What can I expect from Test/Deca/Equipoise Stack?

[SomeRandomGuy]

I was thinking 12-14 weeks of Test 500mg/Deca 250mg/Equipoise 400-500mg.

I wanted to frontload 1st Pin: Test 1g/Deca 500mg/Equipoise 800-1g.

I still don't understand Esters, Half Lives, and Blood Concentration %. Not comprehensively, or ... even really.

I read this:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=181575

So if Test Enanthate is 8 days till peak concentration from it's initial injection, what is it on day 8 (% and mg wise)?

I'll do some more reading, it can't be that complicated. I'm reasonably intelligent, just lazy sometimes.

[200gamblr]

Mate what are your stats and what are you trying to get out of this cycle?

I did the same cycle (dosage was bit diff but close enough) after having only ever used test enanthate and being very naturally lean and hard. After the cycle I was bloated like a MO**** FUC*** and the EQ made me eat like a fat kid coming off a diet ALL THE TIME. End result was now I have to really keep on top of the diet, up the cardio hard and look at different types of gear (Tren/Primo/Masteron) to help cut away the extra weight.

Its only my recommendation and some one else will prob advise other wise but depending on what you want to achieve - I'd think about changing it.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Hmmn. I'm not all that lean now. 242lbs, 5'10", probably 18% bf. I can lean out pretty quick down to 218-220 with some Ephedra/Diet. I did it before last cycle of just Test, but after 12 weeks of eating good food I was over 250lbs. Now 2 mo after I'm back to the muscle size I was before, but sloppy. I've been lifting for 15 years so it's possible that I can't really gain anything keepable from AAS. Depressing to think that after another three months of hard work and sacrifice, after watching the gains again in awe, I'll just find myself right back at the beginning. Price to be paid to keep HTPA and nuts, I guess... A yo-yo.

Anyway thx for the advice. I'll take it under advisement. I thought eq gave hard, dense gains though? The test/deca would give more bloat, no? Maybe not.

[200gamblr]

Just my experience with it. maybe one of the more senior guys on here can give you a better guide than me. I always think its better to work out what your goals are for getting on the gear in the first place (you want size? or strength? Or to be cut?) and then from there you can pick what gear will best suit your purpose. Keeping in mind the need for PCT. Maybe one of the more senior guys can give you a better answer. Good luck bro.

[pavlenko]

diet and training will be the determining factor of how your cycle will turn out.

[scotty51312]

I definitley wouldn't consider it a cutting cycle. If you're having trouble keeping your gains read the sticky at the top of the page about PCT and how to keep your gains. EQ/Deca/Test IMO is a bulking cycle. EQ will give you gains but the sweet spot is going to be 400-600mg a week but it makes you hungry maybe some more than others but i know from my expierience being on EQ that i could eat the ass out of a skunk if you put hot sauce on it. If you're going to front load test why not use prop? I personally dont' see the point in front loading with long esters. The point of front loading is to get your levels up quickly and with a long ester its not going to come up much faster with a front load. Whats your cycle history?

[boyka]

Gyno, Acne, water retendion, oily skin. you can expect these by just taking those steroids, BUT if your diet, training, rest is in check maybe you will add some muscle and lose some fat.

[Lifeguard102]

I definitley wouldn't consider it a cutting cycle. If you're having trouble keeping your gains read the sticky at the top of the page about PCT and how to keep your gains. EQ/Deca/Test IMO is a bulking cycle. EQ will give you gains but the sweet spot is going to be 400-600mg a week but it makes you hungry maybe some more than others but i know from my expierience being on EQ that i could eat the ass out of a skunk if you put hot sauce on it. If you're going to front load test why not use prop? I personally dont' see the point in front loading with long esters. The point of front loading is to get your levels up quickly and with a long ester its not going to come up much faster with a front load. Whats your cycle history?

This guy articulated my thoughts well.
OP how old are you?
Test+EQ+Deca can be a bulker or a cutter. How? Diet.

Bulking diets include
oats, pasta, wheat toast, potato, carb shakes, dextrose etc, any fruit + veggie source, Milk, cheese, yogurt for me 5,000 cal , 350 pro, 500 carb, 100 fat.

Cutting diets include
carbs from bell peppers, spinach, blueberries, strawberries, peaches
for me 2,100-2,500cals 250 protein, 50 carbs , 50 fat.

You can see the difference.
If you took the exact same cmpds with a bulk diet you would exp smooth gains, less vascularity, less visible abs and some bloat. gain 20 lbs

With a modified diet similar to my cutting , the opposite would occur. possible gain 0 lbs. However your 18% bf would be more like 10%.

THIS IS JUST MY MOST GENERIC ATTEMPT TO ANSWER A QUESTION TO WHICH THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER BASED ON WHAT I HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH.

I HOPE this helps PM if not.
Life

[SomeRandomGuy]

Can you cycle with a ketogenic diet and see gains? If you carb-up cyclically? Carbs are my catch 22
I get strong as hell with them, but they make me explode. What about keto and eca or clen (actually I hate clen, make it eca). Y'know, I've been reading about ketogenic diets, and it's intriguing, and I bet it would work well. However, even though your brain might like ketones for energy, how well do your muscles work with only ketone bodies for energy? I'm probably lacking some fundamental understanding of biology and chemistry.

