why do we need some estrogine 2 grow?

[hosam4ever]

thats the question that iam trieng 2 find its answer this days so can any body help me will b appreciated
thnx in advance

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I think estrogen dont contribute the anabolic process but its important in the body for the joints & bones i think if there anyone think am wrong correct me please.

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[SPIKE]

Personally, I like a little estrogen in my cycles. AI's are overused and could hinder LBM gains from my point of view. I see so many people offering AI's in everyones cycles but that isnt always the best thing to do.

I have also seen literature that suggests that estrogen plays a role in the production of GH and IGF-1. Plus it can also increase androgen receptor levels is certain tissues........

I think most people are so afraid of Estrogen when keeping a lil bit in our cycles can hold some water which in turn will hold more building material as well.

I am using an AI in my next cycle for the first time ever. I'd just prefer to speak a little bit from experience in my upcoming cutter.......

[hosam4ever]

thnxs jay
anyone else

[][-][ ][-][ ][-][]

Personally, I like a little estrogen in my cycles. AI's are overused and could hinder LBM gains from my point of view. I see so many people offering AI's in everyones cycles but that isnt always the best thing to do.

I have also seen literature that suggests that estrogen plays a role in the production of GH and IGF-1. Plus it can also increase androgen receptor levels is certain tissues........

I think most people are so afraid of Estrogen when keeping a lil bit in our cycles can hold some water which in turn will hold more building material as well.

I am using an AI in my next cycle for the first time ever. I's just prefer to speak a little bit from experience in my upcoming cutter.......

Well said Jay with my last 2 cycles i never used any anti & noticed better gains but i didnt like to talk about it because 99% of the people here scared to death from gyno well i did the surgery & dont have this problem at all so am with you in your opinion.

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[SPIKE]

Well said Jay with my last 2 cycles i never used any anti & noticed better gains but i didnt like to talk about it because 99% of the people here scared to death from gyno well i did the surgery & dont have this problem at all so am with you in your opinion.

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This doesnt surprise me one bit.

I prefer SERMS for myself b/c I have experienced any estrogen related sides, at least with some Nolva it can have a more psoticve effect on lipid panel. As I stated earlier I like a little Estrogen. I'd only recommend taking an AI if one is really succeptibel to estro realted sides. I'm even contemplating taking the Aromasin out of my cycle, I'd rather get more bang for my buck and drop the water when I'm done...........

[hosam4ever]

anyone else

[Booz]

Personally, I like a little estrogen in my cycles. AI's are overused and could hinder LBM gains from my point of view. I see so many people offering AI's in everyones cycles but that isnt always the best thing to do.

I have also seen literature that suggests that estrogen plays a role in the production of GH and IGF-1. Plus it can also increase androgen receptor levels is certain tissues........

I think most people are so afraid of Estrogen when keeping a lil bit in our cycles can hold some water which in turn will hold more building material as well.

I am using an AI in my next cycle for the first time ever. I's just prefer to speak a little bit from experience in my upcoming cutter.......

my sentiments exactly jay,you know i never advise to take them unless gyno prone,i never use them,but with the dose of test i am goin to run in my summer cycle i may just use a little!

[SPIKE]

with the dose of test i am goin to run in my summer cycle i may just use a little!

For most that really arent succeptible anything under 1g a week a SERM can be used at most. Its when you start getting into 1200-1500mgs+ a week where and AI may be more beneficial........

What are the contemplated doses Booz? PM me so went dont clog up a really good thread..........

[hosam4ever]

bump

[Swifto]

I think you've said it all Jay.

I do know that a little estrogen and water retention can help with strength/mass gains. Estrogen isnt all bad after all.

And yes, I believe the use of SERM's can compromise strength/muscle gains. But thats the whole argument of, 'Will using Nolva prevent my gains on a cycle' question?

[vitor]

Having high estrogen-levels can do more than cause gyno, bloating. When doing a cycle the estrogen-buildup can cause estrogen-spike after a cycle, which is very supressing on HPTA.

Having lots of estrogen floating around will also make it more difficult to lose fat, and even cause "Female pattern fat distribution in males". (The only reasen why some people think they gain less when using AI, is because they have less water-weight.)

High estrogen have no busniess being in a man body, Imo.

