Test/Tren/Anadrol/Anavar Cycle

[rootsnatty]

This is my first post and I thought with all the insights and information I have gleaned from forums I owed it to the internet community to try and give something back, namely my in-depth experience during this cycle I am running.

I am 23, stand 6'2", weigh 230 pounds with a pretty low bf% (I will be getting it tested soon) and this is my third cycle. I enjoy rock music, dancing, reading philosophy, sex and lifting weights. My favorite foods are crab and artichoke. Ideally, my cycle would look like the following, but, as I'm sure most AAS users know, it rarely works out exactly how you envision and I'm sure there will be many small complications which I will try to minimize. Here it is:

Testosterone Propionate: Week 1-10 @ 800mg/week (~120mg ED)
Week 10-16 @ 1200mg/week (~170mg ED)

Trenbolone Acetate: Week 1-16 @ 500mg/week (~70mg ED)

Anadrol: Week 1-5 @ 100mg ED

Anavar: Week 11-16 @ 60mg ED

So 16 weeks total (a long one), and a VERY long stretch of trenbolone.

Since my indigenous HPTA function will undoubtedly be sorely suppressed upon conclusion of this cycle I have included an aggressive PCT protocol. Here that is (thanks to Anthony Roberts for writing the informative PCT article that inspired this protocol which I'm always running into on Google):

Nolvadex: Week 17-22 @ 20mg ED

HCG: Week 17-19 @ 1000iu EOD

Aromasin: Week 17-20 @ 20mg ED

As an additional note: this is my cycle, though I appreciate your feedback, I don't want hear criticism unless it is absolutely necessary, generally I will ignore it. Things like "bro 16 weeks is too long!" or "bro you don't need tren on your 3rd cycle!" being the criticisms I'm speaking about. Though I realize most of these types of posts come from genuine concern, this posting is meant to be informative and hopefully entertaining, so stow it.

I will try to post a few times a week (I would do it everyday but I wanted to capture measurable changes and breaks in the posting should help to illuminate these, and I don't want to write that much) and I will try to include all the pertinent information I can think to include with each post. Maybe I'll even figure out how to get some pictures up eventually. Anyway stay tuned, it's gonna be fun.

[rootsnatty]

Oh I forgot to say that this is day 2 and my anadrol hasn't come yet, but I have everything else. After a faultless homebrew yesterday I was feeling over-zealous about juice and decided I should start immediately. So, at least for today and yesterday, I've just been using tren and test. One to each quad so far, I believe it is the porpionate, which I've never used before, that is causing the mild irritation I'm experiencing in my right quad today. I have, however, heard this is common with that compound. I'm really hoping to observe some tren cough soon, I'll let you know.

[Vitruvian-Man]

Testosterone Propionate: Week 1-10 @ 800mg/week (~120mg ED)
Week 10-16 @ 1200mg/week (~170mg ED)

I would rather opt to keep the dosage constant throughout the 16 week cycle. I don't see why you need a 400mg/wk boost in test after 10 weeks. I think 950mg/wk (weeks 1 - 16) is a much better idea. But your call.

Trenbolone Acetate: Week 1-16 @ 500mg/week (~70mg ED)

Anadrol: Week 1-5 @ 100mg ED

Anavar: Week 11-16 @ 60mg ED

So 16 weeks total (a long one), and a VERY long stretch of trenbolone.

Since my indigenous HPTA function will undoubtedly be sorely suppressed upon conclusion of this cycle I have included an aggressive PCT protocol. Here that is (thanks to Anthony Roberts for writing the informative PCT article that inspired this protocol which I'm always running into on Google):

I DON'T LIKE THIS PCT AT ALL...

