Insulin and fat consumption

[The Titan99]

I wondering about how long BEFORE insulin injections you would want to not consume fats. Seems most fats absorb fairly slowly so there must be some rule here. I like to eat some peanut butter pre workout. Usually training lasts 1:45 minutes and I would take the insulin immediately PWO.

[M302_Imola]

I would say you'll be fine considering you're consuming the pb almost 2 hours prior to your slin shot. My personal rule of thumb is 1.5-2 hrs prior and 3 hrs post slin injection (I pin my Humalog IM so it clears faster). I have to ask though why pb in your preworkout meal? You're using natty pb right?

[kronik420]

how big do you wanna get?

the sun doesn't go down in Thailand, The Titan99 just stands infront of it..lol..

[The Titan99]

I would say you'll be fine considering you're consuming the pb almost 2 hours prior to your slin shot. My personal rule of thumb is 1.5-2 hrs prior and 3 hrs post slin injection (I pin my Humalog IM so it clears faster). I have to ask though why pb in your preworkout meal? You're using natty pb right?

Natty peanut butter. The fat helps keep me from wearing out during training. My leg and back workouts go over 2 hours.

how big do you wanna get?

the sun doesn't go down in Thailand, The Titan99 just stands infront of it..lol..

LOL!! I'm aiming for 255 cut so 275 lb would be great before the cut!!

[The Titan99]

So I tried the insulin first time last night. 8 i.u.'s IM. 3 minutes later I drank 55 mg of waxy maize carb mixed with 10 mg of glutamine and 10 mg of creatine. 10 minutes later I had 80 mg of whey protein with water. about a half an hour later I got the very bad insulin feeling of sweating dizziness, confusion etc. I then ate chicken, sweet potatoes which was about 50/50 protein and carbs. Still felt sick so I had another 30 mg of the carb shake. Still felt sick so I ate my girlfriend's chocolate bar. All this happened in about 30 minutes, then it disapated. What do you think I did wrong?

[Granovich]

ur first time running slin was 8 IU ?
i think you should build up your dose up to like 10 iu tops based on your weight ( i think its 1 IU per 10 KG)
so it might be starting that high....
when you feel dizzy just go directly to the chocolate bar LOL... get some full sugar soda , it should help

[The Titan99]

ur first time running slin was 8 IU ?
i think you should build up your dose up to like 10 iu tops based on your weight ( i think its 1 IU per 10 KG)
so it might be starting that high....
when you feel dizzy just go directly to the chocolate bar LOL... get some full sugar soda , it should help

I weight 120 kg but I was thinking the same thing. Where do you think I should start 4 or 6 maybe? Feels weird eating chocolate and slamming coke at night before bed!! LOL!! I'm pretty strict on my diet and that's usually counter productive to say the least. I do understand what it's for though and I will buy a six pack of coke and keep it in the fridge.

[Turkish Juicer]

So I tried the insulin first time last night. 8 i.u.'s IM. 3 minutes later I drank 55 mg of waxy maize carb mixed with 10 mg of glutamine and 10 mg of creatine. 10 minutes later I had 80 mg of whey protein with water. about a half an hour later I got the very bad insulin feeling of sweating dizziness, confusion etc. I then ate chicken, sweet potatoes which was about 50/50 protein and carbs. Still felt sick so I had another 30 mg of the carb shake. Still felt sick so I ate my girlfriend's chocolate bar. All this happened in about 30 minutes, then it disapated. What do you think I did wrong?

This is exactly why I stay away from slin, feeling of sickness and developing of chaotic eating habits during the post-injection phase makes it very unappealing to me...

[M302_Imola]

So I tried the insulin first time last night. 8 i.u.'s IM. 3 minutes later I drank 55 mg of waxy maize carb mixed with 10 mg of glutamine and 10 mg of creatine. 10 minutes later I had 80 mg of whey protein with water. about a half an hour later I got the very bad insulin feeling of sweating dizziness, confusion etc. I then ate chicken, sweet potatoes which was about 50/50 protein and carbs. Still felt sick so I had another 30 mg of the carb shake. Still felt sick so I ate my girlfriend's chocolate bar. All this happened in about 30 minutes, then it disapated. What do you think I did wrong?

