First Cycle Help (Sustanon & Prop) (DBol)

[Anabolick]

22 male (23 next week). 6'1 195 lbs at around 14%. Been training for about 2 years naturally and looking to start my very first cycle soon.

I've done alot of research on both Sus and Prop, i'm aware Prop is a short ester and Sustanon is a mix (and already has a small amount of prop in it). Will also have armidex during cycle to prevent bloating. Won't overdue to to over suppress Estrogen though.

I am aware i'll be injecting EOD however I have a few questions...

1.)Regarding the injections; would it be safe for me to make my own blend to limit the number of injections I'll have to do? I realize this might be painful.

2.) The dosages. Considering I'm not a "gym newbie", I want to try higher MG for this cycle. I'm thinking Prop/Sus 100/100mg EOD, is that reasonable?

3.) 8 Week cycle or 12 week? (NOT INCLUDING PCT)

4.)PCT: Clomid/Nolvadax. I'm pretty sure this enough unless anyone else has extra input.


Thank you for reading. Please reply if you can possibly help! Thanks!

~Anabolick

(PS. I have my mind set on running both of these compounds on my first cycle, please limit comments regarding running only one of those or running Test C/E instead.)

[Anabolick]

Bump :0

[sharmabrah]

Bump :0

Any reasons why you can't wait until you are twenty four or twenty five?

[Anabolick]

Bump...

[gixxerboy1]

you have your mind set on prop and sust mixed. May i ask why? Makes no sense to run both and inject eod.
and your dosage is to high. Its you first cycle. You may not consider yourself a " gym nembie" but your a steroid nembei and your stats dont require more then a normal first cycle dosage

[JWP806]

I'll skip on telling you that you are too young. I'm sure plenty of others will jump in to tell you that. I would just run test e or c at 500mg/week pinning 2x week. I would run that for 12 weeks.

[Anabolick]

you have your mind set on prop and sust mixed. May i ask why? Makes no sense to run both and inject eod.
and your dosage is to high. Its you first cycle. You may not consider yourself a " gym nembie" but your a steroid nembei and your stats dont require more then a normal first cycle dosage

Thank you for the comment. The reason I am choosing to run both is I have seen results from others who either ran test + deca their first cycle and Prop + Sustanon. I saw much better results, and less bloating from those who took the latter.

And the reason I chose both is because I would still have to inject prop. EOD anyways so i threw Sustanon in with it. I've seen that a variety of tests in a cycle will increase results, even for a beginner. this is pure speculation of course and I see no risk in running both anyway.

Also, what dose would you recommend? That all evens out to about...~600mg of prop/sus a week , not too bad...i guess i'll lower it to 75mg of each EOD

I'll skip on telling you that you are too young. I'm sure plenty of others will jump in to tell you that. I would just run test e or c at 500mg/week pinning 2x week. I would run that for 12 weeks.

Thank you and the reason I don't want to run Test e/c is because of bloating and I have no problem pinning EOD. So i'll guess i'll run the Prop/sus for 12 weeks though.

[dogtags]

1. Too Young
2. Too much crap for a first cycle
3.Not educated enough

I could sit here and follow you posts in anticipation of the train wreck you are on, but Ill do you the courtesy. Just read what i have to say, as well as others who will chime in.

-2 Years in the gym doesn't exactly get you away from being a "gym newbie" nor does it constitute a higher dosage and/or using more than one type of steroid for your first cycle.

-You are young, why not just wait? Seriously, when i was 22 i was still trying to screw holes in my sheets, use what natty test you are still producing to your advantage, don't possibly ruin it by overdoing a first cycle.

-Read the stickies...Seriously, read the stickies. There is so much info in there it will blow your mind. I know you will have some general questions, but basically everything you are trying to do is covered in the stickies, and the answer for all of them is "NO".

