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Thread: Igf- slin - hgh - protocol

  1. #1
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    Igf- slin - hgh - protocol

    This is the read I was referring to: Anyone tried it? Subscribe to it? Science appears adequate -

    I highly recommend using a minimal schedule for all short chain sequence peptides, which include igf, insulin and even gh. I recommend using no more than 3 days per week, 2 days is fine, but no more than 3. The reason for this is that we are trying to prevent cell over-saturation and closure. All three products should be used in a similar manner.

    The protocol is as follows; inject all products post workout, preferably after training large muscle groups which cause the most glycogen depletion, hence providing faster uptake of peptides. A sample layout is to inject Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

    Immediately post-workout inject 10-15iu of growth hormone IM, using a insulin pin and inject in any small muscle group such as delts, triceps, or biceps. Wait 20 minutes for the half-life clearance and conversion to igf to begin its sequence from the growth hormone and then inject a small dose of igf to create a synergistic super charge of the conversion process. I would recommend no more than 30mcg at this time. 10 minutes later you will take Humalog insulin only, and inject 5iu. I recommend starting with 5iu because Humalog has a very rapid onset and is easy to control with sugar. In conjunction with igf, you will be hyper-sensitive to insulin so start small and slowly work your way up to a maximum dose of 12iu post-workout. You will want to have around 80-100 grams of simple sugars such as dextrose and grape juice and an additional 60 grams of whey protein at the same time as your insulin. You will then eat another moderate glycemic index meal one hour after your high glycemic shake.

    The reason for the high dose growth hormone is to take what would normally be your one week intake of gh and spread it out into 3 equal doses, injected pwo. This will create a truly anabolic rich environment and you will also benefit from full uptake due to your pwo depleted state.
    So there is our post-workout regime, 3 days per week. Certainly you should take more than this, shouldn’t you? For most lifters, this protocol will be sufficient for growth. For someone with at least 6 months of gh use, 5 or more cycles of insulin and who no longer responds to typical igf protocols, the following regime may be followed: In addition to the above outline post-workout method, you may add additional doses of igf as well as insulin on the same day as your post-workout injection.

    I would highly recommend you take 15mcg igf an additional two times per day. By taking less igf more often you will prevent cell over-saturation as well as receptor down-regulation. Creating a cell rich environment that saturates the cells infrequently will target massive cell proliferation. In addition you will take insulin 20 minutes after the igf on those 2 additional injections creating an anabolic rich environment that will last all day, 3 days per week.
    For a sample protocol for someone that works out after work, I would recommend you do the following: Take 15mcg upon rising in the morning, followed by 10iu Humulin R or Humalog 20 minutes later. Immediately eat a carbohydrate rich meal with quality protein and low fat such as bananas, oatmeal and egg whites.
    For lunch, take another 15mcg igf with 10iu insulin and have another moderate glycemic carbohydrate meal and protein with minimal fats. Follow the above listed pwo protocol to complete your three time injection schedule which will be used three times per week.

    If you follow the outline laid out for you above to the letter, you will put on a massive amount of lean mass with a minimal amount of fat. You will need an anabolic and androgen rich environment to complete the schedule such as testosterone and tren in addition to the peptide products. T3 and T4 will not be necessary on this schedule as your thyroid levels will not be affected.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by LBSOMEIRON View Post
    The reason for this is that we are trying to prevent cell over-saturation and closure.
    Lost me here. This statement makes no sense*, and it's supposedly to be the theoretical groundwork for most of the protocol. Can't recommend following a protocol based on a shaky foundation.

    *you can't "over-saturate and close a cell". What is he talking about? Receptor down-regulation? Down-regulation through IGFR degradation or reduced IGFR gene expression? Is he claiming that reduced IGFR expression can be mitigated or halted by taking every other day off? Where does that claim come from? Does down-regulation in this case mean the compound becomes clinically ineffective, or just that the impact of a given dosage is reduced? Is there any data (I'd even settle for a mechanism) to explain this?

    The last comment about T3 and T4 is a bit of a non-sequitur. This has nothing to do with thyroid hormones to begin with, so I'm not sure why that's in there. ...You also won't need to switch to synthetic oil in your car during this protocol, since engine wear will be unaffected.

