Gaining bodyfat on tren+t3

[BBJT200]

So I'm currently in week 3.5 of a cycle.

200mcg t3 daily.
Started tren @ 75mg ED, Lowered 4 days ago to 50mg Ed due to sides
100mg test e/wk [trt]

I was running 250mcg t3 for a while, ran out, and ordered another bottle. Lowered to 200mcg.
When I started this new bottle, I started getting heart palpitations and over the last week I have visibly lost muscle mass and gained bodyfat.
this isn't just a little bit, this is like going from 11% body fat to 14-15% body fat in seven days. I haven't had the most perfect diet, but definitely not bad enough to cause a change like that.

I'm thinking maybe my new bottle of t3 is extremely overdosed. The heart palpitations stopped when I used 5g of carnitine, indicating that it was due to excessive t3 levels.

I was thinking about dropping my tren altogether as maybe it was bunk and going to prop/var, but I thought to myself..
I've got all of the tren sides. Sweats, drenched at night, mild insomnia, paranoia and irritability, etc. sore nipples, I think my caber is bunk. Switching to prami

Anyone have any thoughts?



I was originally going to use this as a cutter, but now that I have shrunk so much it's going to have to be a recomp.
Proposed adjustments:
Test E 100mg/wk trt dose
Test prop 100mg EOD
Tren Ace 50mg ED
Var 100mg/day
T3 40mcg/day (once i sort out the dosing issue)

Cost is not an issue here, so if adding in var gives me an extra 5% results, it's worth it to me.

Thoughts?

[Lunk1]

Maybe consider dropping the T3 and concentrating on the AAS cycle and diet! What is your AI and dose??

[BBJT200]

You don't need an AI on 100mg of test per week. So...none.
I tried using a tiny dose, say around 5mg of exemestane for a few days and it crashed my estrogen. Felt like absolute shit for a few days afterwards.
*until I got stressed out and my e2 levels skyrocketed*

I just diluted the t3 to "1/4 concentration" and am going to see how things go from there, as well as contact ARR about the batch.
Overdosed product is just as bad as under dosed. :[

Definitely refocusing on the diet. Had some untimely work/school issues take up a ton of my time, killing my ability to maintain a decent diet.
The t3 was more of an experiment for some rapid fat loss.

[Lunk1]

Sorry...I missed the test dose! You are quite right but to say you DON'T need isn't neccessarily correct! Everyones body converts at a different rate. MOST will not need an AI at those doses but SOME still do even on TRT! If your having some symptoms of high E2 you may consider a small dose!

I just ordered T3 from ARR yesterday myself.

[largerthannormal]

i would consider an AI... soar nips.... prolly high E2.

[BBJT200]

Using an AI crashes me, even in a very small dose.
The sore nips is prolactin; I switched to prami and it's slowly going away

[BBJT200]

I was more looking for any thoughts on if my tren is bad, or if my t3 is overdosed.
My understanding was that a decent dose of anabolics will counteract the catabolic effect of t3, regardless of the dose.

[Lunk1]

I was more looking for any thoughts on if my tren is bad, or if my t3 is overdosed.
My understanding was that a decent dose of anabolics will counteract the catabolic effect of t3, regardless of the dose.

It sounds as if your trean is good based on the sides you have described! Your issue doesnt sound like a muscle loss issue from the T3...you talking about gaining BF! This is most likely 100% diet related although it is possible your maintaining some water from not using a small dose of an AI! Only you can know if this is water or true BF

[fit2bOld]

I need an AI at a low dose so OP you are wrong. Sore nips is prolactin usually fueled by high estrogen. More than likely in your case its the Tren. This need to be addressed. Lose the T3 and get your sides under control. Or your headed to a gyno thread next.

[BBJT200]

I've got a certain level of estrogen fluctuation based on stress.
Using an AI at this dose will crash me until I go through something stressful, then I bloat right back up.

Look up adrenal fatigue. In the later stages, your body stops being able to produce enough cortisol. When this happens, it produces estrogen instead. Using an AI has absolutely no effect on this.

