State Militia's (vid)

[Flagg]

Sort of a straw man argument you are trying to set up there Flagg. While many of us here think that what these guys are doing is very patriotic, we shouldn't be criticized because we wouldn't do it right now. You have to understand that being a part of a group like that has very serious consequences for ones personal and professional life. You are put onto watch lists, red flagged, and your behavior and financial records can become scrutinized. Going out and joining a group like this is just the type of thing that causes you to suddenly get audited by the IRS, or be sought out for arrest for unpaid parking tickets, or be put on the chopping block if you hold any sort of government job. The government punishes people like this who dare to exercise their rights. Freedom's do often times come with a cost.

Take for instance what happened to Joe the Plumber. After making remarks that were unpopular about President Obama, government workers in his state looked his name up in databases, and went after him for unpaid taxes from years and years ago, a small sum of about $1,500 dollars. In addition, they used the databases to find out he wasn't a licensed plumber causing him to loose his job. All of this because President Obama approached him and he had the audacity to exercise his freedom of speech and be of the opinion that Obama's policies were socialist in nature. This is one of the ways the government curtails freedom of speech, by making financial and social consequences to exercising those rights.

It is easy for people to be members of these groups if they hold menial jobs or are retired. It is quite another story for a large portion of the middle class who hold jobs with a mild degree of responsibility or public trust to join such a group that is politically unpopular. In some localities around the United States, just being a member of the wrong political party can have serious consequences for a person's career. I suspect if things became TRULY bad enough in this country a larger percentage of people would be willing to fight in the manner these people are, however that has not come to fruition. They are essentially, jumping the gun on the issue. Still, it is no reason to demean these people because they do stand for something pretty good in my opinion. They obviously have no chance of overthrowing the government or carrying out any kind of mass military operation, so I find the wasted man hours and millions of dollars from groups like the FBI and ATF to be kind of comical actually, while also pissing me off that tax dollars are wasted surveilling patriots shooting at silhouettes in the middle of the woods.

Except that with Joe the Plumber none of that can be proved. I mean it looks pretty circumstantial that he is being punished for defying the government, but why do people insist that bad things only happen under Obama? Look at the Plame Affair/CIA Leak scandal. That woman who was exposed as being a CIA agent. What a totally irresponsible thing to do, of which the husband of this woman insists that members of the Bush Administation, including that peach Cheney, deliberately blew her cover as retribution for the article he wrote about the falsified claims of WMD's. Of course, none of this can be proved either, but I wish people would stop insisting one party is not evil and the other one is.

As for my straw man argument, I would argue that they shouldn't be too quick to reveal what they do. Yes it goes against the grain of being free and living in a democratic society, but none of you want to be on a list. I know it's a shitty thing and looks like "shut up and say nothing" but prehaps they should be a bit more subtle?

[thegodfather]

Except that with Joe the Plumber none of that can be proved. I mean it looks pretty circumstantial that he is being punished for defying the government, but why do people insist that bad things only happen under Obama? Look at the Plame Affair/CIA Leak scandal. That woman who was exposed as being a CIA agent. What a totally irresponsible thing to do, of which the husband of this woman insists that members of the Bush Administation, including that peach Cheney, deliberately blew her cover as retribution for the article he wrote about the falsified claims of WMD's. Of course, none of this can be proved either, but I wish people would stop insisting one party is not evil and the other one is.

That's actually incorrect. Two employees resigned and one had his job revoked after they improperly searched Joe The Plumbers name in Ohio State databases for a malicious purpose.

"Given our understanding that Mr. Wurzelbacher had publicly indicated that he had the means to purchase a substantial business enterprise, ODJFS, consistent with past departmental practice, checked confidential databases to make sure that if Mr. Wurzelbacher did owe child support, or unemployment compensation taxes, or was receiving public assistance, appropriate action was being taken. The result of those checks have never been publicly shared."[7]
The Columbus Dispatch reported on November 14, 2008, that "In response to a public-records request, the state agency said yesterday that it had no records involving previous checks of the type that Director Helen Jones-Kelley authorized on 'Joe the Plumber.'"[8] Tom Hayes and Barbara Riley, both previous directors of ODJFS, have responded to Jones-Kelley's searches and stated that they did not conduct searches due to an individual's status being raised to "celebrity."[9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_De...ch_controversy