Cutting with Clen

[funone32]

Hey all, i just got my shipment of Liquid Clen and L-Taurine, and i've read up on all the valuable posts people have put up regarding its use and cycles.

Goal will be to go from 225lbs @25% bf to 185lbs @10% bf in 3 months.

For diet, believe it or not, i've actually got myself onto a gourmet food delivery plan. So every morning, a cooler is waiting outside my front door with 1200 calories consisting of three meals, and two snacks.

On top of that, i'm doing three 20min HIIT sessions 12pm, 5pm, 9pm and my regular hour workout after the 5pm. Some might criticize on the overkill but i have a slower then average metabolism, which im hoping the clen will fix.

End goal... this is the summer i walk around half naked ALL THE TIME! and if i achieve my goals, im treating myself to one month on a beach in the south Pacific.

I have a question regarding the clen... i've taken liquid creatine before and typically need to be dropped under the tongue... this stuff smells like industrial cleaner... i thought apple vinegar tasted bad... so before i begin my cycle (monday) does any one know if it needs to go under the tongue, back of the throat, mixed in with something else (milk, water), or poured into empty gelatin capsules and ingested?

I'm planning on keeping a video log of my progress with the cycle, so we'll see how effective it is.

[amostofi1999]

just drink it.
i also suggest and extra meal with carbs every 3-4 days.

[funone32]

Alright, i've decided to turn this thread into a full on account of my experience with my very first cycle of clen... Very first cycle of anything to be honest. So all you newbies like me that need a reference for what to expect and how it works and results... here's the place to come.

Day 1
Dosage: 20mcg
Taken: morning meal (9:00am)
Side Effects: Started feeling the shakes at around noon. Nothing too serious, but i became conscious of it immediately. however half of that is probably psychological.

Workout: three 1/2 hour cardio sessions, one 1 hour weight session (shoulders and tris), one more cardio session before bed.

Throughts/Feelings: so far i guess im experiencing exactly what i was going to expect. again, half of this is in my head, which is why i only glanced at the side effect columns of everyone's breakdown of the product. I suspect that tomorrow's shakes will be about the same as my body's been shaking all day and eventually it has to taper off as i took the clen in the morning.
Experienced a cramp in the strangest place as well... oblique close to the back... nothing serious, just massaged it out, but as suspected, the clen is doing exactly what i thought it would.

Heart rate monitor on the cardio machines was pretty impressive. I do my HIIT routine first thing in the morning (BEFORE taking the clen) and the last cardio session is another HIIT before bed. But my two regular pace cardio sessions i managed to keep a heart rate consistently at 145-155 bpm. At that rate it would normally be at about 120, so calorie burn off was considerably higher with less effort.

Plan is to weigh in on Friday. 223lbs as of last friday, we'll see how effective the clen really is.

[omgjimmyfricke]

whats ur reasons for not using T3

[Little Herc]

Your on a 1200 calorie diet doing 3 sets of 30min cardio and weights? thats about 900 calories burned just from half assed cardio. I hope u don't have any mass u would like to keep because u going to look malnourished by the end of 3 months and that's only if u can stick to your plan w/o starving to death. Good luck tho.

[funone32]

Hey Thanks for the input. Reality is.. there is fat... LARD on my body, and that LARD has to come off. Now, im going to be honest, im having a really tough time with everyone on bodybuilding forums and their concerns with doing cardio because its going to burn off your hard earned gains. Logic tends to stick is nose into the equation and deduct that a) Your body knows it needs its muscles to function BEFORE it needs its body fat... if you disagree get your head checked... because you cant hunt that antelope on the grasslands if you dont have any meet on your bones first. and b) if indeed your body resorts to burning muscle for fuel BEFORE depleting its stored energy reserve (the lard thats disgustingly drooping over my belt), then we as a species have WAY bigger problems to worry about then chasing after other country's resources... i mean... Its a really scary thought that your body will start deteriorating itself that easily... 30 min of cardio at a half decent pace 4 times a day is NOT alot. We as Americans probably consider that to be total overkill, which is probably why heart disease and obesity are common place along with fast food and buffet's in American culture, its a total JOKE... you need to be as fit respiratory and cardiovascularly as you are muscularly, its a system... and one weak link is the difference between you rocking some hot bird's boat in the sack and some hot bird having to call 911 because your muscle head heart gave out just before she got the chance to O, lol. I have to say, body builders in general are big sucks when it comes to doing cardio vascular exercise.

Thats not to say i dont agree with physical evidence... I look at a champion marathon racer and i want to puke. They dont look human they look like aids victims... yah well im not running for 8 hours a day, just 2, broken up across my conscious day, sorta like the same principal as eating 6 small meals.... keep the engine running the whole time.
And to be precise, my calorie burns just from my cardio alone are 250(morning) 400(lunch) 400(after weights) and 250(evening) grand total of: 1300 Kcal which kills off everything i've eaten in the day, leaving the 500Kcal weight training, and simply being alive, to burn off another 2000 for the remaining 12 hours of the 24 hour cycle. Takes Approximately 3000 Kcal's per lbs of Fat to be burned, and so long as i keep it at a steady rate of about 3lbs per week, i should be safe muscle breakdown, but more importantly, which should be the bigger concern... putting the weight back on instantly after going back to a regular calorie diet.

And as for the diet,... I'm basically following a modified version of a professional body builder's routine to drop their body fat down to below 5% approaching a competition. they get off their 3500 calorie diet and put their body in a calorie deficit. Unless i've completely misread everything, im doing exactly the same thing they do 4 weeks out, and then later, even more extreme 2 weeks out when all sodium, supplements and anything that can contribute to the slightest bit of bloating is taken right out of the equation FOR WEEKS. Which leaves Jay Cutler eating friggin flavorless rice cakes 6 times a day (once at 3m by the way, because thats part of an extreme regiment too) lol.