THESE ARE THE MODIFICATIONS I WOULD MAKE:

Nolvadex: Week 17-22 @ 40/40/20/20/20/10mg (those dosages = mg/day&week)

HCG: Week 10-15 @ 250iu x 2 per week.
HCG: week 16 @ 250iu

Clomid: weeks 17 - 22 @ 150/100/75/50/50/25

Aromasin: Week 17-20 @ 20mg ED

^^ You can include the aromasin if you want to.

I will try to post a few times a week (I would do it everyday but I wanted to capture measurable changes and breaks in the posting should help to illuminate these, and I don't want to write that much) and I will try to include all the pertinent information I can think to include with each post. Maybe I'll even figure out how to get some pictures up eventually. Anyway stay tuned, it's gonna be fun.

My modifications are in red. Athony Roberts PCT isn't my favorite whatsoever. I am a huge advocate of the concept that one should NOT use HCG during PCT, and rather use it leading up to the PCT. The only time HCG should be used during PCT in my opinion is if one is suffering from extreme testicular function, from extended shut down.

Anyways, just some ideas to consider.

...Post up some pictures or this isn't even a real log bro.

-VM

[rootsnatty]

Thanks for that feedback Vetruvian-Man, I've also heard of using the hcg to get your HPTA producing before the end of a cycle and I will seriously consider this. I have a question though: why both nolvadex and clomid for PCT?

In regard to the increased dosage of test, from what I've read it seems that after a while your body will adjust to increased levels of anabolics and to elicit the same gains one must increase the dosage. Whether or not that happens after 10 weeks, I cannot say. But from your post I take it you think I'm in the clear regarding this issue?

And I will get those pictures up as soon as I can, along with a diet and training summary. Thanks.

[rootsnatty]

Oh, and I noticed when people post pictures they generally don't include their face. Is this a requirement, or just a guideline so people can't identify you?

[kevinrudd]

Oh, and I noticed when people post pictures they generally don't include their face. Is this a requirement, or just a guideline so people can't identify you?

people edit their faces coz they dotn want people to recognize them

remeber this is a publicaly viewable steroid forum

so if you dont want anyone knowing ur using steroids its prob best you edit your face

if you dont care, then you can leave it

[rootsnatty]

Ya thanks. Probably a stupid question. I'm not sure if I care. Maybe I will just to be safe.

[SpotMe87]

really eager to see how this course turns out, im planning a pretty similar course but without the tren. let me know how the anadrol treats you, u guna take an AI alongside it or not bother? dont think i will bother, not prone to gyno.
good luck

[SpotMe87]

forgot to ask, what are your aims from this cycle?

[Vitruvian-Man]

Thanks for that feedback Vetruvian-Man, I've also heard of using the hcg to get your HPTA producing before the end of a cycle and I will seriously consider this. I have a question though: why both nolvadex and clomid for PCT?

Yes, you should utilize HCG bro. Especially since this is such a long cycle you're planning. It will restore volume/size to your testes, and potentially allow for easier recovery during PCT.

The reason I recommend both is because I think it's not only smart, but more effective to run two SERMS simultaneously during PCT. It definitely makes recovering the HPTA easier.

In regard to the increased dosage of test, from what I've read it seems that after a while your body will adjust to increased levels of anabolics and to elicit the same gains one must increase the dosage. Whether or not that happens after 10 weeks, I cannot say. But from your post I take it you think I'm in the clear regarding this issue?

That is true. At a certain point your body can't force growth anymore. However, I was under the impression that you were using anavar as your "backload" compound, so I didn't see a reason to bump up the testosterone.

Like I said, I wouldn't necessarily do it in my own cycle (just because it's spiking your levels from a 10 week "homeostasis" to 1.2g per week.) Your call.

And I will get those pictures up as soon as I can, along with a diet and training summary. Thanks.

Good man. Post em' up quick.

Advice is in red-bold.