But, if you insist on ignoring everything above, as well as the suggestions of other members do this:

12 week cycle
300-400mg of ONLY Test-E
AI on cycle
PCT of Nolva/Clomid

good luck, and hang around. A lot of good, helpful people here

[gixxerboy1]

first you cant compare others. different people react different. train and eat different. also dosages vary. Also about bloating varies so much. Your speculation is completely wrong.
you will not get better gains from a variety of test. The reason to use test prop is to get gains faster and stop sooner and you can get on pct quicker. But you will loose that by adding in sust. you will still have to wait 18 days to start pct. So you gain nothing but loose that. Or just do sust and inject 2x a week.

[dogtags]

Thank you and the reason I don't want to run Test e/c is because of bloating and I have no problem pinning EOD. So i'll guess i'll run the Prop/sus for 12 weeks though.

You can counter the bloating...and how do you know you have no problem pinning EOD if you have never done it? im more than 1/2 certian you would change your mind on pinning EOD for 12 weeks rather quickly...

[gixxerboy1]

Thank you and the reason I don't want to run Test e/c is because of bloating and I have no problem pinning EOD. So i'll guess i'll run the Prop/sus for 12 weeks though.

bloating can happen with any test. Controlling your diet and estrogen levels help bloating.

[Anabolick]

1. Too Young
2. Too much crap for a first cycle
3.Not educated enough

I could sit here and follow you posts in anticipation of the train wreck you are on, but Ill do you the courtesy. Just read what i have to say, as well as others who will chime in.

-2 Years in the gym doesn't exactly get you away from being a "gym newbie" nor does it constitute a higher dosage and/or using more than one type of steroid for your first cycle.

-You are young, why not just wait? Seriously, when i was 22 i was still trying to screw holes in my sheets, use what natty test you are still producing to your advantage, don't possibly ruin it by overdoing a first cycle.

-Read the stickies...Seriously, read the stickies. There is so much info in there it will blow your mind. I know you will have some general questions, but basically everything you are trying to do is covered in the stickies, and the answer for all of them is "NO".

But, if you insist on ignoring everything above, as well as the suggestions of other members do this:

12 week cycle
300-400mg of ONLY Test-E
AI on cycle
PCT of Nolva/Clomid

good luck, and hang around. A lot of good, helpful people here

Your post doesnt make any sense. Sus and prop may be 2 different compounds but they're still just test but it'll be injected EOD. Its not much different then running a Test e/c cycle because I'll still be injecting around 500mg of test per week.

Also, my test levels are fine. You do not need low test levels as an excuse to run steroids, I'm choosing to inject because its much faster then natural training at the point and I rather have my goal physique before I turn 25.

Also what makes you say I'm not educated enough?

bloating can happen with any test. Controlling your diet and estrogen levels help bloating.

You can counter the bloating...and how do you know you have no problem pinning EOD if you have never done it? im more than 1/2 certian you would change your mind on pinning EOD for 12 weeks rather quickly...

I am aware bloating may happen with every test but it seems to be less common with Prop. Less bloat the better and thats what Prop is known for. I will still be running AI to limit estrogen/bloating.

And regarding the EOD injections, good point, but who knows...we'll see.

[Anabolick]

Also, would someone please answer these 2 questions:


Can I blend my Prop/Sus simply by mixing it or should I order the blend?

and

Is Clomid/Nolvadex fine for my PCT?

[Anabolick]

first you cant compare others. different people react different. train and eat different. also dosages vary. Also about bloating varies so much. Your speculation is completely wrong.
you will not get better gains from a variety of test. The reason to use test prop is to get gains faster and stop sooner and you can get on pct quicker. But you will loose that by adding in sust. you will still have to wait 18 days to start pct. So you gain nothing but loose that. Or just do sust and inject 2x a week.

However, thinking about it, would you recommend replacing Sus with Deca or Eq?

[gixxerboy1]

You are basing it off an opinion that running different tests will not improve gains because I have seen experienced members argue otherwise.

And the reason I'm choosing to run Prop is its more potent and I'll start seeing gains quicker compared to running test e/c for ages and not seeing noticeable change until 6-7th week. I still don't see the problem with including a short and long ester with my stack.

its not necessarily a problem. you are gaining nothing by doing it. But still have to wait a while after cycle to start pct. You are better off just using prop. You are gaining nothing by adding in the sust.

and show me an experienced member that thinks gains will be better by running different test compared to 1 ester.