I've been on a mild dose (30-60mcg/day) t3 since June of 2012. If I just cut the t3 right now, I'm just going to get fatter over the next two weeks while my thyroid gland kicks back into normal function. I've gotta trim back down before I even consider doing that.

[trackstar19]

I've got a certain level of estrogen fluctuation based on stress.
Using an AI at this dose will crash me until I go through something stressful, then I bloat right back up.

Look up adrenal fatigue. In the later stages, your body stops being able to produce enough cortisol. When this happens, it produces estrogen instead. Using an AI has absolutely no effect on this.

I've been on a mild dose (30-60mcg/day) t3 since June of 2012. If I just cut the t3 right now, I'm just going to get fatter over the next two weeks while my thyroid gland kicks back into normal function. I've gotta trim back down before I even consider doing that.

T3 at the doses in OP are ridiculous bro, definitely cut that out. Also, don't use research chem companies t3... t3 is not stable in liquid form. (I made that mistake my first 1.5 years of using t3 off and on) - You never know how much you are really getting in each squirt. And your thyroid is NOT something you want to play around with. Now when prepping I only use human grade t3... so much easier to monitor results at specific doses, and to stay consistent.

At 200+ mcg of t3 i'd imagine you'd lose muscle mass even while on cycle, that isn't surprising. Coupled with a subpar diet and gaining bodyfat isn't overly surprising, either. I know you said school/work made it impossible to maintain a clean diet - i see that as purely an excuse. Regardless of how busy I am it is still easy enough to eat clean. Always. If you want something you'll do what it takes. I'd suggest getting some HG t3 - then run it at like 75mcg and enjoy.

Edit: Also, don't use t3 as an excuse to eat less clean. Use it as a tool to help you with your gains, but not as a way to be lazier. You'll get much more out of it if you are strict while using it. The high doses of t3 likely have you constantly starving and thus eating garbage food... if you drop it down then your hunger level should drop, too... thus typically making it easier to eat healthy. (Assuming you have some will power).

[BBJT200]

T3 at the doses in OP are ridiculous bro, definitely cut that out. Also, don't use research chem companies t3... t3 is not stable in liquid form. (I made that mistake my first 1.5 years of using t3 off and on) - You never know how much you are really getting in each squirt. And your thyroid is NOT something you want to play around with. Now when prepping I only use human grade t3... so much easier to monitor results at specific doses, and to stay consistent.

At 200+ mcg of t3 i'd imagine you'd lose muscle mass even while on cycle, that isn't surprising. Coupled with a subpar diet and gaining bodyfat isn't overly surprising, either. I know you said school/work made it impossible to maintain a clean diet - i see that as purely an excuse. Regardless of how busy I am it is still easy enough to eat clean. Always. If you want something you'll do what it takes. I'd suggest getting some HG t3 - then run it at like 75mcg and enjoy.

Edit: Also, don't use t3 as an excuse to eat less clean. Use it as a tool to help you with your gains, but not as a way to be lazier. You'll get much more out of it if you are strict while using it. The high doses of t3 likely have you constantly starving and thus eating garbage food... if you drop it down then your hunger level should drop, too... thus typically making it easier to eat healthy. (Assuming you have some will power).

Thank you for the advice. I will be getting my hands on powder t3 and will be making my own very shortly.
Atonimi and I had been discussing the use of high doses of t3 two weeks ago or so, and at the time things seemed to be going very well. Now that I'm into a different bottle...well...things are not going so well.

You're right--it does have me absolutely starving. By the time my second dose of adderall wears off (legitimate adhd), I'm so hungry it's nearly impossible not to eat crap food.
I'll drop my dose down considerably and see how things go. Thanks!

[BBJT200]

For someone that it is literally impossible to keep estrogen levels low/stable, would you say tren is fairly useless from a cutting standpoint?
My understanding of tren's mechanisms is that if you keep an extremely low fat diet and estrogen levels consistently low, any excess carbs are just burned off as bodyheat.

