In the right forum?

[ozzie43]

Hello All from the new guy! 43 y/o in Colorado. Have been working out (without any programs/cycles) for 2 years. 5'11", 179 and 20%. Had GP run T levels and results came back "normal" (???) but need to lower cholesterol. Will ask GP for T stats and post if successful. Stagnant in size and strength and wanting to increase both while decreasing BF. Any advice, suggestions, recommendations greatly welcomed. Thanks!!!

[Vettester]

Welcome to the forum. Yes, please post your labs when you get them including the ref. ranges. It would be good to see a complete panel, so hopefully your doctor didn't just run a total serum lab on the hormones. You can refer to the "Finding a TRT Doctor" sticky for the list of labs that you should be considering.

Beyond making sure your hormones are optimized, so much depends on diet, sleep, and the type of exercising that you are doing. You will find other forums on this site that will help you in all the departments.

[ozzie43]

Will do and thank you Vetteman! Will take the TRT doc advice. I've reviewed the list you described and will see what info I can obtain from GP. Also read some great info on low T and effects of such. Alot of it hit the nail on the head. I've hit the proverbial wall it seems and I know I can achieve more; but with help. Great info all around in these forums! Thanks for the support!

Ozzie

[kelkel]

Stick around Ozzie. You'll learn alot here.

[ironbeck]

Welcome...I been to Beaver creek, denver, vale, CO for sking....denver was a dump, but the others were of course(ski resorts) beautiful.

[ozzie43]

Thanks KelKel and Ironbeck. Found a TRT doc and have appt for next Sat. They will run all the panels suggested. Will need some advice on results, their proposals and cost. I've been glued to this site reading material and have to say it's quite confusing as far as cycles, oct, pct and what should go with what and frequency. The TRT offers test cyp, hcg and arimidex every 7-10 days. Their frequency doesn't jive with what I've read here. Looking to do this properly and would like you opinions on their schedule. This could be my 1st, if you all think this is a good way to start.

Ironbeck, I used to live up near aspen but had to move along the front range to be closer to childrens hospital about 12 yrs ago. Concur with Denver and mtn remarks. In less than an hou, depending on activity I can be boarding, hunting, fishing, climbing or 4-wheeling. Makings for great weekends!

[Vettester]

Very familiar with the Denver area. Always like going there.

[kelkel]

Ozzie why don't you post your bloodwork here so we can review it. Reason I say that is in your first post you say your levels came back "Normal ???" which I interpret to be low normal. You may be able to avoid TRT with some alternative therapies and get your T level back in the ball park. HCG, Nolvadex, etc. If you can avoid it, do so.

[ozzie43]

Will do Kelkel. They will perform total test, psa, estradiol and cbc with initial consult. Other labs are available for additional cost. Will these suffice or should I order others as well for you to review? So avoid TRT. I can pay for the labs and forego their 10 week program or ask for alternates. Probably better off posting my results and getting member recommendations. Thanks for the advice and let me know if I should order other labs as well. I really appreciate the help!

[keep fightin]

hey ozzie, welcome! If you look thru some of Bass's threads for example you will see some of the current labs he done, from what I've seen the more baseline results you get now the better our brainy crew can help you. Thyroid, lipids, if you can swing it you will get a wealth of info here. the "10" part of that 7-10 days protocol is not sounding to good to me...

[ozzie43]

Hey KP and All, this is what I'll get on the 1st consult from this trt doc. Total test, psa, estadiol and cbc. For additional costs, they offer the following (some included w/ 1st consult as mentioned): estadiol, total test, free test, total and free test combo, cbc, lh, igf-1, dhea, tsh, t3, t4, cmp, lipid panel and vitaimin d3. Most of this is foreign to me, so if something is missing or not needed please let me know. If this is complete, I'll request all at my appt.

From Kel's post, yours and the info that I've read so far on this site, it appears that I might only get lab work done from this clinic and no treatments. Unless, this trt doc is willing to work with me on member's recommendations (at my request of course). How likely is that with a trt doc?

[ozzie43]

Just to clarify one thing; I'm going to a men's health clinic in lieu of seeing a typical endo doc. Perhaps what they display on their website doesn't tell the complete story of services offered. Just a thought. I will check out Bass's threads. Thanks!

[kelkel]

For bloodwork look at the Finding a TRT Physician sticky at the top of this forum. Print out that bloodwork. I seriously encourage you to try alternative therapy first.

[ozzie43]

Printed. Found a different doc from the lef website. Thanks Kel.