Strangely enough, i suspected someone was going to comment on the cardio, and i appreciate the opportunity for debate Little Herc. But in the end, my observations, my Sports MD, my kenisiologist/personal trainer all seem to agree... if you're burning off 'hard earned gains' by doing some lite cardio several times a day, they most likely are not gains, and they were not hard earned... because that which you earn... which you truly earn... you keep. (yes im aware of the irony of making such a naturalist comment of a steroid forum, lol)

In the end, i just have not seen the evidence that this much cardio is detrimental to body building. Especially on a cutting cycle.

So my question to you is, how then, does one establish one's lean muscle mass index? If we can calculate that, like we can calculate body fat (and i mean through electro-conduction, and fat caliper measuring tools, not this RIDICULOUS backwards idea of giving someone a guess at their BF by looking at their picture as i've seen embarrassingly posted elsewhere on this forum), we must be able to calculate your lean muscle index as well as your BF index, and monitor THAT to determine at what point the amount of cardio performed will begin to degrade your muscle mass (which i agree it will, but only after X hours or calories or what ever the unit of measure).

So, Little Herc or anyone reading this novel, is there a way to accurately calculate and monitor lean body muscular fiber, and if so... how is it done, how does the technology work (for my own curiosity), and where do i sign up... because ultimately you are right... i've worked hard putting on the meat i've got... im not giving it up that easy, but im not going to shy away from some healthy cardiovascular and respiratory system strengthening for fear losing my muscle.

Worst case scenario... i'll look like Brad Pit in fight club... nothing wrong with how he looked, and last i checked the ladies are goo goo ga ga over that putz. lol

[funone32]

hey omgjimmyfricke,

T3 or not T3... truthfully, im a veteran bodybuilder, but this is my first go an engineered chemical introduction for achieving my goals. My biggest concern with T3 is my Thyroid. Reality is, organs have relatively reliable repair protocols... your liver gets hurt, your body responds and repairs to the best of its abilities, but glands are a little different, and im tempted, but not willing to destroy my thyroid with some self prescribed drugs.

So thats why T3 is out of the equation for me. Ever meet someone with a totally inactive thyroid? i have, and they are usually dead by 30 and need a crane to burry them. Its a really unpleasant site

[funone32]

Update for today:

Day Two Clen Cycle:

Day 1
Dosage: 40mcg
Taken: morning meal (9:00am)
Side Effects: Shakes were a little stronger today, but not overly. I cant really describe them as shakes... more like shivers like when your body is cold and tries to warm up by vibrating its skin.

Workout: three 1/2 hour cardio sessions, one more cardio session before bed.

Overall thoughts: So far im not dead... thats the most important part. Im conducting this weeks log and activities as a controlled experiment, so if i could shed 5 lbs (1% bf) in 7 days naturally, what results will the clen yield. Friday is weigh in date, but the pants are starting to slip off to be honest. 42" pants are going to go down to 36" in no time.

[shreCk darCko]

Update for today:

Day Two Clen Cycle:

Day 1
Dosage: 40mcg
Taken: morning meal (9:00am)
Side Effects: Shakes were a little stronger today, but not overly. I cant really describe them as shakes... more like shivers like when your body is cold and tries to warm up by vibrating its skin.

Workout: three 1/2 hour cardio sessions, one more cardio session before bed.

Overall thoughts: So far im not dead... thats the most important part. Im conducting this weeks log and activities as a controlled experiment, so if i could shed 5 lbs (1% bf) in 7 days naturally, what results will the clen yield. Friday is weigh in date, but the pants are starting to slip off to be honest. 42" pants are going to go down to 36" in no time.

best log iv'e seen. using you as inspiration.

[funone32]

Hey Shreck DarCko,

Thanks for the positive feedback. Now im inspired to keep the log going... speaking of which, here's a mid day three update:

Day Three Clen Cycle:

Day Three
Dosage: 60mcg with one L-Taurine tab in the am, and one after noon to control side effects.
Taken: morning meal (9:00am)
Side Effects: i can definitely feel the shakes at this dosage. Still not enough to be concerned about, and hardly noticeable, but i can feel it. One item of concern... for about a few seconds, i had a very faint ache in my chest. Gave it a few deep breaths and it cleared away but i'll be keeping my eye on that.

Workout: three 1/2 hour cardio sessions (8am, 12pm, 5pm), one more cardio session before bed. Lower body workout focusing on quads.

Overall thoughts: So i will up the dosage tomorrow and see how we do, but it may stay there for a day or so depending on how strong the side effects are. I've done an excellent job controlling the diet, especially considering i get it delivered to me every morning, which is perfect, and no cheating, so im very curious to see how i weigh in on Friday.

[omgjimmyfricke]

where did u get your oral syringe from

[funone32]

Hey omgjimmyfricke,

actually the distributor (who's weblink is at the top of the screen with a lion for a logo) provided a syringe, a pretty good one too, but here's the problem... The cheap thing had the unit measure marks printed on its plastic shell with some really cheap ink, and after a day in my pocket, i pull it out and ALL the markings are gone! i couldn't measure my dosage. So i just ran to my local pharmacist (shoppers drugmart if you're Canadian), and asked the pharmacist for one. They are generally available for administering liquid medicine to babies, but you have to check to make sure it has the appropriate unit measures. So my syringe holds 5ml in total... 200mcg per 1ml, so every single tick between 0 and 1ml is 20mcg's. so your first does is going to be like 3 drops.

Now, i asked this around, and no one was helpful at all answering this question... but this stuff smells like industrial plastic product waste... so you actually have to drink it?
Well... I DONT! i dont drink it, i dont taste it, and anyone who subjects themselves to that clearly hasnt hit himself on the thumb with the hammer enough... here's what i do:

I went to a natural herbologist store (may be difficult to find... herbie's if you live in Toronto), and they sell gelatin or vegie empty size 0 capsule pills. Buy a bag of those ($5) and a pill filling kit (which you really dont need but i use it to hold the pill while i fill it), and you're set. This allows me not only to avoid what im sure must be a horrible taste, but i drop into the pills the exact dosage... not a cmg more or less, and i dont know any other way to get an accurate dosage. trying to extract only 20cmg with the syringe wont work because they are not that accurate, you have to extract a lot more and then drop out what you need... if you're dropping that out into your mouth, how are you controlling the dosage if you cant see the syringe. lol.
You could also drop the dosage into a cup of water, But i myself have totally overshot my syringe every time... with empty pills, i just pour it back into the vile and try again... dropping it into a drink, you cant do that. I opted for the pill because i didnt want to have to taste anything.