Based on the fact that any time I go through stress and don't immediately dose hydrocortisone I will blow up with e2, I'm thinking I would be better off running a Test/Var cycle w\ just a little tren for its anabolic properties.
(last week I missed my flight at the airport by about ten minutes; within an hour, I had half inch indents in my ankles from water retention. this slowly faded over the next few days and anti estrogens do nothing to help)

For example, changing my cycle from
50mg tren ED (350mg/wk)
100mg test E/wk

to

200mg prop EoD
50mg Tren EoD
100mg var ED
75mcg t3 daily (once I get my dosing sorted out)

I'm thinking that ^ would give me more benefit at this point after shrinking so much. No?

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

250mcg of T3 a day is outrageous. It's probably going to take some time for your thyroid to get back in normal ranges.

I had perfectly good results with T3 ranges of 50-75mcg daily, and would never exceed 100mcg a day. Whether you are on cycle or not. I'm shocked you were using 250mcg a day lol.

Your diet needs to be fixed and squared away no matter what is going on. Diet should be stapled down to perfection before anybody even gets into AAS.

[BBJT200]

It takes roughly 2 weeks for the thyroid to go back to normal ranges. It's not dose-dependent. Well...maybe a little longer for high doses as the drug has to clear your system, but not a significant difference

And my diet is stapled down. Life happens sometimes, and there's nothing you can do.

[ChiveOn]

I've never really seen anyone over 150mcg/day of T3. That's probably your issue

[BBJT200]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UTZ61Ffp-kM

[redz]

I`m at 120mcg of ar's T3 right now and I`m also on week 3 of test/tren and I`m leaning out nicely. Not sure I'd venture too much higher with the T3 sleeping is already and issue but I`m not sure whether its the tren or the T3 keeping me awake.

[jasc]

Just a thought.. Maybe your old T3 was under-dosed and that's why you were good on 200mcg. Yet at 200mcg from the new bottle (dosed properly) you had issues.

200mcg is crazy.. If I break 100 I have issues

[trackstar19]

Thank you for the advice. I will be getting my hands on powder t3 and will be making my own very shortly.
Atonimi and I had been discussing the use of high doses of t3 two weeks ago or so, and at the time things seemed to be going very well. Now that I'm into a different bottle...well...things are not going so well.

You're right--it does have me absolutely starving. By the time my second dose of adderall wears off (legitimate adhd), I'm so hungry it's nearly impossible not to eat crap food.
I'll drop my dose down considerably and see how things go. Thanks!

Trust me man, I went thru the same thing before with the research chem t3. The batches and liquid all seemed so inconsistent in its doses, even after shaking religiously. So I had to up the amount to get the same effects, but then some days the upped amount would be higher dosed than others, etc. It was a giant mess. You don't want to put your thyroid/body thru that. Those are extremely high doses, i know they say your thyroid usually begins to bounce back within 2 weeks once you cease use (regardless of duration)... but keep in mind that is when it STARTS to bounce back. It can sometimes take 2-3 months to fully bounce back. And i'd personally say I feel like such high doses does make it harder if you cut cold turkey it'll take longer to bounce back, that is entirely off of my past experience, though. I'd HIGHLY recommend getting human grade t3 tabs.

How do you plan on accurately dosing t3 powder? It's dosed by the microgram... the slightest error and you'll be overdosing or under dosing drastically. And I'd imagine you'd be making that in liquid form... it is NOT stable in liquid form. Do yourself a favor... get human grade t3. It's cheap as shit bro, not worth ****ing around with your thyroid. Then hop on like 75mcg a day and see how that feels. Your hunger levels should go WAY down (especially while on tren)... and you should start to finally grow like a weed while staying lean. I wish I never messed around with t3 since the liquid shit put my body thru hell with inaccurate dosing/etc. Getting human grade stuff was the smartest thing I ever did. I'm not about to post a source on here since i'm sure that isn't allowed... but it's EXTREMELY easy to find human grade t3 tablets.

