Big back

[pumpuplouder]

Hey everybody.

Through my year's iv noted all the changes in the body, how they react to training, when they seem to grow, what excercise's cause what reaction, all this.

But the one thing that really does anoy me is the back

It's different unlike other body part's it all recover's and react's totally differnt

I.e the arms, the biceps recover incredible quick and the tricep's are not far behind.

But the back is different completely

The lower back can take up to 5 days for soreness to go why the lat's sometimes don't even get sore.

So i have delevoped a uneven back, a very strong lower back but with unwide lat's and upper back

So im asking for exercise/ways to thicken and strength the lat's and upper back which give a person thickness and a thick back

Im planning to blitz my back for a while to get it up to scratch

Thank's guys

[Times Roman]

Welcome aboard mate!

What's your current routine, maybe we can fine tune it from there?

[Damienm05]

Need to see routine as mentioned but for a wide-upper back - here's my routine. BTW, my back is actually ahead of the rest of my physique by a good bit imo.

Deadlifts:
Warm-up x 20 then 10/8/6/4

Bent-Over BB row
12/10/8/6

Wide-grip chins (every other week, pull-downs instead)
4 x failure

Neutral grip chins (every other week, pull-downs instead)
3 x failure

DB bench row
10/8/6

If your back routine consists of mainly machines and non-heavy, non-compound movements, switch to something like the one I've posted above ASAP. Also, a lot of people under-train their back because it's a huge muscle group. The latimus dorsi are massive. 5 exercises is not excessive as it would be for say, biceps.

Another thing is with back, we often cheat ourselves out of gains. Our bent over rows look like deadlifts as we jerk our way to the top, our cable rowns look like leg presses, our pull-downs look like, well just awful! Keep your back bent/straight at a consistent angle and isolate those muscles! Focus on using only as much bicep as the motion inherently entails.

[sean_holland]

Need to see routine as mentioned but for a wide-upper back - here's my routine. BTW, my back is actually ahead of the rest of my physique by a good bit imo.

Deadlifts:
Warm-up x 20 then 10/8/6/4

Bent-Over BB row
12/10/8/6

Wide-grip chins (every other week, pull-downs instead)
4 x failure

Neutral grip chins (every other week, pull-downs instead)
3 x failure

DB bench row
10/8/6

If your back routine consists of mainly machines and non-heavy, non-compound movements, switch to something like the one I've posted above ASAP. Also, a lot of people under-train their back because it's a huge muscle group. The latimus dorsi are massive. 5 exercises is not excessive as it would be for say, biceps.

Another thing is with back, we often cheat ourselves out of gains. Our bent over rows look like deadlifts as we jerk our way to the top, our cable rowns look like leg presses, our pull-downs look like, well just awful! Keep your back bent/straight at a consistent angle and isolate those muscles! Focus on using only as much bicep as the motion inherently entails.

I personally disagree with this, if you are saying this in the order you would complete these exercises. I find that my lower back is engaged in a lot of balance during bent over rows already....why would I want to hamper my rows by destroying my lower back as the first exercise in my back routine?

I save Deadlifts for last, after my upper back is done, as my upper back being pumped doesn't take away from my deadlifts as much as my deadlifts going first would take away from my ability to support the weight and balance during heavy rows.

[goodlifting]

I personally disagree with this, if you are saying this in the order you would complete these exercises. I find that my lower back is engaged in a lot of balance during bent over rows already....why would I want to hamper my rows by destroying my lower back as the first exercise in my back routine?

I save Deadlifts for last, after my upper back is done, as my upper back being pumped doesn't take away from my deadlifts as much as my deadlifts going first would take away from my ability to support the weight and balance during heavy rows.

alot of people perform their compound movements before auxillary type exercises like rows. heavy rows are good but deads are the bread and butter to a thick back.

i cannot row nearly what i deadlift. therefore, if i want to row after deadlifting im usually able to support that weight. if i find it difficult to row a certain amount of weight, i lower it until i can perform it correctly.

[bigboomer]

As far asyour upper lats go because that seems to be you concern. Proper form seems to be thrown out the window by some people as they want to go super heavy with bb and dumbell rows, lat pulldown etc...make sure you can feel your back contract with each rep..Really focus on the squeeze and feel the lat being worked if your working you lats..if you need to lower weight a bit than do it and work you way up..this seems to bring some major strength over time My lower back gets working easily in most back exercises, but upper back I really have to be tight on form to feel it. I feel my whole entire back worked when my back day is over..jmo

[B-HALL]

I can see both sides of this. I feel like you should switch it up, for 6 weeks I'll deadlift first, then I'll do 1. pulldowns 2.barbell rows 3.deadlifts 4. one arm db rows 5.neutral grip pulldowns or reverse grip pulldowns. Usually I feel Deadlifts A LOT MORE in my middle and upper back when I do them after the pulldowns and rows. JMO

[bigboomer]

I personally disagree with this, if you are saying this in the order you would complete these exercises. I find that my lower back is engaged in a lot of balance during bent over rows already....why would I want to hamper my rows by destroying my lower back as the first exercise in my back routine?