[rootsnatty]

Ok so here's an update... First, when I said I weighed 230, that was a guess/lie. Actual starting weight: 222

As of today (day seven) I weighed in at 226, I'm feelng more aggressive in the gym and I'm feeling pretty damn good all the time. I am getting measurably stronger already. Increased my bench 10 pounds last week and my squat 20 for an equal number of reps on both exercises. Also, I believe my stomach is looking tighter as if the bodyfat is falling off. I've been perfect with eating, lifting, and sleeping. All-in-all pretty good so far. My only complaint is daily injections are annoying because the sites hurt for a couple days afterwards (I'm thinking that's probably just the propionate). Then again, being able to blast daily is super exhilarating!

My daily food intake goes like this:

Breakfast:
6 whole eggs
2 cups oatmeal
banana
protein shake (~60 grams)

The Rest of my day involves me consuming 2 cups of jasmine rice (uncooked volume), 5 chicken breasts, 2 bananas, and a tupperware full of spinach over the course of the five meals which follow breakfast. After I lift I also down another protein shake.

Regarding photos: I have taken them, they are on a memory card, just gotta find a computer with a card reader now. Easy task considering I'm a college student, so they will be up in the next couple days. The pictures are front double biceps and lat spread, a back lat spread, and a shot of my legs.

Ok, time to answer some questions...

Vitruvian Man: Thanks again for your sound advice. I am leaning towards utilizing the HCG as you recommend because it makes more sense to me (better to be proactive with HPTA function then trying to shock it back to life post cycle). Also, I got some clomid now too. I've read several places that there is no point to using both clomid and nolvadex, but I figure its not gonna hurt to run both, and you seem knowledgeable, so I'm doing it.

SpotMe87: I am not using an AI until towards the end of my cycle when water retention will be undesirable (I'm competing in a bodybuilding show). I do have AI's and SERM's on hand though if any estrogen problems start to arise. Regarding my aims, I am doing a fairly lean bulk getting ready for the competition I mentioned above. The last 8 or so weeks of my cycle I'll start dieting and all that fun stuff, but for now I'm just looking to put on some lean mass, and maybe lose some body fat to make cutting easier. Additionally, I am a big proponent of anadrol, you definitely swell up quick, just make sure you got injectibles to conclude your cycle and make sure those gains from the drol don't disapear.

See ya'll soon, stay tuned, may the force be with you, etc.

[rootsnatty]

Sorry, I've been too lazy on my updates, but, as promised, here are some photos:
AC - Back Lat Spread.bmp

AC - Double Biceps.bmp

AC - Lat Spread.bmp

AC - Legs.bmp

AC - Side Chest.bmp

I hope I did that right.

I got my bodyfat tested on Friday the 26th and it came out to 15%. Everyday I look leaner though, and hopefully by the next test (Friday March 12th) my bodyfat will be substantially lower. Even with my apparently increasing leanness my weight is still climbing (232 today).

My aggression in the gym is absolutely insane at this point and all my lifts are increasing very quickly. My diet has been spot-on and everything else is falling into place. Needless to say, I'm very excited for the results I'll be observing in the immediate future.

The injection pain is almost unbearable some days though. I decided to hit my calves the last two days and the verdict is: incredibly bad idea, I can hardly walk today. I've read cutting the shots with sterile oil is a good way around this so I'm gonna start trying that tomorrow. If anyone has any suggestions regarding this issue I'd love to hear them.

Until next time, peace be the journey and happy lifting!

[rootsnatty]

It would seem like mixing the shot with extra sterile oil and a dash more benzyl benzoate is doing the trick. I hit my quad yesterday and there is no irritation, which is a first. The pain was starting to get to me, especially the calves which I mentioned previously, so I'm excited that I may have found an effective preventative measure. Additionally, I have started running the full syringe under hot water to raise the temperature of the oil to body temperature and provide a favorable viscosity, massaging the injection site thoroughly both before and after injecting, and injecting very slowly. These practices combined would seem to have alleviated the intollerable pain I'd been experiencing the next day, and if anyone is experiencing similar issues with testosterone propionate, I would recommend they follow this protocol.