[ozzie43]

Don't mean to be a pain in the arse, however, I want to ensure I go to the right doc/clinic and start off properly. Per Vette's and Kel's recommendations, I've been reading threads, following member posts and suggestions and now more confused than ever. I've learned that TRT and HRT are the same; just different names. Would it be out of line to have one of you look at the lef website and make a recommendation for my location? It appears that wherever I go for the BW, they'll want me to follow their therapies which might not be condusive to Kel's recommendations of HCG, Nolvadex, etc... I see the importance of creating the relationship with the doc and myself, thus the request.

I found a handful of places on the lef website and they each have commonalities and differences. I don't want to get stuck in one place, get the BW and then start over again with more BW somewhere else when I post the results. My finding appears to be a good place, perhaps a chain, however, others have qualities as well. I know names are not welcomed here, perhaps there is a way to point me in the right direction. One thing is certain, I'm definitely getting enough research in these forums. Perhaps when and once I get started, I can start putting the puzzle together.

[ozzie43]

If this is something i just have to do on my own and ask questions before any appts, i completely understand. Trying to save time, $$$ and b.s.

[kelkel]

Don't really know if us looking will help. I'd suggest calling them and basically ask if they will treat you per Crislers protocols? The nurses should know. If not, call the next one. The bloodwork is yours. You pay for it so be sure you get a copy. That way if you have to relocate to another office you have it with you. Start a file and always get the copies.

[ozzie43]

Right on! Thats great info. Thanks Kel.

[ozzie43]

Kel, will have suggested BW done tomorrow. Will post results as soon as I get them. After repeated attempts, I found someone willing to treat per Crisler's protocols and thinks it's a great idea. Do you have any advice for my 1st visit with this doctor? Things to ask, requests, et al. I was able to read some brief material on Crisler's protocols, however, nothing as far a treatment therapies. Just articles on the postive effects on HCG. Knowing therapy is dependent on my labs, I have yet to find HCG in conjuction with x, y and z per his protocols. My goal is to go in there informed. Thanks in advance.

[kelkel]

Look here: http://www.allthingsmale.com/publications.html
Print what you need.

I'd suggest continually reading over the relevant stickies and begin to take some notes on what is important to your situation.
Write down a list of questions for the doc. Make sure you already know the answers based on your research here and elsewhere.
If the answer is different than expected, talk about it.
Again, seriously talk to him about alternative therapy to jump start your sytem (HCG-Nolva-Clomid)

If you end up going the TRT route, discuss all avenues and make an informed decision. A lot of docs tend to want to start people out on gels. They can work fine for many people. If that course is chosen I'd personally suggest Androgel 1.62% for the basic fact that it's non-sticky and dries quickly. I did it for about a year and did well but it gets a bit old. Lifestyle plays into your decision. Kids, etc.

If injections are chosen, which most here will steer you toward. Start lower (maybe 100mg +/-) and titrate based on bloodwork. It should be a minimum of once per week based on the half life of T. If you hear anything else, run. Some of us here take that one step further and split that dose in half and inject every 3.5 days. That may be too much for you to start with until you settle in. Make sure the doc is willing to let you home inject.

Pellets may be offered which are implanted under the skin and can last for months. There are only 1 or 2 guys here just beginning on them that I am aware of. We are still waiting on their BW updates. Most experts in the field (including Crisler) will steer you away from this.

If you choose HRT make one protocol change at a time so you know exactly what effect it has on you. Re: HCG, Adex

If you can, add vitamin D to the lab request also...

Post up!

[ozzie43]

Tried to get bloodwork from PCP, but unsuccessful other than Lipid panel and Vitamin D. Should have those by Thursday. I saw my T levels from 6 months ago and were 621. So I'm middle of the road. Was instructed by Endo (who will treat per Crisler's protocols) to become a member of LEF and order the male hormone panel. Membership saves a few hundred on labs. Dependent on labs, he's willing to work with me on alternative therapies, injections, compounding pharmacies and so forth.

Thoughts on 621 as well as LEF male hormone panel?

[kelkel]

621 can be good depending on what your free T is. It's all how you feel. You are not a number. Your free T is what's available for use in your body and is not bound by shbg and albumin. LEF panel will be great I'm sure. It doesn't have bio-T but that's fine. See if you can add DHT.

Read this: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ne-Blood-Tests

[ozzie43]

At the time I took the lab, I was on two supplements (along with my normal daily vitamins) bought at a health store via recommendation from a friend. One was calle T-Male and the other Tribulus Terrestris. Wasted money IMO and don't know if they could have elevated me to 621. Thanks for the link and I'll add will request DHT with the LEF panel.