Thanks for the input, I appreciate the help. I know a 5000 calorie bulker with dextrose and maltodextrine gainers is going to get me buff as hell, but do I want that, or do I want to cut up? I don't think, and I'm sure you'll agree with me, that you can bulk without putting on some extra fat. I tried eca during last cycle and I think it kept fat at bay, but it also wore me out. Thanks.

[scotty51312]

its possible to put on lean mass without adding fat. Depends on how you train and how you eat

[SomeRandomGuy]

What diet would you say could accomplish LBM gain with fat loss (or at the very least no fat gain)? Could Ketogenic do it?

I thought for anabolism, eating over the BMR was a base prerequisite?

So if you're taking in more than you burn by definition, wouldn't gaining fat with the muscle be somewhat difficult to avoid?

Y'know on an irrelevant sidenote I just looked up 'Anabolism' on Wikipedia for fun, and it says that, " The classic anabolic hormones are the anabolic steroids, which stimulate protein synthesis and muscle growth. The balance between anabolism and catabolism is also regulated by circadian rhythms, with processes such as glucose metabolism fluctuating to match an animal's normal periods of activity throughout the day." Now I have to read about circadian rhythms, fascinating.

[zoltans4]

This guy articulated my thoughts well.
OP how old are you?
Test+EQ+Deca can be a bulker or a cutter. How? Diet.

Bulking diets include
oats, pasta, wheat toast, potato, carb shakes, dextrose etc, any fruit + veggie source, Milk, cheese, yogurt for me 5,000 cal , 350 pro, 500 carb, 100 fat.

Cutting diets include
carbs from bell peppers, spinach, blueberries, strawberries, peaches
for me 2,100-2,500cals 250 protein, 50 carbs , 50 fat.

You can see the difference.
If you took the exact same cmpds with a bulk diet you would exp smooth gains, less vascularity, less visible abs and some bloat. gain 20 lbs

With a modified diet similar to my cutting , the opposite would occur. possible gain 0 lbs. However your 18% bf would be more like 10%.

THIS IS JUST MY MOST GENERIC ATTEMPT TO ANSWER A QUESTION TO WHICH THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER BASED ON WHAT I HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH.

I HOPE this helps PM if not.
Life

great post life. very informative and helpful.

[ScotchGuard02]

There's a post by Big on keeping your gains after PCT. He basically says that what you'll keep after a cycle depends on your genetics, natural propensity to keep at a certain body weight, and diet. If your body can't maintain 300lbs (for sake of example) naturally and you take AAS to get there, you'll never be able to maintain that weight after you get off AAS. This makes sense to me. You should do a search and read Big's post.

[lovbyts]

Gyno, Acne, water retendion, oily skin. you can expect these by just taking those steroids, BUT if your diet, training, rest is in check maybe you will add some muscle and lose some fat.

You are close. I agree up to where you said BUT... Anything after that I would disregard.

It's VERY doubtful you would keep any gains and way more likely you will see some if not all of the above described sides along with others such as constant sweating, insomnia and others.

It would be money thrown out the window at this point. You need to visit the diet section and get your diet tuned up. You dont want to be trying to starve yourself and using AAS. You dont want to starve yourself at all, you just need to learn what to eat, when to eat it and to eat 6+ times a day.

5' 10" 242 lbs is at least 18% and you dont want to/should not cycle until you are around 12%.

Full stats please.

Age
Height
weight
body fat
cycle experience
lifting experience
Working out 4-5 times a week for how long consistantly
Diet experience

[NattyR1]

if ur going to do a cut cycle, stick with test and deca

second to post above, bulking cycle you need to have diet checked.

[SomeRandomGuy]

You are close. I agree up to where you said BUT... Anything after that I would disregard.

It's VERY doubtful you would keep any gains and way more likely you will see some if not all of the above described sides along with others such as constant sweating, insomnia and others.

It would be money thrown out the window at this point. You need to visit the diet section and get your diet tuned up. You dont want to be trying to starve yourself and using AAS. You dont want to starve yourself at all, you just need to learn what to eat, when to eat it and to eat 6+ times a day.

5' 10" 242 lbs is at least 18% and you dont want to/should not cycle until you are around 12%.

Full stats please.

Age
Height
weight
body fat
cycle experience
lifting experience
Working out 4-5 times a week for how long consistantly
Diet experience

31
5'9 3/4" (lol)
238-242lbs
One recent twelve week Test E/Dianabol Cycle. 2 mo. ago.
15 years
Most of those years but powerlifting 4-5 days/week. Very heavy weights, low reps, high rest, diet=anything.

I cut down to 218-220 with diet and cardio before last cycle, eating most of my carbs at breakfast and after workout, and just protein and fat after that.

On cycle I ate tons of tuna, steak, chicken, eggs, oatmeal, cytogainer, cottage cheese, peanut butter, olive oil. I didn't really plan out or count calories, I just ate every 3 hours. I ate at least 2g protein/lb bodyweight. Went over 250lbs. Benched 315 for 12 reps like it was light as a feather, got 405 for three easy reps.

Oh and I took ephedra/diphenhydramine HCL throughout which kept some fat off, but didn't do my heart any favors.

I guess I'd like the best of both worlds, massive strength plus size and definition all in one. Too bad you don't train the same way for those. I'm a bodybuilding newb.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Maybe I should purchase a fat caliper. Last time I got checked I was 12%. I was 18 years old and 204lbs. Had a lot less leg muscle though. Could still bench 405 though.