[ToughX]

Great log man!Im also going todo a clen cycle but only for 2months how many pills did you buy for your 3month cycle?Do you think a 100 pills at 40mg are enough for 2 months?(i know peoples doses vary)


Thanks!

[Clincher]

Great log man!Im also going todo a clen cycle but only for 2months how many pills did you buy for your 3month cycle?Do you think a 100 pills at 40mg are enough for 2 months?(i know peoples doses vary)


Thanks!

You say he has a great log yet you didn't read it? Or maybe your reading comprehension is poor...he must talk about the clen being liquid like every post he makes. Come on man learn to read.

[tjax03]

Hey Thanks for the input. Reality is.. there is fat... LARD on my body, and that LARD has to come off. Now, im going to be honest, im having a really tough time with everyone on bodybuilding forums and their concerns with doing cardio because its going to burn off your hard earned gains. Logic tends to stick is nose into the equation and deduct that a) Your body knows it needs its muscles to function BEFORE it needs its body fat... if you disagree get your head checked... because you cant hunt that antelope on the grasslands if you dont have any meet on your bones first. and b) if indeed your body resorts to burning muscle for fuel BEFORE depleting its stored energy reserve (the lard thats disgustingly drooping over my belt), then we as a species have WAY bigger problems to worry about then chasing after other country's resources... i mean... Its a really scary thought that your body will start deteriorating itself that easily... 30 min of cardio at a half decent pace 4 times a day is NOT alot. We as Americans probably consider that to be total overkill, which is probably why heart disease and obesity are common place along with fast food and buffet's in American culture, its a total JOKE... you need to be as fit respiratory and cardiovascularly as you are muscularly, its a system... and one weak link is the difference between you rocking some hot bird's boat in the sack and some hot bird having to call 911 because your muscle head heart gave out just before she got the chance to O, lol. I have to say, body builders in general are big sucks when it comes to doing cardio vascular exercise.

Thats not to say i dont agree with physical evidence... I look at a champion marathon racer and i want to puke. They dont look human they look like aids victims... yah well im not running for 8 hours a day, just 2, broken up across my conscious day, sorta like the same principal as eating 6 small meals.... keep the engine running the whole time.
And to be precise, my calorie burns just from my cardio alone are 250(morning) 400(lunch) 400(after weights) and 250(evening) grand total of: 1300 Kcal which kills off everything i've eaten in the day, leaving the 500Kcal weight training, and simply being alive, to burn off another 2000 for the remaining 12 hours of the 24 hour cycle. Takes Approximately 3000 Kcal's per lbs of Fat to be burned, and so long as i keep it at a steady rate of about 3lbs per week, i should be safe muscle breakdown, but more importantly, which should be the bigger concern... putting the weight back on instantly after going back to a regular calorie diet.

And as for the diet,... I'm basically following a modified version of a professional body builder's routine to drop their body fat down to below 5% approaching a competition. they get off their 3500 calorie diet and put their body in a calorie deficit. Unless i've completely misread everything, im doing exactly the same thing they do 4 weeks out, and then later, even more extreme 2 weeks out when all sodium, supplements and anything that can contribute to the slightest bit of bloating is taken right out of the equation FOR WEEKS. Which leaves Jay Cutler eating friggin flavorless rice cakes 6 times a day (once at 3m by the way, because thats part of an extreme regiment too) lol.

Strangely enough, i suspected someone was going to comment on the cardio, and i appreciate the opportunity for debate Little Herc. But in the end, my observations, my Sports MD, my kenisiologist/personal trainer all seem to agree... if you're burning off 'hard earned gains' by doing some lite cardio several times a day, they most likely are not gains, and they were not hard earned... because that which you earn... which you truly earn... you keep. (yes im aware of the irony of making such a naturalist comment of a steroid forum, lol)

In the end, i just have not seen the evidence that this much cardio is detrimental to body building. Especially on a cutting cycle.

So my question to you is, how then, does one establish one's lean muscle mass index? If we can calculate that, like we can calculate body fat (and i mean through electro-conduction, and fat caliper measuring tools, not this RIDICULOUS backwards idea of giving someone a guess at their BF by looking at their picture as i've seen embarrassingly posted elsewhere on this forum), we must be able to calculate your lean muscle index as well as your BF index, and monitor THAT to determine at what point the amount of cardio performed will begin to degrade your muscle mass (which i agree it will, but only after X hours or calories or what ever the unit of measure).

So, Little Herc or anyone reading this novel, is there a way to accurately calculate and monitor lean body muscular fiber, and if so... how is it done, how does the technology work (for my own curiosity), and where do i sign up... because ultimately you are right... i've worked hard putting on the meat i've got... im not giving it up that easy, but im not going to shy away from some healthy cardiovascular and respiratory system strengthening for fear losing my muscle.

Worst case scenario... i'll look like Brad Pit in fight club... nothing wrong with how he looked, and last i checked the ladies are goo goo ga ga over that putz. lol

No offense, but you don't seem to have the slightest clue as to how the human body works. First off, you think you will be able to have the discipline to diet and exercise four times a week at over a 1500 calorie deficit. Good luck keeping at this for more than a week. Second, once your body realizes that it is getting way fewer calories than it needs, it will start slowing its metabolism down drastically. Just because you have alot of fat doesn't prevent this from happening. Third, you seem to forget that bodybuilders are on massive amounts of anabolic substances when they reduce calories well below maintenance. They do this to prevent muscle loss. I don't want to discourage you from your weight loss attempt, but 4 times a day of cardio while eating only 1200 calories a day and lifting, is not only unhealthy, but not possible for more than a week or two at most. You need to be realistic and gradually lower your calories as your weight lowers. You should watch the videos in the diet forum or simply visit that section of this page because you clearly do understand what you are doing. Clen isn't some wort of wonder drug. If your diet and routine aren't properly set up, you will not get the results you seek.