A couple things here: you started alittle high on your dosage and to be honest I wouldn't recommend running slin IM on your first go...better to pin subq as it will be a slower release. Once you get use to it then you can move to IM. Also, IMO wazy maize is a poor carb choice when using slin as I've read about it having little impact on blood sugar levels. Invest in some dextrose (which is not expensive at all). Dextrose + whey + creatine is my formula when using slin...obviously adjust amounts accordingly. Also, Titan please invest in a bg meter. You should be monitoring fasted bg levels anyway to make sure you're not building up insulin resistance.

[Granovich]

I weight 120 kg but I was thinking the same thing. Where do you think I should start 4 or 6 maybe? Feels weird eating chocolate and slamming coke at night before bed!! LOL!! I'm pretty strict on my diet and that's usually counter productive to say the least. I do understand what it's for though and I will buy a six pack of coke and keep it in the fridge.

I would PM M302_Imola and ask him for all details. he is very knowledgeable with Slin and he taught me alot
only reason im not running it now while im bulking is cuz i workout late and i sleep an hr after workout so it would be really bad idea to shoot Slin then do the shakes and meal and then eat. cuz it peaks in 2 or 3 hrs and you need to be awake , some people died in their sleep cuz of that hypoglycemia or something ( cant remember the exact name )
so start low.. a friend of mine started at 1 Iu and increased dose every few days until he reached 10 IU. as for dextrose i think rule of thumb is 7-10g per IU you take...you might want to start with 10 g per IU and then lower it to 7-8g but dont go less...
Keep those small sugar packs with u and coke at all times. shit is dangerous but very effective. cant wait to run it, if i ever get to workout earlier in the day somehow change my work schedule

[briansvk]

I was running slin during very hard diet (week in between shows). 10IU pinned right PWO (morning). I was trying how low can I go with sugars. Despite this I have never had hypo. After slin shot I drank 40g carbs (vitargo or maltodextrin - tryed both with very or none difference), 50g hydrolyzed whey isolate, 10g creatine, 10g BCAA, 10g glutamine. Another 30 mins later another 40g carbs (complex - potatoes or rice) with lean chicken breast with salt only or 10 egg whites. Another 10IU and everything exactly as described was used PWO in the evening. Another meals was without carbs, just lean meat with veggies.

Speaking of fat consumption: I used oatmeal as carbs PWO few times. Than I noticed that it has some fat in it like 5 or 7g/100g. As long as I was consuming only 40g carbs from it which means about 60g of oatmeal, it is around 2-4g fats, so... I stopped worrying about it anymore. It is so few, it doesn't matter at all. I think it is not a big thing to be concerned about, if we are speaking about numbers up to 10-15g of fats. God, think about it... 15g! That is nothing at all!

I know a guy who pins 10IU PWO, and starts eating... But he eats everything he sees... Last time I saw him eating chocolate cheerios from 750g bag (he ate more than half of this bag) and drinking some mass gainer with it. He ate maybe 100-200g fast carbs with 50+ g of fats from chocolate or another sweets and of course some protein, creatine and glutamine... Well yes he is gaining some fat, but not as much as he should according to gossips about fat post slin injection. Not by a long shot. So few g of fats in slin window is not as big problem as some guys think.

[Granovich]

I was running slin during very hard diet (week in between shows). 10IU pinned right PWO (morning). I was trying how low can I go with sugars. Despite this I have never had hypo. After slin shot I drank 40g carbs (vitargo or maltodextrin - tryed both with very or none difference), 50g hydrolyzed whey isolate, 10g creatine, 10g BCAA, 10g glutamine. Another 30 mins later another 40g carbs (complex - potatoes or rice) with lean chicken breast with salt only or 10 egg whites. Another 10IU and everything exactly as described was used PWO in the evening. Another meals was without carbs, just lean meat with veggies.

