Sickness Unknown

[forrest_and_trees]

Wow... that's kind of a drag and frankly a bit disconcerting. I suppose if you look at chickens all day long... *everything* starts to look like chicken.

If it were me, I'd start making movements in the opposite direction and then run as fast as you can as soon as you're out of reach of the nets. Heir Dok-tor Freud doesn't sound like the best route for you. Did you show him the results of the ADAMs questionnaire? It's looking like these guys are making it out to be more than it is.. sometimes a cigar is just a cigar; no need for the Rorschach charts.

I'd avoid any stimulants, or anti depressants or even ED meds too for that matter. All they do is address the symptoms, not the cause.

As for an endocrinologist, unless your insurance will cover it, you can get what you need from any decent GP. I looked into endocrinologists too, but they seem to be way over paid. I say keep it simple, find a good General Practitioner, show him [or her] the ADAMs results, *TELL* them you *NEED* a Total Testosterone test and while your at it, throw in your Estorgen levels and TSH levels. It seems pretty obvious what your problem is, And yes, even at your age, while less common, it's likely. That's when mine started.

Lastly, do not walk out of the office until they hand you a copy of your test results.

[Epic Ed]

You need to get a copy of your blood work and check out the values, yourself. I'm assuming you're in the US -- if so, then you have a legal right to those results. Contact your docs office to ask how you can get a copy and don't take "no" for an answer.

I'd hold off on any psych referral at the moment. There may be more to the story, but you have a right to know why you're being referred for a psych appointment. I'm guessing they want to schedule an "assessment". If so, you can ask for the reason for the referral. If they won't give an explanation and continue to be evasive, tell them to eat a bag of dicks. It may be time to go ahead and start looking for a 2nd opinion.

[Hyposomnia]

Lastly, do not walk out of the office until they hand you a copy of your test results.

I will surely demand a copy!

I'm guessing they want to schedule an "assessment". If so, you can ask for the reason for the referral. If they won't give an explanation and continue to be evasive, tell them to eat a bag of dicks. .

Hahaha that was damn funny

Yeah I must stand up for myself, but its hard to convince them that I'm not a hypochondriac since they cannot "find" anything. I will meet a doc at the psychiatry on monday and ask them what the hell I am doing there.

What surprised me most at my last visit at the neurologist was that he told me that if my TSH, T3, T4 and Cortisol was normal, I could impossibly be suffering from low testosterone - is this true? Also he told me that lack of testosterone could not cause fatigue/sleepyness all by itself - I'm pretty sure the hell it can according to thousands of people on this forum and official reports on the net. Also shouldn't a blood test for testosterone be taken in the morning on an empty stomach? He didn't even ask if I had eaten, he just told the nurses to do it in the middle of the day.

Feels like I've been dealing with amateurs for a long time now. A few times when I went to see a doc, he googled after symptoms e t c haha, that is just embarrassing...

[Epic Ed]

Never accept "normal" as an answer to your blood level on anything. Ask for the specific numeric value and the range for that value. And, of course, always insist on a copy of your records.

[forrest_and_trees]

****WARNING - LONG POST****

What surprised me most at my last visit at the neurologist was that he told me that if my TSH, T3, T4 and Cortisol was normal,

Like Epic Ed said, do not accept "Normal"! That's why you need the numbers. ***I can't stress hard enough how important it is you DO YOUR HOMEWORK!*** Asking questions here on this site is a good *start* but you have to go further than "hey doc, some guys on line told me". That's where research and documentation comes into play. You need to document your findings and **HAND** them to your physician so they can educate themselves. Be sure to provide reference-able information. I wasn't kidding when I said to print the results of your ADAMs questionnaire.

Go to the following sites, READ THEM THROUGHLY and then print them out, TAKE THEM WITH YOU to your doctor, HAND THEM TO HIM. I'd highlight the key points before hand. That's what I had to do. My Doc originally said the same thing, "TSH numbers are normal". After researching my symptoms on line, I kept coming back to the same thing... It HAD to be Hypothyroidism! Even though my doc said my numbers were normal. So I finally went back and asked what they were, it turns out I was at 3.30 and if you read the links below, you'll see were that's no longer "normal". So I gave him the printed documentation, and said, "Can we at least put me on some Thyroid med and give it a try? It can't hurt can it?" He agreed and now he's fully in agreement that I DO have Clinical Hypothyroidism! I just e-mailed him a bunch of documents today about treating Hypothyroidism with T3, which is the next step in resolving my problem. I only found out about T3 by doing the research online. The info is out there, YOU just have to do the work and give it to your doctor!!


Link 1:
Major Revision Possible in Guidelines for Diagnosing and Treating Hypothyroidism
Link2:
Diagnosing and Treating Hypothyroidism
Link3:
Diagnosing Thyroid Conditions

I could impossibly be suffering from low testosterone - is this true?

Looks like a typo, not sure what you're saying here. Is what true?

Also he told me that lack of testosterone could not cause fatigue/sleepyness all by itself - I'm pretty sure the hell it can according to thousands of people on this forum and official reports on the net.

That's why I've been saying you need BOTH Total Testosterone *AND* TSH tests because it sounds like you have *BOTH* Low T AND Hypothyroidism. I too am dealing with both right now and the treatment is working. Now if I can get my doc to add T3 to my regiment, I think I"ll finally have it all under control.