I save Deadlifts for last, after my upper back is done, as my upper back being pumped doesn't take away from my deadlifts as much as my deadlifts going first would take away from my ability to support the weight and balance during heavy rows.

Agreed for me as well if I start off with deadlifts I'm shit the rest of my workout..deads destroy me! I do em last

[pumpuplouder]

wow thanks guys! how's this? 4x10rep sit down cable row's 4x10 lat pull down 4x10 bent over row 4x10 deadlift s'all iv got at the moment im ready to blitz give me exercises/routines and ill do them and post results!

[Damienm05]

I personally disagree with this, if you are saying this in the order you would complete these exercises. I find that my lower back is engaged in a lot of balance during bent over rows already....why would I want to hamper my rows by destroying my lower back as the first exercise in my back routine?

I save Deadlifts for last, after my upper back is done, as my upper back being pumped doesn't take away from my deadlifts as much as my deadlifts going first would take away from my ability to support the weight and balance during heavy rows.

Glad you said something Sean. I posted it that way because I warm-up with a set of 20 deads after stretching because they engage everything to come. The following sets are performed after everything else for the exact logic you stated. However, for someone who already claims to have a well-built lower back, I thought that posting a routine wherein deads are done first would be more beneficial. I find they are the bread and butter for developing that V-Shape.

[Jfew44]

Glad you said something Sean. I posted it that way because I warm-up with a set of 20 deads after stretching because they engage everything to come. The following sets are performed after everything else for the exact logic you stated. However, for someone who already claims to have a well-built lower back, I thought that posting a routine wherein deads are done first would be more beneficial. I find they are the bread and butter for developing that V-Shape.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. I've messed around with all sorts of workouts for my back. What I found after I herniated a disk is doing my lat exercises first (med and wide pullups, cable rows, lat pulldowns, barbell rows) and saving deads for last makes my lats grow like weeds. If your lower back is overdeveloped for the rest of your back, save the lower back exercises for last.

[Twist]

Could be genetics lacking which is always a thought. When deadlifting use an overhand grip and use a wide grip almost like a pull up. When you come up really squeeze your lats together. This is Milos' advise for a wide back.

On a personal note, I cannot train deads prior to back because of the fatique and crazy back pumps for the rest of the workout. Makes doing anything that is not a machine impossible. But if this is not a problem I too recommend doing them first then switching to doing them last. Doing them first (just like damien posted) is the smart thing to do as far as mechanics and safety go, but it might benefit you to do them last and switch things up. Just keep in mind that if a stabilizer muscle or core muscle goes because you fatigued it with other exercises you lower back is ****ed for a long time.

[pumpuplouder]

i dont think it's genetics at all, and im not asking about deadlifting people i already know how to do a deadlift when to do them and what results they give, im asking about lats

[Damienm05]

i dont think it's genetics at all, and im not asking about deadlifting people i already know how to do a deadlift when to do them and what results they give, im asking about lats

Nobody is saying you don't know how to do them but you clearly don't understand the full effects of them based on the above statement. The lats are engaged to a huge extent when deadlifting; especially with a wide-grip as Twist said. Not being a dick, just saying.
Regardless, back parallell to the floor, pinky finger on the line (as to not engage too much rear delt), low/athletic stance, bent over rows will be great for lats. Switch em up and use an open palm grip too every now and then. Just make sure form is spot-on and don't use your legs/traps.

[Older lifter]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. I've messed around with all sorts of workouts for my back. What I found after I herniated a disk is doing my lat exercises first (med and wide pullups, cable rows, lat pulldowns, barbell rows) and saving deads for last makes my lats grow like weeds. If your lower back is overdeveloped for the rest of your back, save the lower back exercises for last.

X2 on this,,, I too do dead's last,,, on the lats i use a dipping belt with weight,,, you stated that you do chins to failure but what rep range is that,,, keep in the building range by adding weight (if you not doing that already) and failing under control within the desired rep range

[Damienm05]

X2 on this,,, I too do dead's last,,, on the lats i use a dipping belt with weight,,, you stated that you do chins to failure but what rep range is that,,, keep in the building range by adding weight (if you not doing that already) and failing under control within the desired rep range

It's 8-12 - always building range. As I've gotten stronger/leaner - I've never felt the need to add weight; I simply come down in a slower, more controlled motion, all the way, and back up over 2 seconds or so. When I first started doing wide-grip chins, I would throw my whole body into it as most noobs do.

[Older lifter]

^^ i was doing the same, but have to admit that weights did help, i ran them increasing weight as i lowered reps over 4 sets from 12/10/8/6falure.

Other than that you seem to be doing most things right, not sure what else to surgest?

[pumpuplouder]

Im going to focus on squeezing my lats and doing heavier weights and really smashing my back hard also i may do back twice a week.