Once you do that, fix your diet (will be easy once the insane hunger is gone)... and start finally getting some insane progress.

I don't quite understand your issue with tren, though? Tren doesn't raise e2 levels. It effects prolactin levels... so i personally take .5mg of caber 2x a week for that. It shouldn't elevate your e2 whatsoever as far as i'm aware. Sounds like you have some stuff you need to sort out with your body to get back on the right track man. good luck

[Perseverance1]

And I thought I was pushing the limit on 120mg/day.....goddamn why on earth would you do more than double that lol? Pretty sure even DNP is a better option than 250mg of T3 while eating crap food.

[BBJT200]

Trust me man, I went thru the same thing before with the research chem t3. The batches and liquid all seemed so inconsistent in its doses, even after shaking religiously. So I had to up the amount to get the same effects, but then some days the upped amount would be higher dosed than others, etc. It was a giant mess. You don't want to put your thyroid/body thru that. Those are extremely high doses, i know they say your thyroid usually begins to bounce back within 2 weeks once you cease use (regardless of duration)... but keep in mind that is when it STARTS to bounce back. It can sometimes take 2-3 months to fully bounce back. And i'd personally say I feel like such high doses does make it harder if you cut cold turkey it'll take longer to bounce back, that is entirely off of my past experience, though. I'd HIGHLY recommend getting human grade t3 tabs.

How do you plan on accurately dosing t3 powder? It's dosed by the microgram... the slightest error and you'll be overdosing or under dosing drastically. And I'd imagine you'd be making that in liquid form... it is NOT stable in liquid form. Do yourself a favor... get human grade t3. It's cheap as shit bro, not worth ****ing around with your thyroid. Then hop on like 75mcg a day and see how that feels. Your hunger levels should go WAY down (especially while on tren)... and you should start to finally grow like a weed while staying lean. I wish I never messed around with t3 since the liquid shit put my body thru hell with inaccurate dosing/etc. Getting human grade stuff was the smartest thing I ever did. I'm not about to post a source on here since i'm sure that isn't allowed... but it's EXTREMELY easy to find human grade t3 tablets.

Once you do that, fix your diet (will be easy once the insane hunger is gone)... and start finally getting some insane progress.

I don't quite understand your issue with tren, though? Tren doesn't raise e2 levels. It effects prolactin levels... so i personally take .5mg of caber 2x a week for that. It shouldn't elevate your e2 whatsoever as far as i'm aware. Sounds like you have some stuff you need to sort out with your body to get back on the right track man. good luck

Agreed...once the insane hunger goes away it will be a lot easier to fix my diet. I also feel like this high dose of t3 is making my ADHD much much much much worse than normal.
I'll look around the HG tabs. But basically, I planned on making a big batch of powder/filler mix, and making caps.

@25mcg
100mg = 4000 caps.
50mg = 2000 caps
25mg=1000caps

I probably wouldn't cap them all at once...maybe if I am incredibly bored, but I'd likely leave the majority of the mix in a bag for later use and cap what I need for a few months.


Also was going to try making a liquid--At least when I make it, it will ALL be the same dose.

@Jasc--
You might be very right. The bottle of T3 that I just finished was around 5 months old...maybe it degrades in solution. Who knows.
Perhaps Atonimi, the person who inspired me to try high doses, also has an underdosed bottle.

[austinite]

What really determines fat gains/loss? You're eating too much.

[trackstar19]

Agreed...once the insane hunger goes away it will be a lot easier to fix my diet. I also feel like this high dose of t3 is making my ADHD much much much much worse than normal.
I'll look around the HG tabs. But basically, I planned on making a big batch of powder/filler mix, and making caps.

@25mcg
100mg = 4000 caps.
50mg = 2000 caps
25mg=1000caps

I probably wouldn't cap them all at once...maybe if I am incredibly bored, but I'd likely leave the majority of the mix in a bag for later use and cap what I need for a few months.


Also was going to try making a liquid--At least when I make it, it will ALL be the same dose.