    Quote Originally Posted by LBSOMEIRON View Post
    inject a small dose of igf to create a synergistic super charge of the conversion process.
    This also makes no sense. Why would adding a downstream product of a systemic cascade do anything to "synergistically super charge the conversion"? This isn't even a conversion issue. Conversion usually refers to the modification of one compound to make another. In this case, if you want to speed conversion, you increase the amount of substrate, increase the level of enzymes, change the environmental conditions... but adding more product doesn't speed conversion. Besides, this isn't even a conversion. It's a case where the action of one compound triggers synthesis of another. So even if this statement were more right, it would still be wrong.

    Bottom line... I'd say ignore this whole thing.

  3. #3
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    Hey, I'm only the messenger.

    I've read so much garbarge on this topic that I once thought I could write a book and now I've realized I'm confused out of my mind.

    My slin is just arrived, as did my IGF. My plan is to start October 1st with this:

    AAS Omitted, but probably a EQ, Test, Dball (front-load) Tren (with Dball)stack:
    5iu Slin PW 3 days a week
    40iu HGH (annual)
    50mcg IGF 30 days

    I train at 5am everyone morning for the next few months:

    Wake up to 40iu of HGH
    TRAIN
    Pound 25g of dextrose
    Stick 4iu slin and 40mcg IGF (do I need to seperate these)
    Drink abother 50g of dextrose with 25g of protein (whey)
    Drive home (with another 50 on standby if needed)

    Shower, get ready for work, Meal #1
    Cup of Grits
    dozen egg whites
    1 banana
    on may way to office, sip another 40g of Beverly (blend)

    3 hours later is my 2nd meal - usually ground beef (lean 96% and vegatibles, with 2tb of PB)

    - Do I need to eliminate the fat 3 hours later (Humalog)
    - Do I need a more carb substance in 3rd meal?

    Most appreciative - last post on this topic - obviously I'm nervous.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by LBSOMEIRON View Post
    Hey, I'm only the messenger.

    I've read so much garbarge on this topic that I once thought I could write a book and now I've realized I'm confused out of my mind.
    Congratulations. Being confused out of your mind is the first sign that you actually know enough to realize what you don't know. 99% of people never get that far. Talk to any scientist, any researcher, and only the undergrads believe they "know" anything. Everybody else beyond that is confused as hell and just trying to weed out the quality from the BS. For the record, I don't know a damn thing either.

    That looks very solid to me, incidentally. 75g of dextrose with 50g on standby should be plenty to compensate for the insulin, the grits and egg whites are purely for safety and daily energy at that point.

    How much ground beef you talking? Humalog pk profile is such that it peaks at 60 minutes, half life of 70-80 minutes. After 4 hours, at that low dosage you've essentially got complete elimination.

    Ground beef takes hours and hours to digest, so even if you were eating a pound of the stuff, you're really not looking at that much fat getting into your bloodstream during the effective duration of action. I'd say keep the ground beef. By that point, blood sugar levels have stabilized, so I'd eat the way you eat regularly.

  5. #5
    Belial ,
    I think in the protocol he is saying that T3 increases Igf binding proteins.
    So even though T3 will aid with fat loss it will decrease the anabolic effect of Igf.

    I still take T3 at 50mcg with Igf as long as I stack with Testosterone.
    This makes up for the loss of anabolic effect.
    Good to see you here B.
    Life
    Last edited by Lifeguard102; 09-15-2010 at 06:33 AM.

  6. #6
    Incidentally, sorry if my tone came across as condescending with my "congratulations". It wasn't meant to be that way. I truly respect this board as a standout among all the drivel that gets posted out there on the internet, and members here are willing to question the conventional wisdom and engage in some debate. I realize you were just the messenger in that previous posting... I have to admit, I'm used to the sort of reaming that researchers will give each other if their projects have loopholes. Graduate/medical boards are the worst... every sentence of your paper gets dissected, and if there's no proof... let's just say my ass hasn't recovered from a few early panel reviews. But it's a sign of respect, at the end of the day. People ask and argue because they want answers.