[ToughX]

You say he has a great log yet you didn't read it? Or maybe your reading comprehension is poor...he must talk about the clen being liquid like every post he makes. Come on man learn to read.

Not gonna bs brah you got me,I was looking for a quick answer lol..You know the answer?

[Clincher]

Not gonna bs brah you got me,I was looking for a quick answer lol..You know the answer?

Well at least you admitted it. Dude I was jsut like you...I found something I heard works and wanted nothing more then someone to tell me where to get it and how much to take. I was where you are 4 years ago. Now that being said you need to do yoru homework. I know it sounds a lot like what all theses vets are preaching and I know you don't want to hear it but your going to end up doing one of two things. Buying the wrong thing, taking the wrong amount and either ****ing yourself or getting the right thing and taking the right dosage and not having a key part in place.

I've found this out the hard way by crashing the other day on clen. Why...well cause my diet wasn't where it needed to be and I shook off the claims that it wasn't from the vets.

Here's what you need to post to get the right info.
Stats: height, weight, body fat%, age and so on.
Diet: Let the pros tell you where the problems are. They know what their talking about.
Workout: How many days you go into the gym and what you do there.
Once that's all done and you have the right info going into it you post your cycle.
Cycle: How much per day and how often per day/week. Then let the pros check your cycle and perfect it.


Now that I've said my part that you probably won't listen to...no 100 40mcg tabs isn't going to get the job done for a 8 week cycle. Personally I think a 8 week cycle is to long. 6 weeks max with benedryl thrown in to help with beta receptors. Your best bet is to follow the info I listed above, listen to the pros, then grab your research chems from AR-R or Lion. They are trust worthy and sell legit products. I wouldn't mix the pills and the liquid.

If you want to see how my clen cycle is going you can read here. I can tell you right now if I didn't do my homework on clen I would have already stopped researching with it cause the effects of not having the key elements in place that I posted above will cause your research subject to freak out when something isn't right. Knowledge is power man. Get yourself geared up with a little of that before you touch the clen. Reading isn't hard man. Put the time into it cause like you I wasn't a believer in the hype of truly proper diet, workout and cycle till I had it beat into me in a way you don't want to go through.

My Cycle:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=421597

[funone32]

No offense, but you don't seem to have the slightest clue as to how the human body works. First off, you think you will be able to have the discipline to diet and exercise four times a week at over a 1500 calorie deficit. Good luck keeping at this for more than a week. Second, once your body realizes that it is getting way fewer calories than it needs, it will start slowing its metabolism down drastically. Just because you have alot of fat doesn't prevent this from happening. Third, you seem to forget that bodybuilders are on massive amounts of anabolic substances when they reduce calories well below maintenance. They do this to prevent muscle loss. I don't want to discourage you from your weight loss attempt, but 4 times a day of cardio while eating only 1200 calories a day and lifting, is not only unhealthy, but not possible for more than a week or two at most. You need to be realistic and gradually lower your calories as your weight lowers. You should watch the videos in the diet forum or simply visit that section of this page because you clearly do understand what you are doing. Clen isn't some wort of wonder drug. If your diet and routine aren't properly set up, you will not get the results you seek.

Hey man, no offense taken... im not on anything other then clen so have no fear of roid-rage-rebutles. lol.

No i appreciate your input. Albiet, i'll never understand why people seem to over react with assumptions and accusations of this person having no idea about this or that. I may not have an intimate understanding of how the human body works, after all im an Architect not a doctor... but my doctor (the fellow monitoring my clen cycle and diet)... he happens to be a doctor, and my personal trainer is a kinesiologist, so im not really doing this on my own, im following a balanced diet, spread across my day, administered and monitored by professionals... lol ever been to a restaurant in Europe? yah its a bit of a shock but they dont eat anywhere near as large portions as we do... and they also dont have obesity problems. Maybe something in the water magically keeps their metabolism running at such low caloric intakes. My point is, i understand and agree with you that the micro-mechanics of the human body are complex, and perhaps i will not be able to go on with a 4 cardio sessions + weights a day... you're absolutely right... thats why i started this log. Its so that i can share what has and what has not worked.

But just to be perfectly clear about something, that i think everyone is having a misconception about... i do 4 cardio sessions and 1 weight session per day. i believe i outlined the routine before but here it is once more:

8am HIIT bike routine
12pm regular pace elliptical session
5pm regular pace elliptical session
5:30 weights
9pm HIIT bike routine

but perhaps i forgot a vital detail that will clear things up

8am - 15min HIIT routine
12pm - 28min eliptical
5pm - 28min eliptical
9pm - 15min HIIT routine

Grand total: approx 1.5hours of cardio + 1 hours weights
So if you're telling me that out of my almost completely sedentary 24 hour daily cycle, im doing harm to myself by being active for 2.5 hours, then screw this crap, im getting lipo! lol Its only too much because we're not conditioned to do that much... so im simply reconditioning myself.

Now, questioning my discipline... now you're starting to sound like my father... the man who spent most of my life telling me how i cant do things, and the same man who (choking on his foot), now watches me do them.
Just proper manners... dont confuse other people's discipline levels with your own. let me make myself perfectly clear on my stats and goals:

Current weight: TOO F'ING FAT im at 25+% as per my most recent electrode meter test

End goal: 23 woman revers gangbang with F'ing super models

So right now... FAT = NO ACTION lol, yah my doctor gets a kick out of my motivation too. And believe me, im not a bad looking guy, i'll make that happen, but as it stands, im a fat dude.

How much more disciplined do i have to get:

- I own a gym (yes a real life commercial gym, not a dinky weider 2000 in my unfinished basement with cheese-ass punching bag beside it that never gets used)
- I have a personal physician administering and monitoring my cycles
- I have a ridiculously beautiful kinesiologist who is my personal trainer
- I have my calorie controlled, portion packaged 5 meal gourmet lunch box delivered to my front door every morning (so i dont even cook, or count calories, the company i employ does it for me, which by the way, if your front Toronto you'll recognize Dr. Bernstien Weight Loss services... yup.. another doctor doing that for me)
- I have an alarm system on my blackberry that alerts me when its time to eat and time to down another letre of water.
- And although i own several businesses, have meetings all over the place, i never EVER miss my workouts or my meals.