@Jasc--
You might be very right. The bottle of T3 that I just finished was around 5 months old...maybe it degrades in solution. Who knows.
Perhaps Atonimi, the person who inspired me to try high doses, also has an underdosed bottle.

I'd recommend against capping your own... i've capped plenty of orals but i would never even attempt to cap something at such a low dose. Even the bag mixing trick won't be accurate, i assure that. Too much chance of error in such a small amount. Get the human grade stuff. It's very easy to find. Other popular boards have sponsors that sell it.

[BBJT200]

What really determines fat gains/loss? You're eating too much.

I've watched my arms shrink 1-2", my chest has lost serious size...my legs are visibly smaller.
It appears as though i've dropped somewhere around 10lbs of muscle. Possibly some of it is glycogen depletion, but it looks to be more than that.

I went from having abs and a V to a roll in 7 days.
If I was eating too much I would not be shrinking and getting fatter at the same time.
The issue is an overdose of t3, that's been determined already.

[austinite]

I've watched my arms shrink 1-2", my chest has lost serious size...my legs are visibly smaller.
It appears as though i've dropped somewhere around 10lbs of muscle. Possibly some of it is glycogen depletion, but it looks to be more than that.

I went from having abs and a V to a roll in 7 days.
If I was eating too much I would not be shrinking and getting fatter at the same time.
The issue is an overdose of t3, that's been determined already.

Whats your batch number?

[songdog]

20yrs old and running tren! Not a good thing bro.

[BBJT200]

20yrs old and running tren! Not a good thing bro.

I'm on TRT due to physical trauma to my testes.
They're dead, there's no point in waiting.

[BBJT200]

whats your batch number?

ls1161301

[austinite]

Same batch I'm using. Nothing is wrong with it. You need to look elsewhere for the issue. And stop taking such high doses. No need for that. I consider myself an aggressive user, and I stay at 140mcg max.

[BBJT200]

Same batch I'm using. Nothing is wrong with it. You need to look elsewhere for the issue. And stop taking such high doses. No need for that. I consider myself an aggressive user, and I stay at 140mcg max.

Then I'm going to assume my last two bottles were old/underdosed or something of that nature.
Definitely going to be using lower doses from now on. The only reason I was using them was because of atonimi's thread and my curious nature.

Clearly though, an extremely high dose of t3 combined with a short term high junk carb/whey protein diet fueled the muscle loss/fat gain.
Lesson learned. I am glad to hear though that that batch is good.

[redz]

More is not always better, I think this is the case here. Gotta find the sweet spot.

[BBJT200]

More is not always better, I think this is the case here. Gotta find the sweet spot.

No argument there. It's depressing as hell to watch your body deteriorate like this. I've got 2 more days until I'm in the 50mcg range active in my bloodstream...just gotta try to minimize loss between now and then.

[calstate23]

So I'm currently in week 3.5 of a cycle.

200mcg t3 daily.
Started tren @ 75mg ED, Lowered 4 days ago to 50mg Ed due to sides
100mg test e/wk [trt]

I was running 250mcg t3 for a while, ran out, and ordered another bottle. Lowered to 200mcg.
When I started this new bottle, I started getting heart palpitations and over the last week I have visibly lost muscle mass and gained bodyfat.
this isn't just a little bit, this is like going from 11% body fat to 14-15% body fat in seven days. I haven't had the most perfect diet, but definitely not bad enough to cause a change like that.

I'm thinking maybe my new bottle of t3 is extremely overdosed. The heart palpitations stopped when I used 5g of carnitine, indicating that it was due to excessive t3 levels.

I was thinking about dropping my tren altogether as maybe it was bunk and going to prop/var, but I thought to myself..
I've got all of the tren sides. Sweats, drenched at night, mild insomnia, paranoia and irritability, etc. sore nipples, I think my caber is bunk. Switching to prami

Anyone have any thoughts?



