Long Cycle PCT Recommended........

[thunderdan]

So I have been doing Test C between 400-800mg for about 10 months. I also included 10 weeks of Deca at 400mg per week and replaced Test C with Sust 250 at 500mg per week for 8 weeks during the cycle. I am 32 years old at 5'9 226 lbs.

I am coming off now. Not because I want to but because I feel I need to and my football season is comming to an end. I thought about just doing a HRT dose for awhile but figured getting my natural test levels back to normal was the best thing to do.

So I have an idea about what I need to do, However would like any input you guys may have for me. So if you dont mind posting what has worked for you I would appreciate it.

Thank you in advance.

[peump]

bump

[HORSE~]

Try posting in the pct forum if you dont get your answer here

Here's the link

http://forums.steroid.com/forumdisplay.php?f=77

[Anabolios]

run hcg for a while..id extend your pct to 6+ weeks using clomid,nolva and proviron/ldex (either or) bump for an answer

actually dont bump move to pct forum!

[briansauras]

lots of hcg, clomid, a-dex, nolva, vit e and im sure igf would help you keep alot more of those gains.

[Kale]

Here is the PCT Pheedno recommends for long cycles, I would probably do HCG for a few weeks before the start of PCT as well

Extended protocol sample for a 12+ month cycle:
Day 1-15_ .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 16-45_.25mg L-dex + 75mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 46-65_.25mg L-dex + 20mg Nolva
Day 66-80_.25mg L-dex

[thunderdan]

Thanks for the feedback. When do you suggest I start the HCG? Right after my last shot? And how much do you suggest? And how ofter? Thanks again.

[rock75]

why lots of hcg? with the proper timing of clomid, nolva or another anti-E he should be fine. all the hcg is gonna do is give him a false sense that his balls are working again and there goes his pct.

[Liftnainez]

why lots of hcg? with the proper timing of clomid, nolva or another anti-E he should be fine. all the hcg is gonna do is give him a false sense that his balls are working again and there goes his pct.

[thunderdan]

I have some HCG and dont mind taking it. I will know my balls are working again when I get blood work done and my test levels are back to normal. That is the plan anyways.

[Anabolios]

why lots of hcg? with the proper timing of clomid, nolva or another anti-E he should be fine. all the hcg is gonna do is give him a false sense that his balls are working again and there goes his pct.

seriously..where do these people come from?

[thunderdan]

Any Feedback of the freq. and amount of HCG, also when to start it?

[rock75]

the same place as you

[Kale]

This is from a poster who is an MD and uses gear himself. it is a protocol for using HCG during cycle and not PCT, he explains why HCG during PCT can actually inhibit natural test production and recovery.



"I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn?t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn?t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM?s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a ?bridge?. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can?t ?fool? the body?it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground?and we don?t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

Thought this would shed a little light on all the HCG questions during cycle."

[rock75]

where did he come from ,

The first part of my original post was a question. The second was my reasoning as to why not "lots of hcg" as previously posted by another member, becuase after all this is a discussion board where lots of new ppl join everyday to get the best available information.

The MD states HCG is used "to maintain form and function" but isn't it a fact that when you add extra test to your body, it will halt production becuase it has more than normal, so it doesn't need to produce as much on its own. The "form" is the swelling of the testicles, which shrink when not in production, the "function" is halted by the addition of extra test. HCG swells the testicles, raises estrogen levels caused by the perceived increased levels of "natural test" that your body thinks the testicles are producing when in fact they are not. I can however see his view as to use it through-out the cycle to keep the "form" so to recover at the end faster, but isn't this all if your suffer from testicular atrophy - which not all ppl do - so a blank statement of "lots of Hcg" isn't always the norm.

(I mean no disrespect in what I am saying here, just having a discussion)