Now, tomorrow is weigh-in day. It may very well be the case that my efforts this week with my strictly regimented diet and fitness activities will yield little or no results. That will be bad, but good as well, because then i will know for sure that this approach did not work, and over the weekend, my team regroups and re-assesses the situation.

I do value your opinion, and i'll agree with you completely... i dont know anything about how the body works, and im delusional to think this is going to work... but the only way we'll know for sure, is when the cycle is over.

So stay tuned.

[funone32]

Day Four Clen Cycle:

Day Four
Dosage: 80mcg with one L-Taurine tab in the am, and one after noon to control side effects.
Taken: morning meal (9:00am)
Side Effects: The shakes are on. Again not unbearable, but consistent. I can feel them when i release my foot from the clutch in my car... it almost feels like i've done a super set of calf raises and im trying to walk up a flight of stairs... that strange negative resistance. Slight headache, but not as bad as i had expected. Headaches seem to be quite manageable, which is good. one Tylenol and its over.

Workout: three cardio sessions (8am -15min HIIT, 12pm - 30 min eliptical, 5pm - 30 min elip.), one more cardio (15 min HIIT) session before bed. Off day on the weights

Overall thoughts: Although the shakes where on, i think im good to go forward with the final jump to 100mcg tomorrow, and keep it there. I've become TOTALLY aware of my accelerated heart rate all day. Even when i lay down for a break, i can feel it thumbing away. I don't sweat excessively as i've read in another post on clen, but its in there doing its thing. We'll see tomorrow if its doing anything at all with the weigh-in/bf count.

[tjax03]

You seem to have a really good attitude about all this and you handle criticism well, which I believe can only help you in your efforts. Just keep in mind that dieting properly is a relatively slow process. I think that it may be more effective overall if you don't limit your calories so much at first. If you want to keep the cardio at 4 times per day, give it a shot. But calculate your TDEE and aim for 500 less than that. Then as you lose weight you can recalculate your TDEE and keep adjusting for a (hopefully) constant rate of weight loss. This will be more effective IMO than drastically reducing from the get go, as your body will attempt to conserve itself in a drastically reduced calorie diet and metabolism will slow dramatically. If this happens you are forced to eat a miniscule amount of food in order to see any weight loss and by that point you are starting to be malnourished from the tiny amounts of food you can eat. With four cardio sessions a day you are going to need to be getting optimal nutrition as that will wear you down after a while. You may feel fine for a few days or a week, but there's a reason you don't hear about people doing that much cardio...it is simply too much when in a reduced calorie state. I think it could even have detrimental consequences such as lowering of your testosterone which will not help your fat loss goals.

[Kiki]

1200 cals per day? only?

Trust me, whatever muscle you have on your body you will lose. The end result will be the aids patient look. I've seen it time and time myself, and I even lost muscle mass before, with a reduced carb diet even though it was around 2500 cals.

If you're fine with looking really skinny, then sure this will work.

[funone32]

Hey Tjax,

Thanks for the excellent post. Your advice is well taken, and in fact, i agree with you.
I did my weigh in today, which i'll post in a second as part of my official day 5 journal entry, but i have to say its great... but a little too great. Too drastic a weight loss then is safe. Most likely the clen is contributing to that as well. But i'll address that in a moment.

Ok, just a little more background on my overall plan.. i've actually been reducing my calorie intake progressively for the last two months. Long story short. May 09 - Dec 09 i was on a heavy calorie bulking diet. Nothing crazy in the fat department, just more grilled chicken breasts and steaks then i think i've ever eaten. 3,000 - 3,500 calories per day as per my delivered meal plan. Starting January 2010, i started cutting back 500 calories every two weeks, in and around there, which brought me to my March start of my clen cycle and the end result of the 1200 calorie diet. My doctor has been monitoring my TDEE and i have a program that drafts up projected bf drop reports, so my whole process is very scientific, which as im sure you can tell from my postings... fits my personality rather well. I like clear decisive evidence.

Now, i have come to the conclusion that 1200 calories is not a safe zone for me, for all the reasons you and a few others have mentioned, so starting next week im pushing it back up to 1600 calories, and saving the 1200 calorie or lower diet to the last two weeks of my goal. I'm not entering into any contests but im treating this entire exercise as though i am. So we're talking the fake tan, the 'manscaping', and everything else that goes along with lets say, an amateur body building competition.

Oh, forgot to explain the reason i deducted the calorie intake wasn't enough... back in my bulking phase, my bench press was up at 280lbs for two set max.... today i could barely get up 250lbs, and since im not actively taking any anabolic steroids at this time, that is a good indicator of insufficient fuel for the machine. Gotta keep my weights up, otherwise Kiki is right... im going to be an out of shape skinny guy, lol.

Speaking of which, Kiki, i've voiced my interest before and perhaps you may know, but because i like to keep things very scientific and controlled... do you know of any tool or technique to measure body muscle mass so that one could indeed continuously measure to control muscle mass loss? Let me know, im very interested in protecting my muscle mass while optimizing fat burning.

In the end its a very fine balance isnt it? i can only imagine the ridiculous discipline required to become a professional body builder.

So, thank you all for your thoughts, and valuable insight.

[funone32]

Day 5 Clen Cycle:

Day Five
Dosage: 100mcg with one L-Taurine tab in the am, and one after noon to control side effects.
Taken: morning meal (9:00am)
Side Effects: ok, i think i've adapted to the side effects at the highest dosage im willing to go. I have the shakes still but they seem to have subsided to the level i felt on day one at 20cmg. So that's good. As well i didnt get a head ache today, and only an awareness of what feels like a steady accelerated heart beat. might be my imagination though.

Workout: two cardio sessions (8am -15min HIIT, 12pm - 30 min eliptical) took it easy today after a few sets of chest exercises.

WEEKLY WEIGH-IN:

Since last Friday (7 days), i lost exactly 5.7lbs !!!!!