[Vitruvian-Man]

It would seem like mixing the shot with extra sterile oil and a dash more benzyl benzoate is doing the trick. I hit my quad yesterday and there is no irritation, which is a first. The pain was starting to get to me, especially the calves which I mentioned previously, so I'm excited that I may have found an effective preventative measure. Additionally, I have started running the full syringe under hot water to raise the temperature of the oil to body temperature and provide a favorable viscosity, massaging the injection site thoroughly both before and after injecting, and injecting very slowly. These practices combined would seem to have alleviated the intollerable pain I'd been experiencing the next day, and if anyone is experiencing similar issues with testosterone propionate, I would recommend they follow this protocol.

haha, that's why they say bro: "prop is literally a pain in the ass!"

Glad you've found something that's working for you. I find 1/2 a cc of any sterile oil mixed w/ painful gear will help greatly. And yah, warming the oil pre-injection is a must IMO.

I can't believe you hit the calves w/ prop & tren, lol. That's like my worst nightmare. Do you mind reviewing with me which injection sites you're hitting specifically? (IE) do you hit 7 different sites, one each day?

You should definitely start seeing significant gains w/ strength soon. D-drol, prop, and the ace will all be kicking in immediately.

You've got a big frame BTW, should be interesting to see what happens to your physique post cycle.

Thanks for keeping us updated bro.

-VM

[rootsnatty]

Vitruvian Man, to answer your question I have been trying to shoot for six sites. I always hit the quads and shoulders as four of the six, but the other two I've been experimenting with to see where the pain is tolerable. First I was using each ass cheek, but then I had a really painful injection, so I made the incredibly bad choice to hit my calves. I'm still walking like a robot today. I'm going to try the ass again tomorrow and hopefully with my new procedure it won't hurt. Any suggestions for good sites other than those?

I'm already seeing insane strength gains, both from muscle and agression. I'm also pretty stoked about how I'll look post-cycle. Thanks for your encouragement.

[Vitruvian-Man]

Vitruvian Man, to answer your question I have been trying to shoot for six sites. I always hit the quads and shoulders as four of the six, but the other two I've been experimenting with to see where the pain is tolerable. First I was using each ass cheek, but then I had a really painful injection, so I made the incredibly bad choice to hit my calves. I'm still walking like a robot today. I'm going to try the ass again tomorrow and hopefully with my new procedure it won't hurt. Any suggestions for good sites other than those?

Well honestly I really like to hit the pecs (as long as it's low volume injections).

1cc - 1.25cc is easy and painless into the pecs. Although with prop you may get a little swelling (which will make them look temporarily bigger! )

Definitely hit the glutes again though. I can throw 3.5cc into each cheek with minimal discomfort. If you cut your next injection with sterile oil and inject into the glute IMO the pain should be none. They are the fastest recovering muscle for injections imoo!

Happy to hear strength is through the roof. I'll pop in from time to time to check out your progress

-VM

[juiceda26]

i have been using grapeseed with the prop and haven't even felt sore. Just in case you might want to know that. ml/ml mix.

[rootsnatty]

Yep, glutes are keepers. After cutting the shot with oil and injecting as I described above I felt golden. No problems sitting down or anything. Where do you hit your chest from? The side?

[rootsnatty]

The numbers don't lie! I got my bodyfat tested last Friday and the results were amazing! My bodyfat dropped 3.5% (15% to 11.5%) and I weighed in at 234. What that means is that even though I dropped that 3.5% bodyfat, my lean mass increased by 10 pounds in two weeks! That's ten added pounds of muscle. The lady who tests me straight called me out on using steroids saying that the kind of shift I exhibited was simply not possible under normal human conditions. I was very flattered.

I'm beginning to look very lean and clearly more muscular. My strength continues to increase with every workout, sometimes dramatically. Vascularity is beginning to come in very well (something I struggle with under normal leanness conditions), and my weak points are improving, although my biceps could use some more size and shape as could my calves. I'm very excited here and I'll make sure to post an update soon. Hopefully with more pictures.

