The E2 Miracle - Voodoo

[kelkel]

I was 47 with no ai then .05 mg twice a week crashed my e2 to under 3. Stopped all ai and 6 weeks later 33. I'm sure i'm probably back around 47 now but I'm unsure what to do. Is there other alternatives like the old 6-oxo that Patrick Arnold created?

DIM, Zinc, Copper.

[2Sox]

DIM, Zinc, Copper.

OH how I would love for this to work for me! They didn't and I still wonder why. Should I try it again? I just don't know if I should even bother. Other opinions?

Low T, I just want to make sure I understand your post correctly. Are you saying that this voodoo crashed E2 is brought on by self medicating and one cause is a patient not telling or lying to his practionter?

I'm glad many men don't need an AI. Can you tell us about what percentage this is? Sadly, I don't seem to fall into this category.

A little story: I'm on about 105mg T Cyp/week (15mg/day) 100iu hCG/day. Each week, I try to put off my Aromasin dose as long as I can. Day 5 came and symptoms gradually started - loss of evening and morning erections, decrease in libido. Took 12.5mg that afternoon, Thursday (7 days from my last dose). More fatigued than usual on Friday (though I slept well). In the gym on Saturday I was dragging my ass, BIG time. Took 6.25mg right there in the gym (Friday), (I happened to be carrying my pill bottle in my bag.) The next day I felt like Superman. A day later my staff started to stiffen and OH those sensitive nipples! LOVE it! (I won't elaborate.)

My imagination? I highly doubt it. The placebo effect? Horse shit. I felt BETTER. My conclusion: I need an AI - and more often than E7D. I'm starting 12.5mg E5D. Do you think I'm missing something?

[Low Testosterone]

OH how I would love for this to work for me! They didn't and I still wonder why. Should I try it again? I just don't know if I should even bother. Other opinions?

Low T, I just want to make sure I understand your post correctly. Are you saying that this voodoo crashed E2 is brought on by self medicating and one cause is a patient not telling or lying to his practionter?

I'm glad many men don't need an AI. Can you tell us about what percentage this is? Sadly, I don't seem to fall into this category.

A little story: I'm on about 105mg T Cyp/week (15mg/day) 100iu hCG/day. Each week, I try to put off my Aromasin dose as long as I can. Day 5 came and symptoms gradually started - loss of evening and morning erections, decrease in libido. Took 12.5mg that afternoon, Thursday (7 days from my last dose). More fatigued than usual on Friday (though I slept well). In the gym on Saturday I was dragging my ass, BIG time. Took .25mg right there in the gym (Friday), (I happened to be carrying my pill bottle in my bag.) The next day I felt like Superman. A day later my staff started to stiffen and OH those sensitive nipples! LOVE it! (I won't elaborate.)

My imagination? I highly doubt it. The placebo effect? Horse shit. I felt BETTER. My conclusion: I need an AI - and more often than E7D. I'm starting 12.5mg E5D. Do you think I'm missing something?

Yes, I'm saying the crashed E2 is due to the patient doing whatever he wants and not telling his doctor. You'd be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't be) how many guys self-medicate an AI but actually have no idea what the purpose of an AI is for. Once their E2 levels crash and they feel like crap, they blame the doctor. Some guys you can talk to about it and explain things, but many simply won't listen. I blame this on the internet. The net has been the single worst and best thing for TRT. It's the worst because it tends to promote a lot of bad ideas and misunderstandings, but it's the best because it also promotes the opposite of that...don't get me wrong, overall it's a good thing.

In my opinion, when you don't allow things to settle and even out, it's hard to know what's going on inside you. For example, if you take an AI based on how you feel that's not necessarily a good thing. I'm referring to taking one on this day, not on these days because you feel good and then one day taking one because you don't feel as good. First and foremost, even on perfect TRT, all the numbers are perfect, you're going to have days you feel better than others, that's just life. That is true with or without TRT. Secondly, you're never allowing your body to normalize, to get used to anything. I'd rather see someone stick to a schedule, a set schedule every week and after a time adjust things if needed based on that. Going all over the place with medications is never a good idea, again back to the normalization concept.