[dogtags]

I never said anything about low test levels. also, the numbers you posted above at a 200mg mix EOD equates to 800mg a week, far from 500mg.

And why start with 500mg? There is plenty out here that shows you will make the same gains with a lower mg such as 300/wk for your first time using it.

IMO, and maybe others i think you are rushing it. And despite other more knowledgeable members here trying to deter you from this path you are going to do it anyways despite the possible consequences...but since you seem hell bent on going against others information i will answer your questions.

Yes mixing fine.

and for PCT nolva/clomid is fine, I would also reccomend "200mg per week testosterone cypionate . Run that for about 2600 weeks or until death."


You also need a AI on cycle..

[Anabolick]

its not necessarily a problem. you are gaining nothing by doing it. But still have to wait a while after cycle to start pct. You are better off just using prop. You are gaining nothing by adding in the sust.

and show me an experienced member that thinks gains will be better by running different test compared to 1 ester.

Alright point taken. Now be honest, will I be fine just taking a simple Prop + deca/eq or should I just do prop. If my #1 focus is lean mass and staying relatively dry. I know the default answer on this forum is always just run test alone...

I never said anything about low test levels. also, the numbers you posted above at a 200mg mix EOD equates to 800mg a week, far from 500mg.

And why start with 500mg? There is plenty out here that shows you will make the same gains with a lower mg such as 300/wk for your first time using it.

IMO, and maybe others i think you are rushing it. And despite other more knowledgeable members here trying to deter you from this path you are going to do it anyways despite the possible consequences...but since you seem hell bent on going against others information i will answer your questions.

Yes mixing fine.

and for PCT nolva/clomid is fine, I would also reccomend "200mg per week testosterone cypionate . Run that for about 2600 weeks or until death."


You also need a AI on cycle..

Alright. i guess you're right. its foolish to start off at a high dosage and I can always up it during cycle. And I'll have a-dex on cycle unless someone has a better suggestion. And I don't see why you're so edgy about this. I know teenagers who have cycled, who are off cycle now , and look ridiculous all because they didn't buy into this "cycle before you're 25 and you're f**ked" mentality.

[gixxerboy1]

the default answer is that for a reason
eq is complete crap. I wouldnt use it again if it was given to me for free
deca isnt the best idea if your trying to stay dry.
and will you be fine? Nobody know. you never ran anything before. My boy can just look at deca and gets gyno. I can run it any dose and never have any issue what so ever. There is a reason for the default answer. Your better off focus more on diet then more drugs.

[dogtags]

Alright point taken. Now be honest, will I be fine just taking a simple Prop + deca/eq or should I just do prop. If my #1 focus is lean mass and staying relatively dry. I know the default answer on this forum is always just run test alone...




Alright. i guess you're right. its foolish to start off at a high dosage and I can always up it during cycle. And I'll have a-dex on cycle unless someone has a better suggestion. And I don't see why you're so edgy about this. I know teenagers who have cycled, who are off cycle now , and look ridiculous all because they didn't buy into this "cycle before you're 25 and you're f**ked" mentality.

Not really edgy, just not in a hurry to see someone messed up is all. You have all the time in the world, why just not see how your body responds to something and start simple? Its not so much that you are ****ed mentally for life if you mess up. There are just so many risks involved, but mostly all can be avoided with good judgement and proper education and post of all, patience.

[Anabolick]

I'm not worried about gyno and side effects because I'll have the tools to deal with it. If that doesn't work, i'll discontinue use.

Now if I were going for MAXIMUM gains this cycle, what would be better, test alone or test with deca? This site says I'll gain 20 lbs with test alone my first cycle, is that an over exaggeration? Why wouldn't deca add more mass for me?

And I have been counting macros since the first week I started lifting.

Not really edgy, just not in a hurry to see someone messed up is all. You have all the time in the world, why just not see how your body responds to something and start simple? Its not so much that you are ****ed mentally for life if you mess up. There are just so many risks involved, but mostly all can be avoided with good judgement and proper education and post of all, patience.

noted, I am now considering running a single ester test (with d bol) as a first cycle...however I am perfectly healthy and have had blood work done. If there is a better FIRST cycle, I want to do it.