[SPIKE]

A thread as this can really help many people out. It can open the eyes of some and with different tactics can increase gains. Some can cut out their AI's and get more gains rather then upping doses to do so. Or others can rethink their current doses depending on goals.

I'm not saying to not use AI's as its based on goal. I can't see using an AI in a bulker unless someone is very prone to gyno or other related sides. You can still put on lean mass with a little water for the ride. It's not even funny how quickly that water can diminish if taken the correct steps.

I haev to say I have a bad feeling its not going to last long unless you keep bumping it Hosam. LOL

[hosam4ever]

i know vitor but we r talking about the benifits of a decent amout of estrogin

[Booz]

thers a pm wingin its way to you jay!

[hosam4ever]

ill do jay but with ur help for sure bro

[SPIKE]

Having high estrogen-levels can do more than cause gyno, bloating. When doing a cycle the estrogen-buildup can cause estrogen-spike after a cycle, which is very supressing on HPTA.

Having lots of estrogen floating around will also make it more difficult to lose fat, and even cause "Female pattern fat distribution in males". (The only reasen why some people think they gain less when using AI, is because they have less water-weight.)

High estrogen have no busniess being in a man body, Imo.

Just as you stated it Vitor, HIGH ESTROGEN isnt desirable. Thats why I tried to stress the point of "a little" estrogen. I think that will take us back at the post I directed towards Booz with certain doses.

[velvetlion]

I believe that having too low of estrogen levels can also raise cholesterol.

[hosam4ever]

i`ve never heard of this b4 velvetion this is the first time

[vitor]

Just as you stated it Vitor, HIGH ESTROGEN isnt desirable. Thats why I tried to stress the point of "a little" estrogen. I think that will take us back at the post I directed towards Booz with certain doses.

Yeah, and some people are estrogen sensitive while others arent. I have a friend who got gyno from only 250mgs test ew. Another guy might a take a gram ew, with no problems.

Having a little water will make you a little stronger and ease up the joints a bit, but I cant see any other benefits, really!

[hosam4ever]

bump

[velvetlion]

i`ve never heard of this b4 velvetion this is the first time

Let me see if I can dig up the info. on this. I believe that I read it in a book. It stated that in an experiment those with higher estrogen levels kept lower cholesterol levels and vice versa. Not sure the science behind it, but let me look and see if I can find the exact article.

Jay may also be able to elaborate on this.

[SPIKE]

Yeah, and some people are estrogen sensitive while others arent. I have a friend who got gyno from only 250mgs test ew.

I can totally see that Vitor, I occasionaly hear about cases like that. So is it safe to say that you would recommend anyone taking 250mgs and up of Test to take an AI or SERM? Of course you're going to say no. I always play it safe and have some Nolva on hand. If sides arise then you can easily abolish them with some Nolva. If not then you will have it for PCT anyways, its a win win situation.

For example. As I stated I never have any estrogen related side effects. Even when taking higher doses of test I barely gain any water. Buuuuuuuuuut my last cycle consisted of a 1500mg Frontload then 750mgs for about 3 months. After my inital week at 1500mgs my nipples started to itch. I took 40mgs of Nolvadex for less then a week and a maintenance of 20mgs for another week. After those 2 weeks I stopped the Nolva and ran my 750mgs with no problem. The sides were very temporary and now I know my limits. Next time I run doses that high (If I ever do) I'll know to take precaution before hand.......

[Swifto]

Let me see if I can dig up the info. on this. I believe that I read it in a book. It stated that in an experiment those with higher estrogen levels kept lower cholesterol levels and vice versa. Not sure the science behind it, but let me look and see if I can find the exact article.

Jay may also be able to elaborate on this.

I looked for some studies, but found nothing.

[hosam4ever]

bump

[velvetlion]

I looked for some studies, but found nothing.

I know that I found it in the book (I am not sure if I am supposed to name any other books on here) Anabolics 2005.

I don't have the copy sitting right here, but I know that is where I found that info.

[SPIKE]

I believe that having too low of estrogen levels can also raise cholesterol.

I have read the same, that's why Cholesterol is always something to look out for when taking an AI. SERMS can have a positive effect on cholesterol b/c there is still some estrogen floating around just has no where to go..