I was originally going to use this as a cutter, but now that I have shrunk so much it's going to have to be a recomp.
Proposed adjustments:
Test E 100mg/wk trt dose
Test prop 100mg EOD
Tren Ace 50mg ED
Var 100mg/day
T3 40mcg/day (once i sort out the dosing issue)

Cost is not an issue here, so if adding in var gives me an extra 5% results, it's worth it to me.

Thoughts?

I would assume this is the thyroid medication...I am not really a supporter of t3/t4 UNLESS using high dose phram gh and looking for a pro card in the near future....

What does muscle loss and increase bodyfat % relate to? MAJOR caloric deficit! And why do you have MAJOR caloric deficit? Most likely because of your T3...

Fist off, your dose is high...Secondly, most people don't think anything about T3/T4 as if it's just a walk in the park and can't be dangerous....It can be dangerous 100% ESPECIALLY when you have BUNK product...You NEED TO KNOW 100% your T3/T4 is LEGIT..WHY?

A great example some of you may remember is LUKE WOOD..Luke Wood got a hold of some bunk T3/T4 and was taking 1,000 times the normal dose...It ate him away like termites on wood...It killed him in his show and ALMOST EVEN KILLED HIM! In fact, I'm sure the extreme dose played a role when he finally died a few years later...

Do you find yourself exhausted? Hot? Sweating? Breathing hard? Again, probably from the T3...

This is why people don't look at it as a serious drug but it can be and it can also cost you your life with BUNK product!

If someones T3/T4 is overdosed like LUKE WOOD'S you can sit in McDonald's all day long eating double cheeseburgers and you will wither away....

And you have to realize most pro's using thyroid medication are experienced and are on the whole COCKTAIL of HORMONES which makes it work together harmoniously....

YOU ARE NOT EVEN ON GH, why are you taking thyroid medication and at such a high dose?

Keep in mind people, not only can it be dangerous with bunk product but you are also F*cking with a very important part of your body which is your METABOLISM....

When you take T3, ESPECIALLY when you don't need it or on HIGH DOSE GH, you also risk suppressing your natural T4 production, which is what is eventually converted to your active T3..

So you run a VERY HIGH risk at suppressing that and fu*king with your thyroid PERMANENTLY

[austinite]

^ what? T3 is dangerous especially if it's bunk? Wouldn't that apply to anything? T3 is not dangerous, not even remotely close. The symptoms you mention above are not those of T3. Thyroid will be back faster than anything else in your body. I don't see a reason to put the fear of god in people regarding T3, it's not that bad.

[redz]

For some reason there is a ton of miss-information floating around about T3 and T4 possibly causing permanent thyroid issues yet no one can identify any of these people.

[songdog]

I'm on TRT due to physical trauma to my testes.
They're dead, there's no point in waiting.

Yeah we get a lot of young guys claiming that now.

[redz]

I'm on TRT due to physical trauma to my testes.
They're dead, there's no point in waiting.

That sucks.....

[calstate23]

^ what? T3 is dangerous especially if it's bunk? Wouldn't that apply to anything? T3 is not dangerous, not even remotely close. The symptoms you mention above are not those of T3. Thyroid will be back faster than anything else in your body. I don't see a reason to put the fear of god in people regarding T3, it's not that bad.

Yes, bunk as in OVERDOSED...Something that probably won't happen to most but it can....Different then injecting overdosed test...Thyroid plays with your metabolic rate and if you are taking 3000 mcg rather then 50 mcg do you realize what that can do?

It will eat you away and also put major stress on the body...

I just see it being pointless because if you are taking it when you don't need it you are MOST LIKELY going to just suppress your natural thyroid...Which in turn will just make it less effective...

Just like insulin, your body will become resistant to EXCESSIVE amount of T3

[warmouth]

^ what? T3 is dangerous especially if it's bunk? Wouldn't that apply to anything? T3 is not dangerous, not even remotely close. The symptoms you mention above are not those of T3. Thyroid will be back faster than anything else in your body. I don't see a reason to put the fear of god in people regarding T3, it's not that bad.

why did I chuckle?