Also shouldn't a blood test for testosterone be taken in the morning on an empty stomach?

YES... you should be tested in the morning. NO you it doesn't have to be on an empty stomach.

Feels like I've been dealing with amateurs for a long time now. A few times when I went to see a doc, he googled after symptoms e t c haha, that is just embarrassing...

We deify our doctors expecting them to know everything, truth is, there is SO much to know, they can't possibly know it all. It's frustrating but the truth is, you have to take matters into your own hands and *make it happen!*

Good luck!

[Hyposomnia]

And so I got them finally

TSH: 1.8 (0.4 - 4.0)
FT4: 17 (12 - 22)
FT3: 4.2 (3.1 - 7.9)
Cortisol: 538 (? - ?)
hCG: 3.8 (2.0 - 9.0)
Prolactin: 15 (4 - 24)
Testosterone: 15 (6 - 35)
SHBG: 49 (13 - 71)

The psychologist also wondered why they sent me there, she couldn't find anything that pointed to psychological problems... She told me that she will send me back to my GP to further investigate my fatigue/sleepiness and loss of libido.

That's all for now I guess

[Epic Ed]

Huh -- looks like they didn't test for total testosterone. The numbers you have are for "free" testosterone, which is one measure of how your T levels are doing. The other range is also important -- the "total" testosterone. Check out this link for more details about your blood work value levels:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=347127

They have an hCG value listed? Are you sure about that, because hCG is a peptide hormone that only naturally occurs in women during pregnancy. It is administered to men because it closely mimics FH and will help keep your balls from shutting down sperm production when you're on testosterone. Men do not have any naturally occurring hCG in their blood stream.

[Hyposomnia]

Huh -- looks like they didn't test for total testosterone. The numbers you have are for "free" testosterone, which is one measure of how your T levels are doing. The other range is also important -- the "total" testosterone. Check out this link for more details about your blood work value levels:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=347127

They have an hCG value listed? Are you sure about that, because hCG is a peptide hormone that only naturally occurs in women during pregnancy. It is administered to men because it closely mimics FH and will help keep your balls from shutting down sperm production when you're on testosterone. Men do not have any naturally occurring hCG in their blood stream.

I have no clue, but my papers says hCG :/
They obviously won't check my total value here where I live (Europe).
I don't know what to do anymore.

[Hyposomnia]

Check out this link for more details about your blood work value levels:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=347127

Ok so I read the post, and as I understand it, a test of the free testosterone is the most trustworthy right?

However, I don't see why they didn't check my estradiol value, since too much can cause similiar symptoms like testosterone deficiency.

And about hCG, it was a misread by me (I really have a hard time concentrating as I mentioned), it was for LH.
My FSH was also 2.9 (1.0 - 9.0).

Should I demand to meet a real endocrinologist or to first check my estrogen and total testosterone levels?
Also any of these relevant to check as well: DHT, DHEA, GH, IGF-1 ?

[n00bs]

I will surely demand a copy!



Hahaha that was damn funny

Yeah I must stand up for myself, but its hard to convince them that I'm not a hypochondriac since they cannot "find" anything. I will meet a doc at the psychiatry on monday and ask them what the hell I am doing there.

What surprised me most at my last visit at the neurologist was that he told me that if my TSH, T3, T4 and Cortisol was normal, I could impossibly be suffering from low testosterone - is this true? Also he told me that lack of testosterone could not cause fatigue/sleepyness all by itself - I'm pretty sure the hell it can according to thousands of people on this forum and official reports on the net. Also shouldn't a blood test for testosterone be taken in the morning on an empty stomach? He didn't even ask if I had eaten, he just told the nurses to do it in the middle of the day.

Feels like I've been dealing with amateurs for a long time now. A few times when I went to see a doc, he googled after symptoms e t c haha, that is just embarrassing...

Run from our NEUROLOGIST NOW!!!!!

Where are you from mate?

It look like your test range is nmol/L so it is total tetsosterone not free like the americans are thinking (they have diffeerent labr anges to us)..

Our lab ranges for total tetssoterone in austrlaia are around 8-32nmol/L

It could be anything, did you know you can have hypothyroidism and sitll have normal lab values? The hormones pool in the blood because they are not gettign access to cells ebcause of adrenal issues..

Serum morning cortisol simply shows what it is in the morning, we need to see what it is doing during the whole day and ight this is why 4x saliva testing is so valuble! You can not make a diagnosis of 1 single draw...

People have been treated for high cortisol and almost died because they have high morning cortisol then form adrenal fatique they have low cortisol afternoon night time... Leading to fatique ect. Though it could be high cortisol constantly leading to impaired GH release... Then you get stuck in a feedback loop of icnreased cortisol to meet demands of lowered growth hormone because cortisol stimulated repair from whiteblood cells due to inflamation.

It could be manymany things, a mineral imbalance, vitmain defficiency. Bad absorbtion of certain nutrients, food intolerance.. Slight neurotransmitter imbalance.

Also they tested for hCG? I think some tumours give off hCG but im not sure of any other reason they would test for this..


We need ot know youe estradiol e2... Look for an ultra sensetive urine e2 test on line from a private lab facility... shouldnt cost much then you will have an answer.. Do this along with the 4x saliva adrenal profile.