Another important note regarding E2 and something you eluded to, libido. Very low E2 can crush your libido, that's a given. It's also assumed that high E2 can as well, but how high? Check out this thread with Nelson Vergel discussing Testosterone, Estradiol and Libido. Should provide somethings to think about:

High Estradiol Boosts Libido in Men on Testosterone Therapy

[2Sox]

Yes, I'm saying the crashed E2 is due to the patient doing whatever he wants and not telling his doctor. You'd be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't be) how many guys self-medicate an AI but actually have no idea what the purpose of an AI is for. Once their E2 levels crash and they feel like crap, they blame the doctor. Some guys you can talk to about it and explain things, but many simply won't listen. I blame this on the internet. The net has been the single worst and best thing for TRT. It's the worst because it tends to promote a lot of bad ideas and misunderstandings, but it's the best because it also promotes the opposite of that...don't get me wrong, overall it's a good thing.

In my opinion, when you don't allow things to settle and even out, it's hard to know what's going on inside you. For example, if you take an AI based on how you feel that's not necessarily a good thing. I'm referring to taking one on this day, not on these days because you feel good and then one day taking one because you don't feel as good. First and foremost, even on perfect TRT, all the numbers are perfect, you're going to have days you feel better than others, that's just life. That is true with or without TRT. Secondly, you're never allowing your body to normalize, to get used to anything. I'd rather see someone stick to a schedule, a set schedule every week and after a time adjust things if needed based on that. Going all over the place with medications is never a good idea, again back to the normalization concept.

Another important note regarding E2 and something you eluded to, libido. Very low E2 can crush your libido, that's a given. It's also assumed that high E2 can as well, but how high? Check out this thread with Nelson Vergel discussing Testosterone, Estradiol and Libido. Should provide somethings to think about:

High Estradiol Boosts Libido in Men on Testosterone Therapy

This is very wise counsel. I'd like to ask a few questions about what you say here and give some anecdotes to illustrate.

I started on patches and then Androgel. Felt absolutely fantastic within days. In a few weeks, I felt like I was in my youth. A few months go by and I'm feeling pretty poorly. My education through reading and on this forum coincided with what was going on. I decided to do shots. Went to Ageless Mens Health in NYC. Started me on 100mg T Cyp once a week and .5mg adex twice weekly. Felt like crap every time I took that ai along with my shot. Didn't know enough at the time to realize that it was the ai that was lowering my E2 and that's why I felt like crap. Did this for a month then stopped.
Continued my TRT education.

Went back to gels and decided to use the Adex along with it. It was a new day for me! Libido and energy came back immediately. I felt great. Self medicating? Yes. Told my doctor about this? No But insisted on the estradiol sensitive each time I visited the office and my E2 was always in range.

Thank you Internet for making this possible!

My question: Should I have let things go for a few months to have things "even out" as you suggest? In other words, should I have just let myself feel like shit for a few months just to see how things work out? No thanks. I did my homework. Lots of it. I educated myself. It's not scientific method by a long shot but my thinking goes: Well, I took an ai and I felt better right away. When I stopped the ai, I felt like shit again. It must be the ai - not coincidence. I think I'll continue treating with an ai.
I'm exceedingly aware that the body is static and changes day to day. I ALWAYS have this in my mind when I consider my treatment options. Nevertheless, I have come to these conclusions.


My present doctor who is an internist and TRT "specialist" does not write for ai's right off. He keeps an eye on prolactin, progesterone, and of course estradiol. I was shocked recently that he actually wrote me a script for Aromasin when I asked. A year ago he had dismissed estradiol and ai's. "If your nipples don't hurt, don't worry about it." Wanna take a guess why his office changed? The INTERNET. And all the guys asking him the same questions I was asking.

Low T, I don't know how many guys who come to your office that are lazy and sadly lacking in education on the subject of TRT. But I bet there are plenty. And I'd also bet THESE are the guys who blame you for their condition when they crash their estrogen. And before I read Vergel's article a FYI about me and E2. When my E2 goes above the high 30's or into the 40s, I don't feel much like a functioning man with a healthy libido and an acceptable energy level. That's not the way I want to live my life.