Thoughts:
Ok, NO ONE needs to tell me that that's a really drastic drop, got that from the doctors and trainer already, and we've decided that my body seems to be reacting to the clen well, and that the calorie deficit may be too much, so im pushing the diet back up to 1600 cal per day, and potentially dropping the third cardio session (5pm 30 min eliptical) out of the equation. I am happy though to see that my purchase and use of the clen seems to indeed be working, with very minor side effects for me at the moment.

[Kiki]

Speaking of which, Kiki, i've voiced my interest before and perhaps you may know, but because i like to keep things very scientific and controlled... do you know of any tool or technique to measure body muscle mass so that one could indeed continuously measure to control muscle mass loss? Let me know, im very interested in protecting my muscle mass while optimizing fat burning.

As far as I know, the only way you can tell you're losing muscle mass is ;

a) You're lifts reduce over time, you become weaker, usually a sign of muscle loss.
b) Visibly apparent when looking in the mirror.


Bro I strongly advice you bump your calories to around TDEE levels (assuming you have muscle mass you want to keep), yes it most likely will take longer to lose the fat then going on an extremely caloric deficient diet but you need to remember a few things.

A) Having muscle on your body is always a good thing, it means that your body will always be burning more calories when sedentary, so retaining muscle mass helps fat burning.

B) I'm assuming that once you finish with this extreme cut you'll want to add some muscle. I've tried the whole bulk/cut thing and it's hard and time consuming. A lot of people on here have opinions on both sides of the fence which is the better route to go, but I think you should just bump your calories and stick with a roughly similar diet throughout your journey, only changing it by upping cals when you're happy with your cut and want to add some quality lean mass without any fat.

[funone32]

Day 6/7/8 Clen Cycle:

Day six, seven, eight
Dosage: 100mcg with one L-Taurine tab in the am, and one after noon to control side effects.
Taken: morning meal (9:00am)
Side Effects: As expected, my body and psychology has become accustomed to the fact that im taking clen. The side effects are just a little shaking for about 3 hours after i take my dosage, but otherwise, very bearable.

Workout: Day 6 and 7 are weekend days, i do a half hour easy cardio session on my bike, just to get the blood flowing in the morning, but thats it. However, i also did a 1 hour weight workout with a buddy right before our grueling 1 hour league dodge ball game. YES i play dodge ball... not its not just for kids... bloody violent sport that... almost broke my finger trying to catch the dam ball, but we one! LOL, wonder if clen is considered a performance enhancement drug.

Thoughts: Back up to an 1800 calorie diet simply because i didnt have the total strength i need to push it in the gym. I'm also dropping the cardio to 3 sessions per day because the weight loss last week was about 2lbs too many, and i need to watch that.

I think next week after my second weigh-in i'll post pictures. I've got before pictures, but i've held back on after pictures because im in the process of building a film production studio for another venture i've started up, and thought that it would be a great idea to setup a weekly professional photo shoot of the progress, and possibly start a video blog. Only concern is that everyone here seems to cover their faces, and seeing i spend a degree of my career in the public eye, advertising my progress on a steroid forum may cause problems. we'll see, im rather against the media hype of steroid use and dont much care what our corrupt governments, billion dollar food industry lobby groups, or people with misguided moral issues have to say about it.

[Walnutz]

Great log...thanks.

[B1gDaddy]

Sounds like you have lots of money if you got multiple docs following your cycle an a PT AND food delivered to you each day lol. Your deffinetly on the right pathway to find those super models you talked about earlier lol, almost 6 lbs in the first week is impressive but unsafe as you already know. I'm starting a sust anw inny cutting cycle in a few months so this is good inspiration for me. keep up the good work bud

[funone32]

Thanks for the complement Walnutz and B1gDaddy.

To address your comment B1gDaddy, lets say i'm more financially intelligent then good looking, lol how about that? Truthfully though, i have to say, we have a very screwed up system when eating junk packaged deep fried convenience is cheaper then eating a healthy meal! And without the convenience (and of course luxury) of having the option to have my food portion and calorie controlled AND delivered fresh every morning, this entire exercise would be extremely difficult to maintain. I'll give you an example of an interesting thought experiment i conducted on myself last week.

So i had to go to Walmart to pick up a few things for the house, and being me and having absolutely no time to do grocery shopping, let alone cook, i knew while i was in the store that my fridge at home was empty. It just hit me subconsciously... im walking around the store and suddenly i realize there's nothing to eat... but conveniently enough, there is a McDonalds inside the walmart! and under normal circumstances i would have totally b-lined for those fries because after all, its just this one time right? Well not this time... because i also very quickly realized that i do indeed have food waiting for me at home, and all it needs it to be heated up and im good.

I have to say that that was an extremely liberating feeling... to the point that i literally started laughing to myself with relief in the middle of the store. So, to address those of you with discipline issues... its hard, i KNOW... i LOVE McDonald Fries, but the temptation didnt even last 10 seconds before it got squashed by a positive harsh reality. So the key is to find ways to make self discipline automatic, and OUT of your control, because like driving a powerful sports car like a Lamborghini, i'll tell you right now... the weakest link in one of those cars... is the person behind the wheel. Take yourself OUT of the equation and make it automatic and you will not fail.

Now, here's a little more detail about my food situation. So as you've read, i have 5 meals (breakfast, lunch, dinner, mid day snacks and dessert) calorie controlled and delivered every morning. Yes, this is a relatively more expensive effort then shopping and preparing your own food. All in all, it runs me about $300 per week ($1,200) per month. now for many, that is simply an unfeasible venture, because truthfully it is a lot of money, and because i was business savvy even as a kid, and my moderate business and investment success i can afford this service, but for many its out of reach... or is it?

