Got my blood results and ......

[Inquisitor]

My Luteinizing Hormone and my Follicle Stimulating Hormone are both low. Less than 0.1. Should I take HCG ?? Any thoughts?? No... let me re-phrase that..... Any knowledgeable advice??

[steroid.com 1]

If you are in HPTA shut down that's exactly what you would expect. You are injecting Test down stream of these hormones so need for them...hence, shut down.

Yes, HCG will do much of what LH does and to some extent FSH as well.

Why we need HCG...and for a lot of other reasons as well my man!

Read this post I wrote a few months back re HCG and Pregnenolone; this should help you:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ou-should-know.

[Vettester]

If you are in HPTA shut down that's exactly what you would expect. You are injecting Test down stream of these hormones so need for them...hence, shut down.

Yes, HCG will do much of what LH does and to some extent FSH as well.

Why we need HCG...and for a lot of other reasons as well my man!

Read this post I wrote a few months back re HCG and Pregnenolone; this should help you:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ou-should-know.

gdevine, that was a great thread you wrote, and it really summed up the whole HPTA process nicely! I posted some threads on pregnenolone last year, and still cycle it in with my HRT. It should be looked at by everyone who is on or considering HRT.

OP, yes, read that thread and look at incorporating HCG into your routine. My baseline LH was around 2.0 when I got on HRT almost 3 years ago. Exogenous test took my score down to what you're seeing, <.01, which was no fun with the testes. HCG made it better than ever! I had to adjust my cyp dosage down a little, as my endogenous production increased with the HCG, but you can deal with that as it develops.

[Inquisitor]

Devine... that is a very enlightening post. Thanks very much. These are the questions that I have now.

My liver was diagnosed to have "high liver function". It's like 3 times the normal amount. The urologist said before he does anything, he wants me to get off of the testosterone and allow my liver to stabilize. I read in your article that some people take HCG orally to bypass the liver. Should I take the HCG orally?

Also... by taking HCG will this kick start my system so it will one day function normally ?? In other words, after I get back to normal, can I cease the HCG and have my glands work in sync?

Lastly.... I am discontinuing the testosterone injections for above said reasons (liver). What doses should I take ? The basic 250 iu twice a week ??
___________________________________

Some points to consider::: My prolactin and progesterone levels were normal. My estrogen was low/normal.

[steroid.com 1]

Devine... that is a very enlightening post. Thanks very much. These are the questions that I have now.

My liver was diagnosed to have "high liver function". It's like 3 times the normal amount. The urologist said before he does anything, he wants me to get off of the testosterone and allow my liver to stabilize. I read in your article that some people take HCG orally to bypass the liver. Should I take the HCG orally?

If you are injecting or using creams/gels you are completely bypassing your liver so why in hell would he want you to stop? Are you aware that you are in HPTA shutdown and the consequences of stopping? You are going to throw everything off not discounting what will happen to your metabolic rate. Ask him, before you do this, what he plans on doing to get you restarted. I would ask that your Doc get a 2nd opinion from a TRT specialist before you do this.

Also... by taking HCG will this kick start my system so it will one day function normally ?? In other words, after I get back to normal, can I cease the HCG and have my glands work in sync?

HCG acts as LH and as such your testicular glands respond accordingly. If you are secondary hypo then HCG will help in producing natural production. It will not "kick-start" in the sense that if you stop your testicles will continue to produce at the given rate...they won't.

Lastly.... I am discontinuing the testosterone injections for above said reasons (liver). What doses should I take ? The basic 250 iu twice a week ??
___________________________________

Some points to consider::: My prolactin and progesterone levels were normal. My estrogen was low/normal.

Read above in bold.

[Inquisitor]

I would love to know how to find one of these doctors that specialize in HRT, TRT and PCT. This urologist refers to much of this as gym talk. I'm googling in my area and can't find anything solid. I really asked this urologist some pretty direct questions and he couldn't give me answers and just feels I should get clean. His main message was STOP DOING THIS STUFF.

What is your advice, Gdevine? Do you have any thoughts on my condition ? by the way... i have hcg on hand here, along with clomid, nolva, arimidex, proviron, liv 52 and testosterone serum for injections. Please let me know your thoughts. Ask any questions you may have. Thanks again.

By the way, my last inection was 1/2 cc of sustanex 325 on this past Friday morning.

[steroid.com 1]

Inquisitor - Honestly, you need professional medical advice from a trained Physician who understands TRT protocols. I will PM you with two well known Physicians who will consult with you over the phone.

How complete are your labs?

[bass]

Read above in bold.

Man O man! GD you hit the nail on the head!

Inquisitor, this is exactly what happened to me, my liver reading went above normal and my family doc said to stop TRT! he is totally clueless when it comes to TRT, so i called my clinic and they put me on Glutathione injections, and my liver went back to normal within two weeks while i was on a blast (300 mgs test/300 mgs deca). Glutathione is about $125 from my clinic so its not very expensive, the only thing is you have to shoot 3 times a week IM!

[sirupate]

What the guys above me said....but generally, anything you inject such as HCG or test. cyp. bypasses the liver and should have no effect on your liver function numbers being high. Orals, on the other hand, are metabolized via the liver and if toxic to the liver, will impact your liver function numbers. So, one question you need to get a handle on is why are your liver function numbers out of range?

[Inquisitor]

Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate all the help and input. One thing I wonder about though, is that when I did my first cycle, I was told to incorporate Liv 52. Also, I've heard people who used testosterone talk about having to quit because of their liver. Now, I don't doubt anything said here, but maybe I'm misunderstanding about why some people talk about liver problems with testosterone shots.

[steroid.com 1]

Liver problems are only associated with oral steriods...old skol.

[bass]

Liver problems are only associated with oral steriods...old skol.

yup! exactly what i was going to say!

[bass]

Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate all the help and input. One thing I wonder about though, is that when I did my first cycle, I was told to incorporate Liv 52. Also, I've heard people who used testosterone talk about having to quit because of their liver. Now, I don't doubt anything said here, but maybe I'm misunderstanding about why some people talk about liver problems with testosterone shots.

get the Glutathione, even if your liver is failing for whatever reason, the Glutathione will cure it. trust me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh2PYQBICWs

[GotNoBlueMilk]

the only thing is you have to shoot 3 times a week IM!

This typically comes in 600 mg vials that you mix with 4 ml BW. So is this 4 ml IM each time? OUCH!

[GotNoBlueMilk]

I saw in your other post you are doing 1 ml 3x per week. So I assume this is 150 mg each injection.

[bass]

I saw in your other post you are doing 1 ml 3x per week. So I assume this is 150 mg each injection.

i am not sure about the mgs, but yes 1 ml three times a week! the clinic supplied me with 1.5" x 25g. needle, but i just used the 1" x 27g. needle and was so much better, no need to go that deep with water base compound, especially if you're doing it three times a week!

[GotNoBlueMilk]

i am not sure about the mgs, but yes 1 ml three times a week! the clinic supplied me with 1.5" x 25g. needle, but i just used the 1" x 27g. needle and was so much better, no need to go that deep with water base compound, especially if you're doing it three times a week!

Ok, 1" x 27g makes it a lot more tolerable. Thanks.