Speaking of fat consumption: I used oatmeal as carbs PWO few times. Than I noticed that it has some fat in it like 5 or 7g/100g. As long as I was consuming only 40g carbs from it which means about 60g of oatmeal, it is around 2-4g fats, so... I stopped worrying about it anymore. It is so few, it doesn't matter at all. I think it is not a big thing to be concerned about, if we are speaking about numbers up to 10-15g of fats. God, think about it... 15g! That is nothing at all!

I know a guy who pins 10IU PWO, and starts eating... But he eats everything he sees... Last time I saw him eating chocolate cheerios from 750g bag (he ate more than half of this bag) and drinking some mass gainer with it. He ate maybe 100-200g fast carbs with 50+ g of fats from chocolate or another sweets and of course some protein, creatine and glutamine... Well yes he is gaining some fat, but not as much as he should according to gossips about fat post slin injection. Not by a long shot. So few g of fats in slin window is not as big problem as some guys think.

thats great post. thank you
just to clarify your routine. you took 10 IU's of slin TWICE a day ?
or only on working out days ?
and what you do on non working out days ??
as for gains. how was it ? im sure you ran it with AAS.no ?

[OnTheSauce]

I took Slin 10iu morning and 10iu post workout. 50gr Carbs within 10min of shot.

[The Titan99]

OK, I cut back to 6 i.u.'s last night, down from 8. Same eating amounts and timing. 50 g of waxy maize, 10 g Creatin, 10 g Glutamine 5 minutes after injection. 80 g whey protein with water 10 minutes after injection and chicken breast/brown rice 50 g/50 g 45 minutes after injection. This time started to get sweaty but not nearly as bad 1 hour after shot as opposed to 30 minutes the night before. Very mild compared to the night before. Had Coke on hand and drank 1 can immediately when symptoms started. Symptoms dissipated but I drank another one anyway, just to make sure. Maybe it's the waxy maize. It states it absorbs 3000 times faster than dextrose so I thought it was basically saying it's a better replacement. Maybe speed of absorption isn't the most important thing? I'm not clear on where to get or what dextrose is exactly. My friend uses this syrupy Thai drink the sell everywhere but he isn't exactly the most informed guy in the world. He says, for instance, he takes insulin for the massive pumps???!!! So you see why I hesitate. I guess I'm wondering what is dextrose exactly, and can I have some? LOL!!!

[OnTheSauce]

I use glycofuse by gaspari

[briansvk]

thats great post. thank you
just to clarify your routine. you took 10 IU's of slin TWICE a day ?
or only on working out days ?
and what you do on non working out days ??
as for gains. how was it ? im sure you ran it with AAS.no ?

Yeah I took 10IU twice a day, both post workout, because I was training twice a day during this period.
I did not take any slin on non workout days, I was just following strict diet and did not want to risk any excessive carbs/fats. I was around 5% BF so the main think I was concerned about was the appearance not numbers. I gained maybe 1-1.5 lbs of muscle while still loosing fat. But this is just a guess because of too much fluctuation caused by carbs intake and water weight. But the important think for me was that energy levels very good and I was looking full, hard, vascular and ripped.
I was running this with TRT test dose, tren, mast and winnie.

[briansvk]

OK, I cut back to 6 i.u.'s last night, down from 8. Same eating amounts and timing. 50 g of waxy maize, 10 g Creatin, 10 g Glutamine 5 minutes after injection. 80 g whey protein with water 10 minutes after injection and chicken breast/brown rice 50 g/50 g 45 minutes after injection. This time started to get sweaty but not nearly as bad 1 hour after shot as opposed to 30 minutes the night before. Very mild compared to the night before. Had Coke on hand and drank 1 can immediately when symptoms started. Symptoms dissipated but I drank another one anyway, just to make sure. Maybe it's the waxy maize. It states it absorbs 3000 times faster than dextrose so I thought it was basically saying it's a better replacement. Maybe speed of absorption isn't the most important thing? I'm not clear on where to get or what dextrose is exactly. My friend uses this syrupy Thai drink the sell everywhere but he isn't exactly the most informed guy in the world. He says, for instance, he takes insulin for the massive pumps???!!! So you see why I hesitate. I guess I'm wondering what is dextrose exactly, and can I have some? LOL!!!