See ya'll later.

[soulstealer]

Holy shit bro.. thats alot of gear...

[rootsnatty]

Hell ya! Thank you.

[MallmannStos]

Give some update bro

[oldschoolfitness]

just curious are you a big fan of homebrew gear? my current source is headed in only that direction and i suppose i will eventually jump on board (currently have kar. sust 20 amps) good luck with cycle dude curious how it will turn out great wheels by the way

[donberry427]

running that much gear you might as well run 250mg Test E after these 16 weeks til you get on your NEXT cycle IMO.

Edit: or atleast some GH

[Vitruvian-Man]

running that much gear you might as well run 250mg Test E after these 16 weeks til you get on your NEXT cycle IMO.

No.... He really shouldn't cruise. He's going to be "on" cycle for 4 months. Why would he extend his HPTA shut-down for another 16 weeks? He's only 23 man, he will recover fine, and quickly with a solid PCT lined up.

Edit: or atleast some GH

I guess w/ the GH part at least. It's the best compound to run year round, and help maintain gains..

Slin, and even peptide, help a great deal as well... but I'm not going to get into that.

-VM

[rootsnatty]

Sorry about my lack of updates. I am up to 240ish right now but looking way more shredded. Weight gain has slowed but I have begun dieting and finished my anadrol so that is to be expected. Getting way stronger too! I'm seriously a couple weeks away from benching and squatting 400 and 600 for reps respectively. I'm getting another bf% test this friday hopefully, so that should be interesting. I think the camera I was using was partially to blame, but I can't even believe those pictures were of me looking at myself now in the mirror. I'll try and take more tomorrow.

In regard to the homebrew question: I love it and it's the only way I like to have my gear. I can control every variable and the price simply cannot be beat.

In regard to the between cycle bridging comments: with a good pct I thibk I can hopefully keep most of my gains. I don't want to bridge with AAS because I want to give my HPTA a chance to recover and my androgen receptors as well. Growth hormone troubles me because I've heard it is responsible for the many distended bellies you see on stage nowadays. I've heard the continued growth of your organs can lead to "growth gut." Any opinions on this subject? If this is not the case growth might be perfect for me between cycles, but I would never risk bloating up my midsection.

[donberry427]

In regard to the between cycle bridging comments: with a good pct I thibk I can hopefully keep most of my gains. I don't want to bridge with AAS because I want to give my HPTA a chance to recover and my androgen receptors as well. Growth hormone troubles me because I've heard it is responsible for the many distended bellies you see on stage nowadays. I've heard the continued growth of your organs can lead to "growth gut." Any opinions on this subject? If this is not the case growth might be perfect for me between cycles, but I would never risk bloating up my midsection.

I was always under the impression that IGF-1 LR3 and Slin caused your intestines to grow, causing the bloated gut look (I.E ronnie coleman). But then again im not too sure about it, its been years since ive looked into all that stuff.

[MallmannStos]

So its 18lbs of quality in 30 days, thats great
Lets see now w/o the adrol if you lose something
I gonna run adrol/tren/test too in july, but only 10 weeks

[rootsnatty]

Ya, I would definitely recommend these compounds for a cycle, and 10 weeks would probably be a more standard duration.

As a note I'm getting into competition mode now so I started cardio today, diet last week and an eca stack will be starting tomorrow. Gains will probably slow, but I can't wait for the leanness!

[MallmannStos]

I think you shouldnt do ECA yet, it will low your apetite and rinder your gains, let to do it in the 6 final weeks, do 2 weeks ON then 2 OFF then again 2 ON
ATM if you are in pre-contest just low the carbs and raise the prots, the tren itself is the best in-cycle leaner you can get, just my 2 cents

[rootsnatty]

I would say absolutely yes, but my competition is in five weeks and I gotta really cut a lot of fat and preserve my muscle mass. Then I'll have more time at the end to really bulk. It's wierd how I've planned this one with my competition in the middle, but I think it's a good utility cycle for both my lean bulking phase, then precontest cutting phase, and finally followed by an all-out bulk. Good advice though, thank you. What does everyone else think?