[gixxerboy1]

^^^ and this show how uneducated you are.
Not worried about sides or gyno, Its not as easy as discontinuing use and everything is fine. Just cause you have a-dex on hand doesnt mean anything. It doesnt help for alot of people if they are sensitive. Some need stronger meds
there is no way to determine what anyone will gain on a cycle. Everyone responds different. training and diet matter most.
If you honestly believe you can can more then 20lbs of muscle in a cycle your wrong.
and if you been counting macros and know how to diet as good as you think you do you would be better then 6'1 195lb and 14%
your own arrogance is going to be your worst enemy.

[dogtags]

I'm not worried about gyno and side effects because I'll have the tools to deal with it. If that doesn't work, i'll discontinue use.

Now if I were going for MAXIMUM gains this cycle, what would be better, test alone or test with deca? This site says I'll gain 20 lbs with test alone my first cycle, is that an over exaggeration? Why wouldn't deca add more mass for me?

And I have been counting macros since the first week I started lifting.



noted, I am now considering running a single ester test (with d bol) as a first cycle...however I am perfectly healthy and have had blood work done. If there is a better FIRST cycle, I want to do it.

I will still going against you using something else with the test like deca or d-bol. If you insist you can find more info on it around the forums. (how much to use, how many weeks, when to take it etc).

You will make tremendous gains from the test alone with a 12 week cycle and proper diet. 20 lbs isnt VERY possible. I would suggest just staying with only test, at a MAX of 500mg/wk (im serious you can do 300 for your first time and prob not notice a difference). And going over to the diet forums and posting your macros, and the workout forums and post your planned routine

[dogtags]

^^^ and this show how uneducated you are.
Not worried about sides or gyno, Its not as easy as discontinuing use and everything is fine. Just cause you have a-dex on hand doesnt mean anything. It doesnt help for alot of people if they are sensitive. Some need stronger meds
there is no way to determine what anyone will gain on a cycle. Everyone responds different. training and diet matter most.
If you honestly believe you can can more then 20lbs of muscle in a cycle your wrong.
and if you been counting macros and know how to diet as good as you think you do you would be better then 6'1 195lb and 14%
your own arrogance is going to be your worst enemy.

I was going to let people at the diet section cover his counting macros and questionable stats..

[Anabolick]

I will still going against you using something else with the test like deca or d-bol. If you insist you can find more info on it around the forums. (how much to use, how many weeks, when to take it etc).

You will make tremendous gains from the test alone with a 12 week cycle and proper diet. 20 lbs isnt VERY possible. I would suggest just staying with only test, at a MAX of 500mg/wk (im serious you can do 300 for your first time and prob not notice a difference). And going over to the diet forums and posting your macros, and the workout forums and post your planned routine

I'll by following the "Novice Steroid Cycles II" stack on this website so I assume it'll be safe and accurate.

[gixxerboy1]

I'll by following the "Novice Steroid Cycles II" stack on this website so I assume it'll be safe and accurate.

those things are old as hell, nothing i would use as a guide. And safe for 1 may not be for another. Again your not seeing the big picture. And even if you could put on 20lbs. Do you really think that in itself is healthy in 8 weeks

[Anabolick]

those things are old as hell, nothing i would use as a guide. And safe for 1 may not be for another. Again your not seeing the big picture. And even if you could put on 20lbs. Do you really think that in itself is healthy in 8 weeks

Alright. I'll admit my impatience. I now intend to take test alone for my first cycle.

I'm going to dose it at 300-400 mg per week. Starting at 300 and increasing dose if I feel the need to.

Do I still need A-dex for this or can I just use nolvadex?

And could you or someone please give some dosing info for clomid. If this site really is old and inaccurate, I don't feel comfortable following it's guidelines anymore. Would 50 mg clomid everyday for PCT be enough for a single compound?

[gixxerboy1]

dont use the main page. The forums are good. just check out the pct section of the board.
yes i would still use adex, just at a lower dose