Dextrose is simply a form of glucose. Both of them are the same thing, just different name. I dont know what is the main difference between Vitargo and Waxy maize and I have had no problem with hypo feeling after slin shot if vitargo was used, but... This may be caused by many things. Different slin type used (I am using Apidra - absolutely fastest Insulin glulisine), different metabolism and digestion, different insulin response... But I think that clean dextrose or maltodextrin are the best choice with slin. They are both tried and proved working, so why use anything else. And I did not mention price do far, which is, comparing to Vitargo or Waxy maize, very much lower.

I found this article, it should answer all your questions: Bodybuilding.com - The Myth Of Waxy Maize Starch... And The Truth Behind It All!

Important parts:

WMS Summary 1: Blood Sugar And Insulin Were Similar To Slow Starch, But Much Lower Than Dextrose.
The next study examined 24-hour glycogen resynthesis using WMS, maltodextrin, dextrose, or slow starch (6). WMS-induced glycogen storage and subsequent work performance were not different from that of dextrose or maltodextrin consumption. It wasn't all bad news however, as these three carbohydrates yielded improved performance over slow starch.

WMS Summary 3: Blood Glucose Levels Lower Than Maltodextrin And Sucrose.
Far from an isolated incident, a brand new study sought to specifically investigate the glycemic response of WMS ingestion compared to both maltodextrin with a small amount of sucrose, and white bread (10).
Interestingly, the resulting blood glucose response of WMS was similar to that of bread! As you'd expect, this was quite a bit lower than the fast carb mix of maltodextrin + sucrose. Additionally, the insulin response was significantly lower for WMS even compared to the bread treatment (and of course much lower than maltodextrin).

WMS Summary 4: Blood Glucose Similar To, And Insulin Lower Than, White Bread.
A final study compared the glycemic response of 25g WMS that was cooked with water into a paste, to that of the same amount of glucose (5). This study is different from the previous WMS studies that used uncooked "native" WMS. The blood sugar levels were similar between groups, leading the researchers to give the WMS a glycemic index rating of 90.

[The Titan99]

I'm just looking to avoid this insulin reaction business. I can't buy dextrose here from my supplement dealer. Could I just add sugar to my WMS? If so, how much?

[M302_Imola]

I'm just looking to avoid this insulin reaction business. I can't buy dextrose here from my supplement dealer. Could I just add sugar to my WMS? If so, how much?

Yes you can...amount is something you will have to play around with and will very. I would start on the high side then work your way down.

Also, briansvk thanks for posting that about WMS. That avy pic is bad ass!

[The Titan99]

Yes you can...amount is something you will have to play around with and will very. I would start on the high side then work your way down.

Also, briansvk thanks for posting that about WMS. That avy pic is bad ass!

I got this Thai drink mix that they mix soda water and ice to make this sickly sweet drink. Like a poor man's Fanta. Anyway,it's sweetened with corn syrup which I beleive is dextrose? Anyway, I figure on mixing 2 shots of that stuff with my WMS, creatine and Glutamine. If it works Ican taper back, if not I'm sure a follow up shot or 2 should do the trick.

[briansvk]

Also, briansvk thanks for posting that about WMS. That avy pic is bad ass!

You are welcome There are more pics from prep and stage in here http://forums.steroid.com/members-pi...1week-out.html
Check it out if you want :P

[Bonaparte]

FFS stop using waxy maize!!!!
The whole appeal of the stuff is that it is a carbohydrate that will not spike blood glucose levels.
If you don't have any excess glucose in your bloodstream when you take that insulin, your BGL will drop and you'll become hypoglycemic.

Maxy maize is fine if you are trying to take in carbs without increasing BGL, but when using slin, you need to take in something that will (like straight glucose or another simple carb that is easily converted to glucose).

[The Titan99]

So this stuff (corn syrup, cherry flavored) mixed with creatine/glutamine/whey protein etc.? Correction, it says it's made from refined sugar. I suppose that breaks down to glucose fairly well.

[OnTheSauce]

Should be ok