friction or shock. MAY BE ABSORBED! Redness. Roughness. Yellow staining on the skin. PHYSICAL STATE; APPEARANCE: YELLOW CRYSTALS ROUTES OF EXPOSURE: The substance can be absorbed into the body by inhalation, through the skin and by ingestion. PHYSICAL DANGERS: Dust explosion possible if in powder or granular form, mixed with air. INHALATION RISK: Evaporation at 20°C is negligible; a harmful concentration of airborne particles can, however, be reached quickly. CHEMICAL DANGERS: May explosively decompose on shock, friction, or concussion. May explode on heating. Shock-sensitive compounds are formed with alkalis, ammonia and most metals. The substance decomposes on heating producing toxic gases including nitrogen oxides. EFFECT OF SHORT-TERM EXPOSURE: The substance may cause effects on metabolism, resulting in very high body temperature. Exposure may result in death. EFFECTS OF LONG TERM OR REPEATED EXPOSURE: Repeated or prolonged contact with skin may cause dermatitis. The substance may have effects on the peripheral nervous system. The substance may have effects on the eyes, resulting in cataracts. Boiling point: sublimes °C, Melting point: 112°C, Relative density (water = 1): 1.68. Solubility in water, g/100 ml at 54.5°C: 0.14. Relative vapor density (air = 1): 6.36. This product is handled and shipped in a 15% solution of water, making it a paste, so that it will not explode due to shock or friction.

DNP is an uncoupling agent that inhibits the flow of electrons and the pumping of H+ ions for ATP synthesis. Fifty years ago it was used for weight loss, however, in 1938 the FDA removed it from the counter, as it caused cataracts and even sometimes death. If electron transport does not produce ATP, then much more sugar must be metabolized for energy needs. Very low production of ATP would be lethal. In oxidative phosphorylation, the flow of electrons from NADH (the reduced form of NAD+, oxidized from NAD. This enzyme is important in accepting electrons in the course of metabolic reactions. When NAD+ gives up it's electron, it is converted to it's reduced form NADH) and FADH2 (the reduced form of FAD) to oxygen results in the pumping of H+ from the matrix to the inner membrane space of the mitochondria. This gradient of H+ can produce ATP by flowing through ATP synthetase in the mitochondrial inner membrane. Dinitrophenol disrupts the H+ gradient reducing ATP synthesis. Under these conditions, much of the food that we eat could not be used for ATP synthesis and we lose weight. However, too much inhibitor and we could make too little ATP for life. The difference between weight loss and death is only a small concentration change in dinitrophenol, making the drug dangerous. Simply put, this means that while eating your normal diet, you will have somewhere between 20% and 40% reduction of calories.

You may now be wondering just what kind of dose would be effective, but not harmful. A dose of 2mg/kg/day (or two mgs per kg of body weight per day) would be an effective dose, causing the loss of about 5 to 10 pounds in a 10 to 14 day period, maybe less. So, a person weighing 200 lbs would weigh about 91 kgs, so 2mgs per kg of body weight would be the equivalent of 182 mgs of DNP per day, but since it typically comes in 200 mg capsules, you would take one cap per day. Since DNP has this inhibiting effect, glycolosis is inhibited as well, causing a diabetic effect due to the conversion of glucose without insulin, so you may have heard that people take insulin with DNP. This will counter act the symptoms of lethargy and lack of energy due to DNP's use.

How TxLonghorn can say that is is safer than clen is mind boggling to me after reading this again.

[Gilster]

Here are a few more facts I found like the above posts with a simple search.

2,4-Dinitrophenol can effect you when breathed in and by passing through your skin.

2,4-Dinitrophenol can cause reproductive damage. Handle with extreme caution.

2,4-Dinitrophenol is a FLAMMABLE LIQUID and a FIRE HAZARD.
Contact can irritate the skin. Long term exposure may cause dermatitis.

2,4-Dinitrophenol can irritate the eyes, and may cause clouding of the eye lenses (cataracts).

Breathing 2,4-Dinitrophenol can irritate the nose and throat.

High or repeated exposure can affect the nervous system causing nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, convulsions and even death.

2,4-Dinitrophenol may damage the liver and kidneys.

2,4-Dinitrophenol is on the Hazardous Substance List because it is cited by EPA and DOT.

2,4-Dinitrophenol may cause mutations (genetic changes) in living cells.

Whether or not it poses a cancer or reproductive hazard needs further study.

2,4-Dinitrophenol has not been tested for its ability to cause cancer in animals.

2,4-Dinitrophenol is a FLAMMABLE LIQUID (depending upon carrier solvent) or an explosive solid.

I sure as hell am not going to say this s h i t is safe ever. DNP IS NOT SAFE.