If there is any reason i am successful with my businesses is because i know there is always a way to get what you want. So, here is one way i worked out to get the same basic deal for a slightly reduced cost:

If you live in a city with diet delivery services, you'll find that they often offer a variety of plans. For example i'm on the 5 meal deal... lol, sounds like a McDonalds ad. But you can easily opt for 2 meal deal, say lunch and Dinner. According to my service provider this comes to around $200 per week (14 meals over 7 days)... so now you're down to about $800 per month. Substitute the now missing meals with something plane and simple and hard to screw up... PROTEIN / MEAL BARS! my quick math on say 3 bars per day (breakfast, mid morning snack, mid day snack) comes to around $200 per month (assuming a decent $35/box brand bar)... so we're up to $1000 now... but wait... many health food stores often sell off older protein bar inventory at a ridiculous discount if they are three months old. The deal is the manufacturer credits the store 100% for the unsold inventory, and the store can drop the price from $35/box to $10/box thus insuring a quick sale and a profit. Dont believe me? i literally just got back from my local GNC and i picked up a pack of Premier Nutrition Titan 6 layer crunch bars for $11 (pack of 12), as well as Labrada brand Lean Body peanut butter chocolate box of 12 for $10. So, now your entire months supply drops to around $60/month for a total of $860ish.

Anyway, i thought it would be good to elaborate on the details of my plan in hopes that it makes it more tangible for others. Definitely look into having food delivered, i seriously cant say enough good things about it.

B1gDaddy, im also planning on a sust inny cycle, so im curious to hear your thoughts and see your progress. I wont be going on though until this time next year, after i go back onto my bulking cycle next fall/winter. For now, the clen seems to be working quite well, im very happy i have to say!

[funone32]

Day 9 Clen Cycle:

Day nine
Dosage: 100mcg with one L-Taurine tab in the am, and one after noon to control side effects.
Taken: morning meal (9:00am)
Side Effects: Still very slight and hardly noticeable. Im wondering if perhaps i can handle dosages in the 140 cmg per day range, but this is a controlled experiment so i cant change the dosages now.

Workout: HIIT workout 9am 15 min, Cardio 30 min elliptical, and doing one more light cardio 30 min run in an hour

Thoughts: This week is the end of the 2 weeks on cycle, then i go off for two weeks. Im thinking that when i go back on, i may up the dossage to a total of 140cmg and see how that works.
Feeling really good though, i had a great dodge ball game on the weekend, and an incredible upper body workout as well and still feeling it Two days later.

[funone32]

PS, for all of your support and interest... i'll have to post some picture evidence of the supermodel group extravaganza for you all! lol

[funone32]

Day 10 Clen Cycle:

Day 10
Dosage: 100mcg with one L-Taurine tab in the am, and one after noon to control side effects.
Taken: morning meal (9:00am)
Side Effects: Cant feel a dam thing! all side effects are completely gone. no headaches, no shakes at all. Tomorrow marks my last day on this portion of the cycle.

Workout: 30 Min cardio (12noon), weights (5pm), 15min HIIT routine 9pm

Thoughts: I did a sneak peak of my weigh-in and im a little surprised. Basically everyone who went on about how im going to starve myself and how im this and that... can all go shove it.... i GAINED 1 lb?!?!?! the difference between this week and last was two fold:

a)increased my caloric intake to 1800 cal from 1200, and b) dropped one 30 min cardio circuit from every day's workout. Well, the evidence speaks for itself... and that certainly didnt work. Im sorry, but for a fat person, i dont understand how so many of you keep suggesting a mid to high calorie diet and little to no cardio in hopes to maintain "muscular gains" which no one has yet been able to illustrate how they are measured to begin with.

Very disappointed, and im trying to contain my emotions. I guess i just have a very slow metabolism, one that requires vigorous stimulus to provoke a response. Now, i took my weigh-in this evening, and i'll do it again tomorrow morning, which is my regular weigh-in time, and it may fluctuate a pound or two down, in which case, overall i'd have lost 1 lb, but clearly while on clen a supposedly Hollywood secrete magic weight loss drug, 1lb loss in 1 week is ridiculous.

next week, back to my original plan... better to loose too much weight too quickly, then not to lose any at all.

[BigFresh]

i was on the same clen cycle i didnt lose a pound for 30 days...then on my second week of clen i started to disappear i went from 235 down to 205 in less than 3months just keep at good diet and cardio....be patient ...

[Okinawa_Power]

Keep up the great job!!! Main goal should be 2-3lbs a week.......

[mg1228]

if u went from 1200 cals to 1800-2000 cals your body may have been trying to hold onto everything---seeing how u were starving it--maybe thats why u didnt lose that week

i enjoy your enthusiasm---keep it up

that being said---just because he is a doctor and she is a personal trainer doesnt mean they know shit about diet---most doctors dont even know shit about medicine and most personal trainers are in the business cause they couldnt do anything else---u need a nutritionist, and if i missed the fact that u have one, u need a new one cause he dont know shit either. I dont have a problem with all the cardio, hell up it, but u have to eat enough calories--
you can lose 2-3lbs a week with no drugs--just diet and cardio

if u eat 1200 cals for an extended period of time(1month-2months) what happens when fatloss stops? u gonna drop it to 800? 700? thats what u will have to do and when it slows at those cals? and then when u finally start eating again, guess what? your body is gonna hold and store everything preparing for the next time u might starve it. just my .02

lets be honest if u knew how to eat and had knowledge about diet u wouldnt b where u are now?


best of luck

[tjax03]

if u went from 1200 cals to 1800-2000 cals your body may have been trying to hold onto everything---seeing how u were starving it--maybe thats why u didnt lose that week

i enjoy your enthusiasm---keep it up

that being said---just because he is a doctor and she is a personal trainer doesnt mean they know shit about diet---most doctors dont even know shit about medicine and most personal trainers are in the business cause they couldnt do anything else---u need a nutritionist, and if i missed the fact that u have one, u need a new one cause he dont know shit either. I dont have a problem with all the cardio, hell up it, but u have to eat enough calories--
you can lose 2-3lbs a week with no drugs--just diet and cardio

if u eat 1200 cals for an extended period of time(1month-2months) what happens when fatloss stops? u gonna drop it to 800? 700? thats what u will have to do and when it slows at those cals? and then when u finally start eating again, guess what? your body is gonna hold and store everything preparing for the next time u might starve it. just my .02

lets be honest if u knew how to eat and had knowledge about diet u wouldnt b where u are now?


best of luck

That is a bit of an exaggeration don't you think. There is alot of distrust of doctors on this board because most are not familiar with dealing with the effects of hormone use/abuse. Well these aren't exactly standard medical issues and need to be taken up with specialists. Most doctors are pretty good at what they do, at least in America. There is a fairly rigorous process to ensure this.