[rootsnatty]

What's ATM by the way?

[oldschoolfitness]

thats a cramped schedule, but if you are pointed in that direction then by all means go for it. your body may peak at exactley the right time and if it don't you can make adjustments next time. good luck

my source has the same view with the homebrew, hell he even says its just as good or better than phar. gear. because of crazy work schedules he is going to show me how to take care of myself so i am excited, but still a little skeptical.

[rootsnatty]

So after dropping the drol I am five pounds lighter. Pretty sure it was all fat and water though because I can see more cuts and I look tighter, but definitely not smaller. Also, due to scheduling, I will have my body fat test result Tuesday. Stay tuned!

[Kiki]

What's ATM by the way?

at the moment

[rootsnatty]

So Easter was yesterday and I had a diet cheat of epic proportions. We're talking ham, cookies, ice cream, chips, and huge ammounts of candy. But this cycle along with the ECA is amazing! It all went right through me and I lost weight today and actually appear leaner! Good stuff.

Body fat test tomorrow at two. The ECA seems to be working great. I'm taking 30mg of ephedrine twice a day along with 200mg caffeine and 325mg aspirin. I don't feel jittery at all and have had no trouble sleeping, but have been getting nice energy boosts from it. I have been getting a couple nose bleeds a day since I started it. I'm taking them as indications that the ECA is working.

[rootsnatty]

So I've come up with my next cycle for off season bulking and summer power lifting:

Weeks 1-16: Testosterone Enanthate @ 1200/week
Weeks 1-16: Equipoise @ 700/week
Weeks 1-6: Anadrol @ 100 ED
Weeks 7-16: Trenbolone Acetate @ 600/week (~70 ED)
Weeks 1-18: Vitamin B-12 @ 1000mcg ED

Also:
HGH (Jintropin brand) @ 2iu ED - I will run this continuously for at least 6 months starting at the beginning of my cycle. The dose is low to concentrate mainly on fat burning and to retain gains between cycles.

PCT:
Weeks 17-20: HCG @ 500iu ED
Weeks 17-21: Aromasin @ 20mg ED
Weeks 19-24: Nolvadex @ 20mg ED
Weeks 19-21: Clomid @ 200mg ED
Weeks 22-24: Clomid @ 100mg ED
wEEKS 17-24: Vitamin E @ 1000mg ED

What does everyone think? Also, I've heard of using 4iu of HGH in two shots one day then taking the next day off to better mimic the secretion patterns of the human body, apparently a couple studies have proved this more effective than ED HGH injections, any thoughts on this issue?

[rootsnatty]

Correction: The Trenbolone Acetate will be utilized at ~85mg ED

[rootsnatty]

As an additional note, I have had no nose bleeds for the last two days! I'm pretty excited about that. My weight is holding at a fairly dry 235 and my strength gains are beginning to slow to about five more pounds per workout (I work each muscle group twice a week though). My body fat test today will help me make sense of exactly what's going on and where I'm at. Also, this morning, after I've slept, I'm hoping to get more updated pictures up!

[oldschoolfitness]

you might want to think about hitting muscle groups only 1x week since your gains have slowed. i know that is the norm after a cycle, but just a thought. can't wait to see some pics i bet you look great. this cycle has got me very curious about a cutting cycle for myself i don't have much experience with cutting compounds, but i am currently looking into it. good luck man nice job.
i am not asking for a source, but i am wondering what steps i need to take for the ECA stack eph. is hard as hell to get in the u.s. except for damn sudafed and you have to sign for it. thanks bro.