I'll look for some studies as well...........

[vitor]

I can totally see that Vitor, I occasionaly hear about cases like that. So is it safe to say that you would recommend anyone taking 250mgs and up of Test to take an AI or SERM? Of course you're going to say no. I always play it safe and have some Nolva on hand. If sides arise then you can easily abolish them with some Nolva. If not then you will have it for PCT anyways, its a win win situation.

For example. As I stated I never have any estrogen related side effects. Even when taking higher doses of test I barely gain any water. Buuuuuuuuuut my last cycle consisted of a 1500mg Frontload then 750mgs for about 3 months. After my inital week at 1500mgs my nipples started to itch. I took 40mgs of Nolvadex for less then a week and a maintenance of 20mgs for another week. After those 2 weeks I stopped the Nolva and ran my 750mgs with no problem. The sides were very temporary and now I know my limits. Next time I run doses that high (If I ever do) I'll know to take precaution before hand.......

I always recomend using some proviron with test, though. Have you tried that? Because of its strong bind to SHBG, there will be much more free test avalible in your body to cause muscle grow. And it lowers estrogen at the same time, but not nearly as much as letro or arimidex.

Test and proviron loves each-other!!

[SPIKE]

Test and proviron loves each-other!!

I knew you loved that stuff buddy, I see you post about it all the time. Good thing Ross isnt around he'd jump all over that one huh?

I have actually never ran Proviron. I'm a true Ectomorph so do all I can for more gains.

It was actually a toss-up between Proviron/Nolva or Aromasin for my upcoming cycle. May just not include any of them and do it the old fashion way. I have 2 weeks left so I still have time to decide. That's a prime example to what I said in one of my inital posts about everyone can learn from a thread like this. When this thread comes to closure maybe I'll have some feedback from others leading me in a different direction. Yoooooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuu never know brotha.....

[Swifto]

I always recomend using some proviron with test, though. Have you tried that? Because of its strong bind to SHBG, there will be much more free test avalible in your body to cause muscle grow. And it lowers estrogen at the same time, but not nearly as much as letro or arimidex.

Test and proviron loves each-other!!

Thats why I'm using it for cycle no. #2!

I wont go into using it for PCT aswell....Or I'll be highjacking!

[diezell]

bump

[O.M.E.G.A]

in helps with

1) joints
2) tendons
3) Sexual function
4) regulation of cell turn over
5) mood

too much is terrible, too little is terrible

to much and it interferes with the bodies ability to actually USE testosterone
even if you have alot floating around
to little and it iwll hinder mood, sex, joints and tendon

[hosam4ever]

bump

[hosam4ever]

bump again

[arnold_of_malta]

if i take 0.5 mg aramidex daily and 50mg proverone daily is it ok ??????????????

[SPIKE]

if i take 0.5 mg aramidex daily and 50mg proverone daily is it ok ??????????????

OK for what?

This is a good thread going, let's not get off topic with personal cycles. A new thread can be started with the layout of your cycle and your proposed question. If and when you start that thread I'll be the first to comment if you PM me the link. Thanks................

[IBdmfkr]

Nice thread, I've done cycles with SERMs and without, with AI and without. Personally in my current cycle I am taking Aromasin and didn't notice much strength loss or any hinder in weight gain. What I liked the most was the fact that it kept the unwanted water and bloat off of me which is a sure sign everyone around you will make comments left and right. Didn't get that this time, more comments about how I looked leaner, more vascular. Not what are you taking etc etc.. Although I put on close to 15-20lbs. I'll be including an AI in probably most of my cycles in the future, the dose will vary though as I have some experimenting to do.

[SPIKE]

Personally in my current cycle I am taking Aromasin and didn't notice much strength loss or any hinder in weight gain.

Thanks for the input BD!!! I was waiting for you to drop a line.

I was wondering how that Drol and AI were going to work out for you. I for sure thought that strength gain was going to be effected, good to see it wasn't.

[hosam4ever]

bump again

[oswaldosalcedo]

thats the question that iam trieng 2 find its answer this days so can any body help me will b appreciated
thnx in advance

i have naturally very low levels of estradiol (estrogen dominant form) and under 1-2 gr of test also,and i grow anyway at good pace.