    And we're all just here looking for answers.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belial10732 View Post
    Congratulations. Being confused out of your mind is the first sign that you actually know enough to realize what you don't know. 99% of people never get that far. Talk to any scientist, any researcher, and only the undergrads believe they "know" anything. Everybody else beyond that is confused as hell and just trying to weed out the quality from the BS. For the record, I don't know a damn thing either.
    +1 on the confused part, had a friend ask me about peptide protocols and I told him 'how the hell would I know, seems like every day someone posts up some damned new info that says I have been doing it wrong all along' and thats been the norm for the last 7 or 8 years it seems.
    Thanks for the info Belial.
    Not wanting to hijack-carry on.

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    You do mean wake up to 4 iu's hgh not 40 right? If for some reason you mean 40, please reread everything you've read so far re hgh. In regards to the protocol if you do run it (assuming you don't mean 40 iu's hgh) and keep a log, I'd be very interested in following your progress.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by spicyer View Post
    You do mean wake up to 4 iu's hgh not 40 right? If for some reason you mean 40, please reread everything you've read so far re hgh. In regards to the protocol if you do run it (assuming you don't mean 40 iu's hgh) and keep a log, I'd be very interested in following your progress.
    Wow. Bell is the one dissecting each sentence and you are the one that picked off a typo. Very nice.

    Of course I meant 4. Sorry. I'm on 4ius 24/7/365.

    I'd be happy to post a log. It'll keep me accountable.

    Bell - I was actually proud of myself after your reply. I'm concerned with my layout and appreciative of the advice and endorsement you supplied.

    October 1 is my start date. Im going to start with 4 and move up to a Max of 10.

    These threads I'm reading have people gaining 20lbs in 4 weeks. If that's real, I'll be on cloud 9. Hell, I'll take 5-8lbs.

    I need to nail down my diet. It's good, but may need more Cals.

    Again, all your comments and support are appreciated.

  10. #10
    what up Lbs? I think ur following the Gavin Kane protocol in part.
    Some of what you're doing matches what he had his guys try.
    I'm not hijacking but I'm running a proto you may be interested in.
    I'll post the link as well. My idea is cycling within a cycle. Specific with
    GH + Igf. No slin. Anyway. I run GH+30 min Igf X3. I go into detail in
    the thread but this is the first month protocol. You may enjoy. I'll be
    subd to urs as well pal.
    Late,
    Life
    http://chemicalmass.com/showthread.p...ight=Riptropin

  11. #11
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    so... its ok to shoot igf and slin post workout, together ?

    i thought taking igf with carbs was bad... or does the insulin negate that ? or am i way off base ?

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    Appreciated.

    I went with humilin r instead. Just easier for me to take.

    On going to start Saturday. No cycle. Igf, slin, gh only.

    I train in the afternoon on the weekends and feel more comfortable.

    Starting with 4iu and 50mcg. Carbs reduced to 40g. I'll have some on standby but I think I'm ok here.

    I 'think' this was addressed but waxymaize is a no-go, but I'm good with maltodextrin, right? Made from corn, so I think I'm good.

    Thoughts appreciated.

    Will start a new log.

  13. #13
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    do u shoot your slin IM with your IGF ?

  14. #14
    Waxy maize (corn starch, essentially) isn't the quickly absorbed carbohydrate the suppliers and supplement companies want you to think. The hype about its "unique osmolarity" letting it pass straight through the gut is pure myth (This would result in horrendous indigestion- though carbs are not digested in the stomach...amylase is in the saliva and small intestine... the stomach is still controlling the rate of entry), and the single study ostensibly showing quick glucose spikes with the compound were actually not waxy maize at all, but a supplement made with potato starch.

    Waxy maize, as I mentioned elsewhere, can be used in a clinical setting as a "control" carbohydrate on the slow-digesting end; in other words, it's digested and absorbed so slowly that it can be considered a stand-in for "complex carbs".

    Relying on waxy maize to stabilize glucose levels when using large amounts of insulin (particularly humalog) could quite frankly be fatal.

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    Fatal bro? Now you worry me. I did get Humulin-R instead of humalog.

    I ran a search on this board and there are quite a few using it. What if I go 5iu, with 35g of waxy and then have the quicker carb on standby (apple juice, coke, etc)

    The ONLY reason is I got two free large tubs of Kwick Karb (WMS) and I'd like to use it if possible....I would NOT like to use it if it puts me in jeporday.

