Senior Member
just curious..
i was thinking about this the other night and had to ask...
what if u started a low dose of test and peeked the dosage in the very middle of your cycle..then pryramidded back down to a very low dose just like u started....
would this gradual increase and decrease be good for the body.. would it even require PCT???
OR would it just really mess up your hormone levels??
just curious ..im not thinking about this so please dont flame haha
Anabolic Member
It's not needed. The ester of your test will taper it in your body for you so health wise there's no need. And all you'd really be doing is cutting out optimal growth time. This being when your levels are peaked and consistent. Dips and peaks are no good. It's an older idea that used to be used but has since been realized as useless and hindering if anything.Originally Posted by frank_frank
Anabolic Member
It's not needed. The ester of your test will taper it in your body for you so health wise there's no need. And all you'd really be doing is cutting out optimal growth time. This being when your levels are peaked and consistent. Dips and peaks are no good. It's an older idea that used to be used but has since been realized as useless and hindering if anything.
Anabolic Member
It's not needed. The ester of your test will taper it in your body for you so health wise there's no need. And all you'd really be doing is cutting out optimal growth time. This being when your levels are peaked and consistent. Dips and peaks are no good. It's an older idea that used to be used but has since been realized as useless and hindering if anything.
Anabolic Member
F*ckin' computer!
Senior Member
lolF*ckin' computer!
..........
ya i was just wondering i dont know what made me think of it
any others?
Banned
He pretty much summed it up.
http://www.bigdogbodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=412
Member
I'm pyramiding at the moment. I don't know enough about esters to have it clear in my mind, but by the sounds of it you've been thinking the same thoughts as me, that the gradual decrease of synthetic test in the blood from pyramiding might allow for a better recovery of natural testosterone levels. When I was doing juice 5 or so years ago it was standard practice, no-one ever told me any different anyhow. I don't know of any "official" write ups on the subject, maybe someone can help with that. (I'm still doing PCT by the way)
Anabolic Member
The old school thinking of tapering is that you could restore your test levels if you slowly came off and down. In many studies this theory has been proven wrong. Tapering is not necessary and theoretically incorrect. No matter what tapering method you may think works, you still go through a complete test depletion and over flow of estrogen to compensate. The only way to stop the estrogen flush is with a serm or AI and clomid therapy for HPTA restoration. That or you can do a tapering method and go through the crash and suffer potential gyno symptoms.
Banned
Tapering is detrimental, if anything.....it wastes valuable days/weeks where you could be at peak plasma levels. tapering is a waste for the very same reason that you don't start pct the day after your last test E shot; you still have test in your body. The ester of the gear takes care of the gradual decrease in plasma levels. There really isn't any debate about it.....tapering is a waste.
Respected Member
Anabolic Member
But, what about the DEA sponsored website you just posted that on? Won't they know now and come get you from a continent away. Tapering is illegal you know.
Respected Member
lol.
Member
See thread "Buying syringes"
Member
Einstein, read thread on link, but although numbers are quoted there is no explanation of the reason for these numbers. Why would the plasma level be higher a week after a half dose injection than it is for the full dose injection? (plasma levels for week 8 in option B are higher than those in week 9 of option A even though half the dose of option A was adminstered in option B) I admit I don't know anything about biological and bio-chemical issues, but want to learn so I find the lack of explanation puzzling. I cannot accept the stating of numbers as fact without an understanding of the processes that explain them.
Banned
Keep in mind here, that 500mg/wk was injected for weeks 1-8 in option A, whereas 500mg/wk was injected weeks 1-6 in option B. This shows plasma levels for week 9 of option A are equal to that of week 8 from B. No injections are occurring after week 8 in either case. The reason for a higher plasma level in option A at a later time is because the last 2 weeks of the 8 week cycle did NOT involve tapering. These are both 8 week cycles, where plasma concentrations are depleted at the same rate (so, theregoes the theory of abrupt drops in plasma levels), based on the compound's half-life. By NOT tapering, you have weks 7 and 8 in option A, where your plasma levels are considerably higher than in B, plus you have higher plasma levels for a longer period of time after ceasing injection, even though these are both 8 week cycles......you effectively gain 2 more weeks at peak plasma levels, and the decrease in plasma levels is at the exact same rate as with the tapered option.....no abrupt drops in plasma levels, contrary to myth.
"All of the following are arbitrary numbers and aren't meant to depict actual pharmacokinetics, with the exception of diminishing plasma concentrations due to half-lives.
Assume you are going to run an 8 week cycle, and that you you are injecting 500mg/wk of a compound with a 1 week half-life. For arguments sake, let's say you've established a constant plasma level of 1000ng/dL (arbitrary).
Situation A) You continue to inject 500mg/wk all the way through week 8 and then stop cold turkey
Situation B) You inject 500mg/wk weeks 1-6, week 7 you inject 250mg, and week 8 you inject 125mg.
Your plasma concentrations for each situation will be as follows:
A: wk 9= 500ng/dL, week 10= 250ng/dL, week 11= 125ng/dL, week 12= 62.5ng/dL
B: wk7= 750ng/dL, wk 8= 500ng/dL, week 9= 250ng/dL, wk 10= 125ng/dL, wk 11= 62.5ng/dL
So, you'll see that tapering doesn't do anything advantageous for us. The half-life of the compound takes care of the tapering for you. All tapering does is shorten the period of your cycle where you have a consistent peak plasma level, which reduces the time during which you'll see maximal gains."
Anabolic Member
What do you guys think about pyrimiding High dosages??? I remember when pyrimiding was the thing to do and at that time My doses where not that high. But now when Ive done these last couple cycles I have noticed that using todays ways I seem to be throwing my body into shock. Using prop and orals to get my cycle going immediatly. From reading the steroid bible and Bill phillips anabolic reveiw, those books incouraged pyrimiding saying that your body gets dependent on the hormones for different functions like the immune system. I have noticed alot of people saying that they get flu like symptoms when starting a cycle, they probally would not experiance this if they pyrimiding.
Member
Cheers einstein, but what I was referring to was the fact that in week 7 in option B it says that plasma levels are at 750ng, whilst option A never gets higher than 500ng. How do they reach this level only in option B?
And I too am interested in the point that anhydro has made and the answer to the question that he has posed.
Banned
Because in option A the injections are at 500mg/wk weeks 1-8, and a steady state plasma levels has been reached.....assume that at week 6 in either case that a steady state plasma level has been reached....then consider options A and B....In A the steady state plasma level is maintained for 2 additional weeks, but in B, the steady plasma levels start to reduce after week 6.
In regards to the 2nd part, pyramiding even high doses still accomplishes the same thing on the back end. You could argue that pyrimiding UP at the begining may have merit, but that really hasn't shown to be worthwhile, as many even frontload at 2x doses at the start of cycles with no adverse effects. pyramiding is pyramiding, and the rate at which the AAS leave your body is the same, assuming the same esters are used.
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