[mg1228]

maybe--but maybe not--im talking from experiences of myself and wife and kids---either way they dont know anything about diet

[tjax03]

maybe--but maybe not--im talking from experiences of myself and wife and kids---either way they dont know anything about diet

Fair enough, there has been practically no emphasis on nutrition in medical schools. Fortunately, curriculums are now starting to include this important aspect of healthcare. Hopefully the next generation of doctors will be more knowledgeable about this.

[funone32]

Thanks for the great post mg1228

You are right, and i've upped the diet this week to 1400 cal + the option for a 300 cal meal if im seeing the need for it.

I actually do have a nutritionist... well ok, no i dont, i subscribe to a food delivery service that is run by a nutritionist. They have several calorie levels and so i have the option to change things up which is good.

i agree though that at a point, the body will begin to stop responding to fat burning at a certain level of caloric intake. One item never discussed however is one's standard metabolism. I have to say from my observations of my sister, that i got the crap end of the metabolic rate stick. She's always been lean, athletic, muscular even, all naturally. I have been lean, but only through CONSTANT effort. I suspect my estrogen levels were high as a teen too because i had gyno and when i graduated University i got it removed. All in all, my metabolism needs a kick in the backside to get it going.

As far as doctors... well im Canadian, dont know about American doctors, but i suspect they do know quite a bit about what they do... however i've seen evidence that says just the opposite. So i do hear you on that point. However, i am taking this entire exercise from a VERY logical and controlled experimentation point of view. Try one thing... if it doesn't work, adjust the variables... i think this is the best approach because although anyone can come online and blurt out their general approach to solving a problem... i think the human body is more unique then that, and it requires experimentation in order to find just the right level individually. And so far i think this is going really well.

This week i'm off the clen, just taking benedryl for two weeks, but i feel great, and i had the MOST amazing leg workout on Wednesday that im STILL feeling today! I'm focusing on lighter weight heavy reps, as well as running my weight routine in more of a cross training mode, so to keep my heart rate up. Ohh, i also wear a heart rate monitor during all my workouts, and try to keep at my 75% level as much as i can.

That all being said, mg1228, you've got a great physique, in an effort to understand you're process better and for comparison, what is your diet like calorie wise, and level of physical activity? You've got the shredded look im aiming for, so i'd love to hear more from you on your approach to shedding. I'm at 218lbs (down from 235lbs two months ago). I dont know if i'll actually ever weigh this, but my healthy ideal weight according to text books is 175lbs... i dont think i weighed that little when i was 13... im actually quite meaty, have always had nice thick arms, shoulders and chest, and i can only imagine how amazing i'll look minus the excess fat. So i'd love to hear more about your approach to shredding.

Now, knowing about proper diet and not... well, shamefully, i am in the state that im in because... well, no dam good reason... because i got complacent, lazy, spent all my time running my companies instead of letting them run themselves, and... i LOVE pizza!
Diet is not rocket science, i got fat because i was a lazy ass and i deserve every minute of pain its going to take to get me as ripped as you.

Your comments and thoughts are extremely valuable, please... everyone, keep them coming. Two more weeks and i post a before and after picture (every 30 days)

[funone32]

Thanks for the great post mg1228

You are right, and i've upped the diet this week to 1400 cal + the option for a 300 cal meal if im seeing the need for it.

I actually do have a nutritionist... well ok, no i dont, i subscribe to a food delivery service that is run by a nutritionist. They have several calorie levels and so i have the option to change things up which is good.

i agree though that at a point, the body will begin to stop responding to fat burning at a certain level of caloric intake. One item never discussed however is one's standard metabolism. I have to say from my observations of my sister, that i got the crap end of the metabolic rate stick. She's always been lean, athletic, muscular even, all naturally. I have been lean, but only through CONSTANT effort. I suspect my estrogen levels were high as a teen too because i had gyno and when i graduated University i got it removed. All in all, my metabolism needs a kick in the backside to get it going.

As far as doctors... well im Canadian, dont know about American doctors, but i suspect they do know quite a bit about what they do... however i've seen evidence that says just the opposite. So i do hear you on that point. However, i am taking this entire exercise from a VERY logical and controlled experimentation point of view. Try one thing... if it doesn't work, adjust the variables... i think this is the best approach because although anyone can come online and blurt out their general approach to solving a problem... i think the human body is more unique then that, and it requires experimentation in order to find just the right level individually. And so far i think this is going really well.

This week i'm off the clen, just taking benedryl for two weeks, but i feel great, and i had the MOST amazing leg workout on Wednesday that im STILL feeling today! I'm focusing on lighter weight heavy reps, as well as running my weight routine in more of a cross training mode, so to keep my heart rate up. Ohh, i also wear a heart rate monitor during all my workouts, and try to keep at my 75% level as much as i can.

That all being said, mg1228, you've got a great physique, in an effort to understand you're process better and for comparison, what is your diet like calorie wise, and level of physical activity? You've got the shredded look im aiming for, so i'd love to hear more from you on your approach to shedding. I'm at 218lbs (down from 235lbs two months ago). I dont know if i'll actually ever weigh this, but my healthy ideal weight according to text books is 175lbs... i dont think i weighed that little when i was 13... im actually quite meaty, have always had nice thick arms, shoulders and chest, and i can only imagine how amazing i'll look minus the excess fat. So i'd love to hear more about your approach to shredding.

Now, knowing about proper diet and not... well, shamefully, i am in the state that im in because... well, no dam good reason... because i got complacent, lazy, spent all my time running my companies instead of letting them run themselves, and... i LOVE pizza!
Diet is not rocket science, i got fat because i was a lazy ass and i deserve every minute of pain its going to take to get me as ripped as you.

Your comments and thoughts are extremely valuable, please... everyone, keep them coming. Two more weeks and i post a before and after picture (every 30 days)

[funone32]

Thank you also for the encouragement Okinowa Power... i get enthused when i know people are interested in my success.