    Remind me one only thing. IGF - I'm taking my gh before I train, it's no good to take both IGF and slin consequatively, correct? Wait.....15 minutes? Slin shake IGF?

    I can do both Sub-Q?

  16. #16
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    PS.. I do appreciate your advice.

  17. #17
    Hey, no worries on your front. The slower, lower peak of humulin makes it a little less critical. In the amounts you're using, you should be ok, (and I wouldn't say this if I thought your protocol would unduly endanger your health).

    My main concern is that there could be individuals out there reading who are on more aggressive insulin protocols, taking large doses of humalog, who believe pounding a waxy maize shake will compensate. Humalog can drop your blood sugar to dangerous levels in minutes... with Humulin, you'll have time to feel it coming.

    Both can be subQ (IGF's release profile is almost identical IM v SubQ), you can actually take insulin and IGF at around the same time. Humulin will be at biologically significant levels for 6-8 hours so attempting to functionally split them up would put them at opposite ends of the day. Slin-shake-IGF should be fine.

  18. #18
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    Your expertese and asistance is well appreciated.

    I'm ready to go.

    Off base, I keep reading about how some gain a crazy amount of fat. I am assuming this is ONLY because there caloric intake in extreme and/or they are consuming fat within that 4-5 hour window?

    Can you use slin during dieting? Or does it defeat the purpose? Meaning, can one still in contest condition while on slin?

    Final - this distended gut from slin and IGF - it used to be GH, now it's moved to the aforementioned....how true is this?

  19. #19
    Assuming overall calories are fairly in line, I wouldn't worry too much about depositing too much fat.

    Regardless of nutrient partitioning, your body is still running on calories in versus calories out. Even if you were to deposit some extra fat immediately post-injection, you'll simply release more later in the day to fuel basic aerobic functions if you're ever in a slight caloric deficit.

    You can use insulin during dieting as a powerful anti-catabolic... however I'm not sure I see the point. There are better ways to prevent post-workout catabolism that don't involve using such a risky compound. If you're tremendously hypocaloric anyway, I'm not sure it's beneficial to be ingesting large amounts of sugar to stave off hypoglycemia... and it's certainly not worth limiting your sugar intake after your shot to keep your calories down!

    Distended gut from insulin- it's partially a visceral fat issue, but there are a few other contributing factors I mentioned in the other thread. Honestly, I haven't seen much research in that area; I can only say with any degree of certainty what it is NOT (i.e., it is not GH causing the guts).

  20. #20
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    I can sincerely appreciate a student of the game for I too am one, yet you have me by the balls when it comes to slin.

    Still planning on starting October 1 and hopefully you'll be on my thread.

    My sincere fear has now moved from hypo to getting fat. I've never over 10% and have visiable abs all year.

    It's that mind f*ck that kills me.

    My diet is pretty much on point. I subscribe by very high protein, mod fat, low carbs because it works for me.

    If I keep it the same and just add the 100gs or so (overall) of post slin carbs, that's only an additional 400 cals.

    I am ready to go. I'm going 6ius to start with 40mcg, simultaneously. Then 45g of waxy maize and 40g of whey iso.

    You should see my house, car and office. I got sweet tarts, smarties, etc. everywhere. People that know me and my lifestyle are like WTF? You don't eat this sh*t....

  21. #21
    I have found 40 mcg of Igf at once is a waste.
    Even at 15 mcg the receptors in the target area will have a small "overflow"

    I have used Igf from 10mcg - 100 mcg.

    microdosing at 15mcgx6 works best IMO.

  22. #22
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    Really? Interesting. I really want to go 30 days so I'd max out at 50mcg.

    Would 10mcgx5 or 15x3 be better than 40 at once?

    Guys I train/compete with swear by 25mcg bilateral.
    I'll try it if you agree.

    What's the daily protocol? Do I need a small meal each time?

  23. #23
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    20 lbs in 4 weeks.

    I'm pretty sure in I'm going at it tomorrow.

    4iu
    Train til 5pm. Pin.
    50/35g Kwik karb
    Hour later. Oats and eggs.
    Hour later. Isolate and oats. Shake.

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